Top Law Schools

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Since you're so borderline at CCN, I would ED.

The difference in employment prospects are more than worth ~50K. If we're talking about fullride versus sticker that's a different story, but as it is, ED.

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And does anyone disagree with the financial aid calculus?

Chicago & Columbia are worth more than $54,000 over 3 years at Michigan, in my opinion.

CanadianWolf wrote:Chicago & Columbia are worth more than $54,000 over 3 years at Michigan, in my opinion.

I agree with this, but cost of living differences could push that number quite a bit higher.

I went the other direction with similar numbers and did not ED. I think this decision could go other way. I just couldn't handle that much debt.

Had this decision 2 years ago with similar stats. I would counsel you against applying ED unless you are positive you want one of Chicago or Columbia. I think you will get into NYU and likely Michigan without much fuss. Send your applications out and then visit the schools so you can make an informed decision.

When I was applying, I thought I wanted Chi but ended up taking NYU over it and MVP with 50k based on fit. As a 2L with a summer associate job lined up, I am very happy with my decision.

Tiago Splitter wrote:

CanadianWolf wrote:Chicago & Columbia are worth more than $54,000 over 3 years at Michigan, in my opinion.

I agree with this, but cost of living differences could push that number quite a bit higher.

IMO, it's easier to live cheaply in Hyde Park than it is in Ann Arbor. Housing is ridiculously expensive in Ann Arbor, especially considering what you get for the price.

Helmholtz wrote:

Tiago Splitter wrote:

CanadianWolf wrote:Chicago & Columbia are worth more than $54,000 over 3 years at Michigan, in my opinion.

I agree with this, but cost of living differences could push that number quite a bit higher.

IMO, it's easier to live cheaply in Hyde Park than it is in Ann Arbor. Housing is ridiculously expensive in Ann Arbor, especially considering what you get for the price.

...but you do have to live in Hyde Park, then.

IAFG wrote:

Helmholtz wrote:

Tiago Splitter wrote:

CanadianWolf wrote:Chicago & Columbia are worth more than $54,000 over 3 years at Michigan, in my opinion.

I agree with this, but cost of living differences could push that number quite a bit higher.

IMO, it's easier to live cheaply in Hyde Park than it is in Ann Arbor. Housing is ridiculously expensive in Ann Arbor, especially considering what you get for the price.

...but you do have to live in Hyde Park, then.

It's kind of fun to play the game of "Hurry and get inside before it gets dark out and people start getting pistol-whipped in the main quad".

Helmholtz wrote:

Tiago Splitter wrote:

CanadianWolf wrote:Chicago & Columbia are worth more than $54,000 over 3 years at Michigan, in my opinion.

I agree with this, but cost of living differences could push that number quite a bit higher.

IMO, it's easier to live cheaply in Hyde Park than it is in Ann Arbor. Housing is ridiculously expensive in Ann Arbor, especially considering what you get for the price.

Yeah, when looking at Chicago it's important to remember that you'll likely be living in Hyde Park, at least for your first year, which is significantly cheaper than what you'd expect. And if you're willing to look at the apartments in Hyde Park proper rather than just the larger buildings (mainly Regents), you'll find some great deals.

And Hyde Park isn't that bad; very few students get mugged at gunpoint.

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Bildungsroman wrote:

Helmholtz wrote:

Tiago Splitter wrote:

CanadianWolf wrote:Chicago & Columbia are worth more than $54,000 over 3 years at Michigan, in my opinion.

I agree with this, but cost of living differences could push that number quite a bit higher.

IMO, it's easier to live cheaply in Hyde Park than it is in Ann Arbor. Housing is ridiculously expensive in Ann Arbor, especially considering what you get for the price.

Yeah, when looking at Chicago it's important to remember that you'll likely be living in Hyde Park, at least for your first year, which is significantly cheaper than what you'd expect. And if you're willing to look at the apartments in Hyde Park proper rather than just the larger buildings (mainly Regents), you'll find some great deals.

And Hyde Park isn't that bad; very few students get mugged at gunpoint.

Most time the muggers don't actually have guns. They just say they do. Just call their bluff and they'll usually run.

Of course, if they do actually have a gun, give them your wallet.

redbullvodka wrote:And does anyone disagree with the financial aid calculus?

Michigan is the only school that you can count on for financial aid. You're not gauranteed to get in to Michigan with your numbers.

You won't get in to UVA unless you are in state, or ED.

Penn can be really stingy or random with finaid $.

I would ED to one of Chicago or NYU if I were you.

Helmholtz wrote: IMO, it's easier to live cheaply in Hyde Park than it is in Ann Arbor. Housing is ridiculously expensive in Ann Arbor, especially considering what you get for the price.

This just goes to show how much of a matter of perspective this can be. I am paying less here in Ann Arbor than I paid to split a room in undergrad. A single in my undergrad housing (not in a major city, either) would have been twice as expensive as Ann Arbor. I guess this will depend largely on where you're coming from and the rent you're accustomed to.

TUP wrote:I went the other direction with similar numbers and did not ED. I think this decision could go other way. I just couldn't handle that much debt.

This was my situation as well. The thought of paying nearly $210k for NYU (including COL) as compared to $135k for Michigan (including COL, after $54k scholarship) was an enormous difference that I simply couldn't justify, especially since I wasn't set on New York by any means when I was picking schools. Your target market should be a consideration here. NYU or CLS are solid options if you want NYC and are willing to pay a premium for the placement advantage there. If you're trying to head to other markets, the placement advantage of either of these schools diminishes significantly.

