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As some of you may know from previous posts of mine, I am waiting on replies from schools in the NYC area.
I was a good student in undergrad as a History/Polisci Major/Minor.

The thing is, I am reflecting on my undergrad and believe that I probably was kind of gunnerish, but, since it was UG, I was rewarded for it in various ways. Then again, the types of discussions we had in UG might have even encouraged gunnery.

I don't think I'm a pompous airbag. In UG, I really always tried to make my answers concise if they were too complex, so as not to wax on and annoy people.
How can I make sure to approach law school classes differently? I want to make good answers, but not jerk ones.
How are LS and UG gunnery differentiated? Save an at risk 0L....

If you're a douche, you'll be a douche. Not much you can do.

Just realize that gunning doesn't mean you'll have the grades, and if you're the gunner with mediocre grades, people are going to seriously not like you.

Only gunners I can deal with are the ones with top grades, because at least they're putting up the numbers (grades).

Limit yourself to one in-class participation per day.

Ask questions, don't just raise your hand to air your [stupid fucking] opinions.

I hate the term gunner because it implies there is something wrong with striving to do your best and understand the material.

I agree that you shouldn't just raise your hand to make irrelevant comments, but if what works best for you and helps you understand the material is participating in class (asking relevant questions, answering when no one else is to move the class along) then do your thing.

In terms of just how much I speak during class, I could easily be called a gunner. I truly believe that my participation doesn't slow the class down and if anything actually helps the discussion. But even if that wasn't the case, I would keep doing what I'm doing because I know it worked for me first semester.

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Just don't be a douche and you'll be fine. Here are a few signs that you're being a douche: (1) asking irrelevant questions; (2) asking questions regarding tangential points that are clearly not important; (3) asking questions concerning absurd hypothetical facts that you've created; etc. Also, be conscious of the tone in which you speak. And don't purport to act like you know anything.

Also, as the above-poster mentioned, watch for how your classmates react to your comments. This will provide a general insight as to how your remarks are regarded by your peers. If you continue to raise your hand and your professor ignores you, that is also a sign that you're a douche.

This advice may be easier to heed if you just keep in mind that top 10%, LR, and a V5 SA don't mean shit when you don't have any friends.

Just keep your mouth shut. Whatever you think is worthless to all of us. Remember that, and you will not be a gunner.

I find it quite uncharitable that the impulse to contribute one's own insight to class or clarify matters is being characterized as "douchey." Perhaps one needs to curb back on one's remarks, or use more discretion, but I bet that, in most cases, this desire doesn't come from douchiness, but from a genuine excitement and interest in the material. I feel bad for whoever's experience leads them to think that wanting to contribute in class is inherently a bad thing.

It's fine to ask or respond to questions occasionally. Some profs reserve the right to add 10% to your grade for class participation. Try to remember that your classmates are not paying to be taught by you.

Volake wrote:I find it quite uncharitable that the impulse to contribute one's own insight to class or clarify matters is being characterized as "douchey." Perhaps one needs to curb back on one's remarks, or use more discretion, but I bet that most of this desire doesn't come from douchiness, but from a genuine excitement and interest in the material. I feel bad for whoever's experience leads them to think that wanting to contribute in class is inherently a bad thing.

you're not getting it

mighttransfer wrote:Just don't be a douche and you'll be fine. Here are a few signs that you're being a douche: (1) asking irrelevant questions; (2) asking questions regarding tangential points that are clearly not important; (3) asking questions concerning absurd hypothetical facts that you've created; etc. Also, be conscious of the tone in which you speak. And don't purport to act like you know anything.

Also, as the above-poster mentioned, watch for how your classmates react to your comments. This will provide a general insight as to how your remarks are regarded by your peers. If you continue to raise your hand and your professor ignores you, that is also a sign that you're a douche.

TCR

Answer when called on: short, sweet, and to the point. Answer when you can't stand the gunners and idiots in the class wasting your time anymore: hand up, answer shorter, sweeter, and nearly monosyballic. Ie: "because of the 4th amendment." nothing more.

Gunners don't worry about being gunners.

Volake wrote:I find it quite uncharitable that the impulse to contribute one's own insight to class or clarify matters is being characterized as "douchey." Perhaps one needs to curb back on one's remarks, or use more discretion, but I bet that most of this desire doesn't come from douchiness, but from a genuine excitement and interest in the material. I feel bad for whoever's experience leads them to think that wanting to contribute in class is inherently a bad thing.

Too easy.

Cupidity wrote:Just keep your mouth shut. Whatever you think is worthless to all of us. Remember that, and you will not be a gunner.

+1

Blind grading dude blind grading.

shoeshine wrote:Gunners don't worry about being gunners.

Came here to say this.

Volake wrote:I find it quite uncharitable that the impulse to contribute one's own insight to class or clarify matters is being characterized as "douchey." Perhaps one needs to curb back on one's remarks, or use more discretion, but I bet that most of this desire doesn't come from douchiness, but from a genuine excitement and interest in the material. I feel bad for whoever's experience leads them to think that wanting to contribute in class is inherently a bad thing.

0L. You never sat through an entire year of hearing the three same people raise their hand every class, act like they're smarter than everyone, and argue with the prof for no other reason than just wanting to be right.

If you are posting this, you will be a gunner.

Just don't raise your hand unless the professor is clearly looking for someone to raise their hand and he won't move on until someone does. And even then, only raise your hand when you think it'll move the class along, not because you want to add an anecdote about your parents' careers, or your pre-law-school research (I don't give a shit if it's relevant experience), or disagree with the professor, etc. The key to avoiding gunnerdom is to understand that you have nothing of value to add and that nobody wants to listen to your voice.

Don't worry about seeming gunnery if you get cold called. Just pay attention to what you're saying and be willing to concede to the professor instead of arguing every little thing, and don't assume every question is a trick. Really your goal in law school should be: be silent, and when that's not possible be brief.

Don't worry about it. All you need is a little self-awareness, which it seems you have.

victortsoi wrote:As some of you may know from previous posts of mine, I am waiting on replies from schools in the NYC area.
I was a good student in undergrad as a History/Polisci Major/Minor.

The thing is, I am reflecting on my undergrad and believe that I probably was kind of gunnerish, but, since it was UG, I was rewarded for it in various ways. Then again, the types of discussions we had in UG might have even encouraged gunnery.

I don't think I'm a pompous airbag. In UG, I really always tried to make my answers concise if they were too complex, so as not to wax on and annoy people.
How can I make sure to approach law school classes differently? I want to make good answers, but not jerk ones.
How are LS and UG gunnery differentiated? Save an at risk 0L....

Just don't be a douche. Raise your hand if you have something to say that contributes to the class discussion, if the professor asks. Make concision a priority. If you want to be a gasbag and impress the professor, go to office hours instead of derailing a lecture.

That's it. Nothing wrong with a student who's done the reading making a brief comment every so often. If you're worried about what people think, screw em. Some people at my school labeled gunners deserve the title, some don't. A lot of people seem to conflate working hard and participating with "gunnering." Ignore them. Just refrain from being a douchebag.

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Bildungsroman wrote:Just don't raise your hand unless the professor is clearly looking for someone to raise their hand and he won't move on until someone does.

Ah shit.

3|ink wrote:

Bildungsroman wrote:Just don't raise your hand unless the professor is clearly looking for someone to raise their hand and he won't move on until someone does.

Ah shit.

That still makes you a gunner. Don't participate unless called on ever.