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How big of an impact would there be in applying with a 3.18/171 vs applying with a 3.39/171. Any insight appreciated

Anyone have any idea? I still have one year of UG and could possibly get my GPA up that high, but not sure if it is worth the year off to have that difference because I'm already a splitter.

*0L disclaimer here

I wouldnt think it would make much of a difference. You'll still be at or under the 25% of GPAs at many law schools. The 171 is going to do the heavy lifting for you.

Definitely won't hurt, but as the post above indicated, you'll still be under the 25th percentile for most schools you want to be targeting with that 171. So, don't expect miracles.

ebo wrote:*0L disclaimer here

I wouldnt think it would make much of a difference. You'll still be at or under the 25% of GPAs at many law schools. The 171 is going to do the heavy lifting for you.

how heavy of lifting?

bhan87 wrote:Definitely won't hurt, but as the post above indicated, you'll still be under the 25th percentile for most schools you want to be targeting with that 171. So, don't expect miracles.

Yeah I didn't think so. But I wasn't sure if there were any soft 3.3 floors or anything that might help admit me at some places that I might otherwise be WLed at or something. Definitely not worth a year off for though, gotta go for it this fall

ArtVandalay wrote:

ebo wrote:*0L disclaimer here

I wouldnt think it would make much of a difference. You'll still be at or under the 25% of GPAs at many law schools. The 171 is going to do the heavy lifting for you.

how heavy of lifting?

Well, a 3.39 or a 3.18 won't do you many favors anywhere you'd be applying with a 171. What schools are you interested in?

ebo wrote:

ArtVandalay wrote:

ebo wrote:*0L disclaimer here

I wouldnt think it would make much of a difference. You'll still be at or under the 25% of GPAs at many law schools. The 171 is going to do the heavy lifting for you.

how heavy of lifting?

Well, a 3.39 or a 3.18 won't do you many favors anywhere you'd be applying with a 171. What schools are you interested in?

Michigan
Penn
Virginia
Cornell
Georgetown
UCLA
USC
Vandy
WUSTL
ILL
MINN
IUB
Iowa
BU
BC
ND
WISC

A rise of almost .2 in GPA does make a difference. If your thinking about accomplishing this by overloading yourself with classes, just be realistic on how many classes you can get an A in. Is the 171 a PT average or have you already scored this? Whether you have to do LSAT prep or not matters.

In terms of the schools you are interested in, I would ED to UVA on September 1st if you are ok with paying sticker. You have a good chance of getting in. WUSTL, UIUC, and IUB are all schools you should apply to if you are debt adverse.

Corwin wrote:A rise of almost .2 in GPA does make a difference. If your thinking about accomplishing this by overloading yourself with classes, just be realistic on how many classes you can get an A in. Is the 171 a PT average or have you already scored this? Whether you have to do LSAT prep or not matters.

In terms of the schools you are interested in, I would ED to UVA on September 1st if you are ok with paying sticker. You have a good chance of getting in. WUSTL, UIUC, and IUB are all schools you should apply to if you are debt adverse.

Thanks for the response. It would not be with overloading on classes, just my normal amount about 17credits or so. It would involve me getting pretty much a 4.0 for both semesters though which is possible but more likely that I will get between a 3.50 and a 3.75, which would bring the GPA only up to about 3.3 roughly. Still a valuable improvement but not really game-changing in any way. I definitely am going to apply to those schools you listed, hoping for half to full rides at most of those Midwest 20-30 schools (close to full at IUB, prob 90k at UIUC, around 84 at WUSTL all based on previous cycle results).

I am really debating the ED to UVA, which I know is no guarantee but I would have a 50/50 shot I would hope. I just am not sure if I am 100% on going there, over a school like WUSTL w/half tuition for 3 years. The sticker price at UVA would not be a deal breaker though. But am I right to assume I would have near no chance at UVA RD?

ArtVandalay wrote: I am really debating the ED to UVA, which I know is no guarantee but I would have a 50/50 shot I would hope. I just am not sure if I am 100% on going there, over a school like WUSTL w/half tuition for 3 years. The sticker price at UVA would not be a deal breaker though. But am I right to assume I would have near no chance at UVA RD?

I'm applying in a few cycles and it's likely I will face a similar dilema. If you're ok with working in the Midwest, I think UIUC at 90K+ scholly is the way to go. A debt of 100K or less is awesome because of the freedom it gives you in picking your job. But if you have other ambitions like clerking or having more geographic freedom, I think UVA is the better choice. The bottom line with UVA though is that you have to be ok with working at biglaw for 4 or 5 years AND you have to be in the top half of your class at minimum in order to get a salary for which you can pay back sticker.

