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Typical LS Graduate Age? Does Your UG School Really Matter?
Posted: Fri Oct 12, 2012 10:16 pm
by John Mill
So I'm 22 and currently in my first year of undergrad. I would up dropping out of high school in my senior year due to a personal tragedy, then getting my GED a few years later. I took four years off before starting college to work and save up a bit of money. Although before anybody says it my WE wont count for much, I just cooked and waited tables at my family's restaurant, nothing that will impress anybody at admissions.
So my goal, like so many others here, is a T14 school and eventually big law. I'm going to be starting law school at age 26-27 and graduating at 29-30. I was just wondering if anybody could tell me how much age really matters in big law, and where the cutoff point really is? Will my age wind up hurting me at all? I searched for this question online and got a lot of differing answers, and none of them all that satisfying.
Also I'm currently going to Westfield State, which is basically a random state college nobody has ever heard of outside western MA. At the moment I'm pretty happy here because its a 45 minute drive from my house, so I can live at home and save money while I'm going to school. Does my UG school make a difference if applying to the T14? Particularly if the upper T14 is my goal then should I be trying to transfer to a more prestigious UG or am I safe where I am now?
Thank you for taking the time to read my questions, and any insight I can get is much appreciated!
Re: Typical LS Graduate Age? Does Your UG School Really Matter?
Posted: Fri Oct 12, 2012 10:25 pm
by Swimp
I'll be 27 when I matriculate, so I've done a little reading on this subject and from what I've seen, age can be a factor in employment, but not really at my age (or the age you'll be). Some employers apparently like hiring more experienced employees. That you worked at a restaurant isn't that important. It's just that you know what it's like to work a job full time.
As for the name of your school, I guess a more recognizable name would be better in some really insignificant sense, but its mostly your GPA that matters. Any time you spend worrying about transferring would likely be better spent ensuring you get the best grades you can. Or having fun. Nobody likes a burnout.
Re: Typical LS Graduate Age? Does Your UG School Really Matter?
Posted: Fri Oct 12, 2012 10:43 pm
by kalvano
Neither your age nor your undergraduate school will matter.
/ end thread, except it won't.
Re: Typical LS Graduate Age? Does Your UG School Really Matter?
Posted: Fri Oct 12, 2012 10:52 pm
by John Mill
Alright that's good to know. Puts at least one big regret of not going back to school earlier at ease.
@Kalvano Love your icon btw. Im still hoping to see Vic's actor on Sons of Anarchy eventually
Re: Typical LS Graduate Age? Does Your UG School Really Matter?
Posted: Fri Oct 12, 2012 11:30 pm
by Total Litigator
Yes, when we are talking T14 employers, your undergrad will make at least some difference come OCI, and yes, even at admissions. I think the most ridiculous TLS myth is that it doesn't make any difference.
Re: Typical LS Graduate Age? Does Your UG School Really Matter?
Posted: Fri Oct 12, 2012 11:35 pm
by Ruxin1
Total Litigator wrote:Yes, when we are talking T14 employers, your undergrad will make at least some difference come OCI, and yes, even at admissions. I think the most ridiculous TLS myth is that it doesn't make any difference.
T14 employers lol
Re: Typical LS Graduate Age? Does Your UG School Really Matter?
Posted: Fri Oct 12, 2012 11:49 pm
by jarofsoup
After going through OCI I do think that undergraduate matters...Some schools have very strong alumni networks, some schools lend prestige....the market is very competitive. EVERYTHING MATTERS...but for law school admissions I do not believe they really care.
Re: Typical LS Graduate Age? Does Your UG School Really Matter?
Posted: Sat Oct 13, 2012 12:03 am
by Kurst
John Mill wrote:I'm currently going to Westfield State, which is basically a random state college nobody has ever heard of outside western MA. Does my UG school make a difference if applying to the T14? Particularly if the upper T14 is my goal then should I be trying to transfer to a more prestigious UG or am I safe where I am now?
Re: Typical LS Graduate Age? Does Your UG School Really Matter?
Posted: Sat Oct 13, 2012 12:11 am
by Total Litigator
Ruxin1 wrote:Total Litigator wrote:Yes, when we are talking T14 employers, your undergrad will make at least some difference come OCI, and yes, even at admissions. I think the most ridiculous TLS myth is that it doesn't make any difference.
