Top Law Schools

If you go to LSN and check out (for example) UVA, you will see Waitlists even for very qualified people during the most recent cycles. see here: http://uva.lawschoolnumbers.com/stats/1011/ - Why do you think UVA does this? This isn't exclusive to UVA, of course. I checked other schools and the same is true. For example, I'm seeing 4.0/177 get rejected from UVA in the 2010 cycle. Any thoughts?

Fake numbers, YP, or criminal

justonemoregame wrote:Fake numbers, YP, or criminal

Half of the people use fake numbers, are a criminal, or YP? (Not sure what YP means)

I don't know about the WLs, but they could reject someone with 4.0 / 177 if they thought there is no way in hell they are going to attend. I suspect they WL some people for similar reasons - that they figure the chances of them attending are lower than other candidates they straight admit.

justonemoregame wrote:I don't know about the WLs, but they could reject someone with 4.0 / 177 if they thought there is no way in hell they are going to attend. I suspect they WL some people for similar reasons - that they figure the chances of them attending are lower than other candidates they straight admit.

That's what I originally thought. It makes sense from a "gaming the UNSWR" prospective. I don't know, though. The more I look at these numbers, the more I think I need to ED.

ercmilla wrote:If you go to LSN and check out (for example) UVA, you will see Waitlists even for very qualified people during the most recent cycles. see here: http://uva.lawschoolnumbers.com/stats/1011/ - Why do you think UVA does this? This isn't exclusive to UVA, of course. I checked other schools and the same is true. For example, I'm seeing 4.0/177 get rejected from UVA in the 2010 cycle. Any thoughts?

Because no one with a 4.0/177 is going to attend UVA anyway, so they may as well reject them?
(let's assume most of them haven't fucked themselves by being a criminal, cheating, or having a really, really bad Personal Statement or LOR)

As someone thinking of applying to UVA and with nowhere near those numbers, that's kind of odd.

Out of curiosity, why wouldn't the committee admit the person with a full scholarship to try to entice them into attending?

I was going to ask what "YP" was too?

its LSN. people can make shit up and you also aren't privy to their circumstances. its an anomaly, it is just and only that. who cares?

Grant it your numbers are outstanding and HYS level for sure, isn't it a little egotistical to make a thread about getting rejected at one of the best law schools in the country?

jwinaz wrote:As someone thinking of applying to UVA and with nowhere near those numbers, that's kind of odd.

Out of curiosity, why wouldn't the committee admit the person with a full scholarship to try to entice them into attending?

I was going to ask what "YP" was too?

YP is yield protection. It happens because 2.5% of a school's USNWR ranking is based on how many people who apply to the school are rejected. If someone with outrageous numbers applies and isn't likely to attend, they can be rejected to decrease the acceptance rate.

If a school's medians are 170/3.86 (UVA), a 180/4.33 will increase the median just as much as a 171/3.96. Why bother admitting the 180/4.33 when it's clear they will be admitted to HYS/CCN$$$$ and attend there instead?

Br3v wrote:Grant it your numbers are outstanding and HYS level for sure, isn't it a little egotistical to make a thread about getting rejected at one of the best law schools in the country?

Those aren't OP's numbers.

TripTrip wrote:

Br3v wrote:Grant it your numbers are outstanding and HYS level for sure, isn't it a little egotistical to make a thread about getting rejected at one of the best law schools in the country?

Those aren't OP's numbers.

I take back my passive aggressive rant then.

TripTrip wrote:

jwinaz wrote:As someone thinking of applying to UVA and with nowhere near those numbers, that's kind of odd.

Out of curiosity, why wouldn't the committee admit the person with a full scholarship to try to entice them into attending?

I was going to ask what "YP" was too?

YP is yield protection. It happens because 2.5% of a school's USNWR ranking is based on how many people who apply to the school are rejected. If someone with outrageous numbers applies and isn't likely to attend, they can be rejected to decrease the acceptance rate.

If a school's medians are 170/3.86 (UVA), a 180/4.33 will increase the median just as much as a 171/3.96. Why bother admitting the 180/4.33 when it's clear they will be admitted to HYS/CCN$$$$ and attend there instead?

Ok, thank you.

Although, it isn't entirely clear to me that a 177/4.0 wouldn't attend UVA on a full scholarship. If the rankings and outcome difference between UVA and, say, NYU, Penn, Chicago, Columbia and Berkeley (where they presumably also got a full ride or at least partial) isn't that much and the individual felt there were cost of living savings associated with living in Charlottesville versus a big city (and possibly other factors like being closer to family or a spouse, etc.), then I wouldn't see why a person would rule out UVA on a full ride.

I would think it more obvious and much much more likely that UVA would be ruled out if that person attained HYS on a full ride. Then, it would be insane to attend UVA instead. However, if the competition was CCN and PB, then I wouldn't rule UVA out.

Br3v wrote:Grant it your numbers are outstanding and HYS level for sure, isn't it a little egotistical to make a thread about getting rejected at one of the best law schools in the country?

Granted*

jwinaz wrote: Ok, thank you.