Even as somebody heading to NYC biglaw post-graduation (at the very firm I would have wanted to go to if I'd gone to NYU), I am saving somewhere between $70,000-75,000 by going to Michigan, and I must say I am quite pleased with the decision. My loan payments on a ten-year plan will be somewhere around $1500 per month, rather than $2400 per month. Is it slightly more of a risk if you want New York? Sure. Will paying almost $1,000 less per month on my loan payments feel great? You bet it will.

Whether that is worth it to you will be entirely personal preference and what you're comfortable with. Nobody can definitively say whether it should be "worth it" or not to you - anybody who claims otherwise is just being stupid.

Where you are from should play a big role in your decision. Frankly, if you're form NYC/DC/the Northeast you should go to one of CCN. You don't have a secondary market to target/fall back on so you are sort of pideonholed into working in NYC unless you get very high grades. In that case you need to go into NYC interviews with a school on your resume that garners as much respect as possible there. So if you're from one of those aforementioned areas ED to Columbia. The difference will be worth it if you end up with subpar grades.

If you're from somewhere else go to the MVP with cash that is strongest in your region. I.e UVA if you're from the South ; Michigan if you're form the midwest.

FlightoftheEarls wrote:

Helmholtz wrote: IMO, it's easier to live cheaply in Hyde Park than it is in Ann Arbor. Housing is ridiculously expensive in Ann Arbor, especially considering what you get for the price.

This just goes to show how much of a matter of perspective this can be. I am paying less here in Ann Arbor than I paid to split a room in undergrad. A single in my undergrad housing (not in a major city, either) would have been twice as expensive as Ann Arbor. I guess this will depend largely on where you're coming from and the rent you're accustomed to.

No it doesn't?! It matters what your alternative would be in Chicago/NYC relative to what you consider livable in AA. It doesn't matter at all what you're coming from.

FlightoftheEarls wrote:

Helmholtz wrote: IMO, it's easier to live cheaply in Hyde Park than it is in Ann Arbor. Housing is ridiculously expensive in Ann Arbor, especially considering what you get for the price.

This just goes to show how much of a matter of perspective this can be. I am paying less here in Ann Arbor than I paid to split a room in undergrad. A single in my undergrad housing (not in a major city, either) would have been twice as expensive as Ann Arbor. I guess this will depend largely on where you're coming from and the rent you're accustomed to.

I have lived in Hyde Park, Ann Arbor, NYC, and out-in-the-middle-of-nowhere in the Midwest, so I've seen quite a range in housing prices. I think part of my opinion might be colored by how grungy a lot of the housing is near campus. It's not necessarily that it's objectively expensive as much as you feel like you're getting ripped off having to pay so much for such undesirable housing. Yeah, you might be paying only $800-$900/month if you want to live in an area like Kerrytown, but your "apartment" looks like this:

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Or a place for the same price that's near the law school, but then it looks like this:

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I guess you can rent an old house or something with a bunch of other law students...

The Phid house is pretty disgusting, and you'll almost certainly be spending more money living in the lawyer's club as a 1L versus someplace in Hyde Park.

Helmholtz wrote:
The Phid house is pretty disgusting, and you'll almost certainly be spending more money living in the lawyer's club as a 1L versus someplace in Hyde Park.

Seriously. I'm not sure how much apartments run in Ann Arbor, but I came from a very inexpensive college town (by way of 3 weeks in another pretty inexpensive college town) and I was really pleasantly surprised by housing costs in Hyde Park. Pretty much all the 1Ls I know are living exclusively off of the allocated budget and live in very nice apartments that are a cut above college town shit.

Helmholtz wrote:

IAFG wrote:

Helmholtz wrote:

Tiago Splitter wrote:
I agree with this, but cost of living differences could push that number quite a bit higher.

IMO, it's easier to live cheaply in Hyde Park than it is in Ann Arbor. Housing is ridiculously expensive in Ann Arbor, especially considering what you get for the price.

...but you do have to live in Hyde Park, then.

It's kind of fun to play the game of "Hurry and get inside before it gets dark out and people start getting pistol-whipped in the main quad".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XO-j-WQ0fG8

IAFG wrote:

FlightoftheEarls wrote:

Helmholtz wrote: IMO, it's easier to live cheaply in Hyde Park than it is in Ann Arbor. Housing is ridiculously expensive in Ann Arbor, especially considering what you get for the price.

This just goes to show how much of a matter of perspective this can be. I am paying less here in Ann Arbor than I paid to split a room in undergrad. A single in my undergrad housing (not in a major city, either) would have been twice as expensive as Ann Arbor. I guess this will depend largely on where you're coming from and the rent you're accustomed to.

No it doesn't?! It matters what your alternative would be in Chicago/NYC relative to what you consider livable in AA. It doesn't matter at all what you're coming from.

Clearly I was responding to the second sentence in Helm's post, since I was talking about how I didn't find Ann Arbor to be ridiculously expensive compared to the COL I was used to. I pay ~$600 for a bedroom in a house within 3 minutes from the law school, whereas in undergrad I was paying $625 to split a room in a much crappier house near campus. That's all I was saying.

Ah, I see.

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BruceWayne wrote:Where you are from should play a big role in your decision. Frankly, if you're form NYC/DC/the Northeast you should go to one of CCN. You don't have a secondary market to target/fall back on so you are sort of pideonholed into working in NYC unless you get very high grades. In that case you need to go into NYC interviews with a school on your resume that garners as much respect as possible there. So if you're from one of those aforementioned areas ED to Columbia. The difference will be worth it if you end up with subpar grades.

If you're from somewhere else go to the MVP with cash that is strongest in your region. I.e UVA if you're from the South ; Michigan if you're form the midwest.

Good points, where would you say someone should go if he (I) were from the West Coast? Stanford obviously, but that doesn't happen everyday.

Would you take CCN or Berkeley if you wanted to end up in the LA or SF markets?