T14 employers lol
Employers who recruit at T14 OCI's.... I would also qualify my earlier statement that it also matters at any sort of law school, insofar as going to an undergrad with ties to the law school region will help you establish those all important ties to secondary markets that employers look for (but that is not relevant to the issue of undergrad 'rank').
And yeah, it matters a whole lot less at the admissions level, but it would unwise to completely discount it...
Re: Typical LS Graduate Age? Does Your UG School Really Matter?
Posted: Sat Oct 13, 2012 10:11 am
by John Mill
Kurst wrote:John Mill wrote:I'm currently going to Westfield State, which is basically a random state college nobody has ever heard of outside western MA. Does my UG school make a difference if applying to the T14? Particularly if the upper T14 is my goal then should I be trying to transfer to a more prestigious UG or am I safe where I am now?
I believe I said in the OP that I already did a search. All of those have people giving multiple answers, just like in this thread, and I haven't been lurking long enough to know who's opinion is credible and who's isn't :/
EDIT: Particularly I'm concerned about Columbia. People seem to think that they do care about you'r UG, and thats one of my dream schools, so I'm still not sure if I should think about a transfer or not.
Re: Typical LS Graduate Age? Does Your UG School Really Matter?
Posted: Sat Oct 13, 2012 10:29 am
by Tom Joad
Seems like the higher up a school is ranked, the greater the percentage of students that come from good undergrads. Obviously a lot of it is just because lots of smart people go to good undergrads. But T14 schools have lots of students from bad undergrads too. I think a person's undergrad really only helps at the very margins (ie to distinguish between people with the same LSAT/GPA). I certainly wouldn't take on any additional debt to go to a different school if it was solely to help your law school admissions.
Re: Typical LS Graduate Age? Does Your UG School Really Matter?
Posted: Sat Oct 13, 2012 10:31 am
by aroquentin
John Mill wrote:Kurst wrote:John Mill wrote:I'm currently going to Westfield State, which is basically a random state college nobody has ever heard of outside western MA. Does my UG school make a difference if applying to the T14? Particularly if the upper T14 is my goal then should I be trying to transfer to a more prestigious UG or am I safe where I am now?
I believe I said in the OP that I already did a search. All of those have people giving multiple answers, just like in this thread, and I haven't been lurking long enough to know who's opinion is credible and who's isn't :/
Doesn't want your Socratic elenchus bullshit. Just tell Thrasymachus the answers so he'll have his T14.
Re: Typical LS Graduate Age? Does Your UG School Really Matter?
Posted: Sat Oct 13, 2012 10:42 am
by John Mill
The most general answer seems to be that if it does make a difference its only a small one to distinguish between people on the border. So I guess it would only really effect me much in reach schools. Thank you everybody for your help.
Re: Typical LS Graduate Age? Does Your UG School Really Matter?
Posted: Sat Oct 13, 2012 11:02 am
by IAFG
Total Litigator wrote:Yes, when we are talking T14 employers, your undergrad will make at least some difference come OCI, and yes, even at admissions. I think the most ridiculous TLS myth is that it doesn't make any difference.
When we're talking admissions, people have been saying for the past 5-6 years that I have been lurking on TLS that it makes a difference, and no one has been able to substantiate it. If you go look at the "unlikely" green triangles on LSN for Columbia (OP's school of interest) for last cycle, they're URMs.
If we're talking about employment, UG being helpful is widely conceded.
Re: Typical LS Graduate Age? Does Your UG School Really Matter?
Posted: Sat Oct 13, 2012 11:20 am
by John Mill
IAFG wrote:
If we're talking about employment, UG being helpful is widely conceded.
Wait I'm kind of confused what you mean by that. Do you mean that the stance that UG is helpful is conceded, or that people concede that UG is in fact helpful?
Re: Typical LS Graduate Age? Does Your UG School Really Matter?
Posted: Sat Oct 13, 2012 11:25 am
by Br3v
Can you transfer to Harvard Yale or Princeton? Ok then transferring would have no effect and be a waste of money.