Although, it isn't entirely clear to me that a 177/4.0 wouldn't attend UVA on a full scholarship. If the rankings and outcome difference between UVA and, say, NYU, Penn, Chicago, Columbia and Berkeley (where they presumably also got a full ride or at least partial) isn't that much and the individual felt there were cost of living savings associated with living in Charlottesville versus a big city (and possibly other factors like being closer to family or a spouse, etc.), then I wouldn't see why a person would rule out UVA on a full ride.

I would think it more obvious and much much more likely that UVA would be ruled out if that person attained HYS on a full ride. Then, it would be insane to attend UVA instead. However, if the competition was CCN and PB, then I wouldn't rule UVA out.

Sure, a 177/4.0 might attend UVA. That's why people with those numbers write a "Why UVA" essay: so they don't get YP'd.

FYI there's no such thing as an HYS full ride.

Poor people get HYS full rides.

InGoodFaith wrote:Poor people get HYS full rides.

Credited. The bottom 5% at Harvard, the bottom 2% at Stanford, and one lonely student at Yale.

InGoodFaith wrote:Poor people get HYS full rides.

Only if they have kids.

TripTrip wrote:

InGoodFaith wrote:Poor people get HYS full rides.

Credited. The bottom 5% at Harvard, the bottom 2% at Stanford, and one lonely student at Yale.

I never looked at HS, but at yale, they give need based scholarships to poors and after you graduate they'll cover your student loan payments if you earn less than $60k

stillwater wrote:its LSN. people can make shit up and you also aren't privy to their circumstances. its an anomaly, it is just and only that. who cares?

It's far from an anomaly. I used an example of 4.0/177 and probably shouldn't have. Everyone go to UVA (or any other big t14 school) and check out all those yellow dots from 2010-2011. Its wild how many waitlists there are within UVA's "hot zone". I know that's two years ago, but the other years look rather similar.

ercmilla wrote:

stillwater wrote:its LSN. people can make shit up and you also aren't privy to their circumstances. its an anomaly, it is just and only that. who cares?

It's far from an anomaly. I used an example of 4.0/177 and probably shouldn't have. Everyone go to UVA (or any other big t14 school) and check out all those yellow dots from 2010-2011. Its wild how many waitlists there are within UVA's "hot zone". I know that's two years ago, but the other years look rather similar.

And as a heavy splitter, what you need to take away from this is that if you really want UVA for some reason, you should ED.

ChampagnePapi wrote:

ercmilla wrote:

stillwater wrote:its LSN. people can make shit up and you also aren't privy to their circumstances. its an anomaly, it is just and only that. who cares?

It's far from an anomaly. I used an example of 4.0/177 and probably shouldn't have. Everyone go to UVA (or any other big t14 school) and check out all those yellow dots from 2010-2011. Its wild how many waitlists there are within UVA's "hot zone". I know that's two years ago, but the other years look rather similar.

And as a heavy splitter, what you need to take away from this is that if you really want UVA for some reason, you should ED.

I've come to this conclusion as well. Next cycle, I'm going to ED Penn, then ED UVA if I don't get Penn. I might reverse the order, but essentially that's my plan.

ercmilla wrote:

ChampagnePapi wrote:

ercmilla wrote:

stillwater wrote:its LSN. people can make shit up and you also aren't privy to their circumstances. its an anomaly, it is just and only that. who cares?

It's far from an anomaly. I used an example of 4.0/177 and probably shouldn't have. Everyone go to UVA (or any other big t14 school) and check out all those yellow dots from 2010-2011. Its wild how many waitlists there are within UVA's "hot zone". I know that's two years ago, but the other years look rather similar.

And as a heavy splitter, what you need to take away from this is that if you really want UVA for some reason, you should ED.

I've come to this conclusion as well. Next cycle, I'm going to ED Penn, then ED UVA if I don't get Penn. I might reverse the order, but essentially that's my plan.

You may also consider applying this year. See what happens - maybe they accept you RD and even throw some money your way. You can always defer if you have to (though they usually don't defer scholarships). That way if you get WL'ed and don't get off in the summer you'll be more certain ED is the right choice

Where is the source for HLS full ride possibility? I was told the maximum possible need based award is $33K (class of 2013).
Also, I got WL'd at either UVA or UPenn with similar numbers (3.9/177).

Hattori Hanzo wrote:Where is the source for HLS full ride possibility? I was told the maximum possible need based award is $33K (class of 2013).
Also, I got WL'd at either UVA or UPenn with similar numbers (3.9/177).

From what I've gathered through my sparse reading on the subject, they limit the amount of debt you can take on in a given year and give out grants to cover any expense that remains once you've hit that debt limit in loans. (If you're poor)


I don't know what the real numbers are but this is how I'd imagine a "full ride" is possible:

COA for 1 year: 70k
Total debt allowed for year: 40k
Grant awarded past debt: 30k
Tuition: 45k

So it shows up on the ABA data website as a grant amount above half tuition but below full tuition.


Now one of the ways in which your COA can be adjusted is if you have kids.
So something like:
COA for 1 year: 88k (Because of kids)
Total debt allowed for year: 40k
Grant awarded past debt: 48k
Tuition: 45k

Now ABA reports the grant amount as greater than the tuition amount, which leads us to believe said person received a full ride + stipend or so at the school in question.



Please correct me if I'm wrong as this information is based on my memory of already very light research conducted on the subject.


Source is the ABA data on LSAC
This is for HLS