Re: Typical LS Graduate Age? Does Your UG School Really Matter?
Posted: Sat Oct 13, 2012 11:25 am
by aroquentin
John Mill wrote:IAFG wrote:
If we're talking about employment, UG being helpful is widely conceded.
Wait I'm kind of confused what you mean by that. Do you mean that the stance that UG is helpful is conceded, or that people concede that UG is in fact helpful?
What's your LSAT score? Sounds tautologous.
Re: Typical LS Graduate Age? Does Your UG School Really Matter?
Posted: Sat Oct 13, 2012 7:49 pm
by Swimp
John Mill wrote:IAFG wrote:
If we're talking about employment, UG being helpful is widely conceded.
Wait I'm kind of confused what you mean by that. Do you mean that the stance that UG is helpful is
conceited, or that people concede that UG is in fact helpful?
ftfy
Re: Typical LS Graduate Age? Does Your UG School Really Matter?
Posted: Sat Oct 13, 2012 10:17 pm
by John Mill
Swimp wrote:John Mill wrote:IAFG wrote:
If we're talking about employment, UG being helpful is widely conceded.
Wait I'm kind of confused what you mean by that. Do you mean that the stance that UG is helpful is
conceited, or that people concede that UG is in fact helpful?
ftfy
Hahaha
Re: Typical LS Graduate Age? Does Your UG School Really Matter?
Posted: Sun Oct 14, 2012 12:54 am
by aroquentin
Swimp wrote:John Mill wrote:IAFG wrote:
If we're talking about employment, UG being helpful is widely conceded.
Wait I'm kind of confused what you mean by that. Do you mean that the stance that UG is helpful is
conceited, or that people concede that UG is in fact helpful?
ftfy
Thanks. I had to assure myself I wasn't dealing with a paradox for a minute before I could respond.
Re: Typical LS Graduate Age? Does Your UG School Really Matter?
Posted: Sun Oct 14, 2012 10:03 am
by John Mill
@aroquentin
Did somebody leave you alone with your mothers thesaurus or something?
Re: Typical LS Graduate Age? Does Your UG School Really Matter?
Posted: Sun Oct 14, 2012 10:20 am
by mr.hands
John Mill wrote:@aroquentin
Did somebody leave you alone with your mothers thesaurus or something?
Lol +1
Re: Typical LS Graduate Age? Does Your UG School Really Matter?
Posted: Sun Oct 14, 2012 11:24 am
by cubswin
John Mill wrote:IAFG wrote:
If we're talking about employment, UG being helpful is widely conceded.
Wait I'm kind of confused what you mean by that. Do you mean that the stance that UG is helpful is conceded, or that people concede that UG is in fact helpful?
You're over-thinking this man. When it comes to legal hiring, your grades get you considered and then a bunch of other factors come into play. No one is going to give you a job simply because you went to Princeton, but you're kidding yourself if you don't think it makes some interviewers think you're a more appealing candidate. That said, a non-elite UG isn't going to hurt you most of the time. It all depends on how snobby your interviewer is about UGs. You'll interview with people from all different levels of UGs and law schools at OCI. The Princeton BA Yale JD might sneer at you a bit more, but I interviewed with people at very respectable firms who were from kind of crappy law schools.
Re: Typical LS Graduate Age? Does Your UG School Really Matter?
Posted: Sun Oct 14, 2012 5:29 pm
by aroquentin
mr.hands wrote:John Mill wrote:@aroquentin
Did somebody leave you alone with your mothers thesaurus or something?
Lol +1
Because I thought it was a tautology? No, but I was left alone with my mother's logic book, which states:
Tautology (Taut):
p :: (p ยท p)
p :: (p v p)
Your disjunction would take the second form. Sorry, I thought people headed to law school do this sort of thing. I was out of line and I apologize.
Re: Typical LS Graduate Age? Does Your UG School Really Matter?
Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 7:10 pm
by ksllaw
Hi.
What would you guys consider a good UG? Top 25? Top 50? Top 75?
Would U Wisc-Madison be good enough to matter in a postiive way? Or bad enough to either hurt or not matter?
(ETA: Not that it would matter much, but I spent summer school at Stanford one year...can't really list that I'm guessing.)