As for UVA RD, definitely a WL if you do RD.

ArtVandalay wrote:

bhan87 wrote:Definitely won't hurt, but as the post above indicated, you'll still be under the 25th percentile for most schools you want to be targeting with that 171. So, don't expect miracles.

Yeah I didn't think so. But I wasn't sure if there were any soft 3.3 floors or anything that might help admit me at some places that I might otherwise be WLed at or something. Definitely not worth a year off for though, gotta go for it this fall

Your LSAT won't be high enough to give you a chance at schools with 3.3 floors. However, I do think 0.2 points will help your application and may be the difference between WL and A at certain places.

czelede wrote:

ArtVandalay wrote:

bhan87 wrote:Definitely won't hurt, but as the post above indicated, you'll still be under the 25th percentile for most schools you want to be targeting with that 171. So, don't expect miracles.

Yeah I didn't think so. But I wasn't sure if there were any soft 3.3 floors or anything that might help admit me at some places that I might otherwise be WLed at or something. Definitely not worth a year off for though, gotta go for it this fall

Your LSAT won't be high enough to give you a chance at schools with 3.3 floors. However, I do think 0.2 points will help your application and may be the difference between WL and A at certain places.

Which schools have a 3.3 floor?

ArtVandalay wrote: Which schools have a 3.3 floor?

Generally CCN, although Columbia wants a 3.4 and CN are both willing to dip below it occasionally (it's not the hardest floor around, haha). Obviously YHS has a much higher floor and will never dip down to 3.3, period. I'm not sure where Duke's floor is, though I know they have a preference for high GPAs and in general you need a 3.5 to have a good chance with them. For the rest of the T14 being above 3.1 is usually safe.

czelede wrote:

ArtVandalay wrote: Which schools have a 3.3 floor?

Generally CCN, although Columbia wants a 3.4 and CN are both willing to dip below it occasionally (it's not the hardest floor around, haha). Obviously YHS has a much higher floor and will never dip down to 3.3, period. I'm not sure where Duke's floor is, though I know they have a preference for high GPAs and in general you need a 3.5 to have a good chance with them. For the rest of the T14 being above 3.1 is usually safe.

Thanks for the info. What would retaking and getting a score of 174+ do to my chances at CCN/MVP?

It depends. You would have a much better shot at M, P, Cornell and GULC. For V you are going to have to ED either way and I doubt the increase would make that much of a difference.

Stringer Bell wrote:It depends. You would have a much better shot at M, P, Cornell and GULC. For V you are going to have to ED either way and I doubt the increase would make that much of a difference.

Would the 3.2ish/174 get me in ED to MP? Would I have a shot RD there? Still deciding on EDing to UVA

Also, my dream scenario would be retaking getting a 175/176+ and EDing to UChi and praying that somehow goes through, still low odds

Fwiw, I'm a 3.2x/177 splitter with acceptances at Chicago, NYU, Boalt, and Penn. I'm almost 100% sure I would not have had those first two acceptances without a 174+. I didn't apply to Michigan (which I regret a little now). If you really feel like you can get above a 175, retake. It will help you tremendously and give you a lot more security at schools you already have a good shot at.

Edit: waitlisted at V. They take so many splitters ED that an out-of-state RD splitter is almost always SOL.

czelede wrote:Fwiw, I'm a 3.2x/177 splitter with acceptances at Chicago, NYU, Boalt, and Penn. I'm almost 100% sure I would not have had those first two acceptances without a 174+. I didn't apply to Michigan (which I regret a little now). If you really feel like you can get above a 175, retake. It will help you tremendously and give you a lot more security at schools you already have a good shot at.

Edit: waitlisted at V. They take so many splitters ED that an out-of-state RD splitter is almost always SOL.

That is an awesome cycle. Is there anything extraordinary about your app?

do it. definitely makes a difference. i think 3.2 - 3.4 is really the "last" .2 difference that matters. when ur looking at 3.0 - 3.2, it doesn't really matter IMO.

Stringer Bell wrote:

czelede wrote:Fwiw, I'm a 3.2x/177 splitter with acceptances at Chicago, NYU, Boalt, and Penn. I'm almost 100% sure I would not have had those first two acceptances without a 174+. I didn't apply to Michigan (which I regret a little now). If you really feel like you can get above a 175, retake. It will help you tremendously and give you a lot more security at schools you already have a good shot at.

Edit: waitlisted at V. They take so many splitters ED that an out-of-state RD splitter is almost always SOL.

That is an awesome cycle. Is there anything extraordinary about your app?

I very interested as well! That's very impressive being able to swing Boalt with those numbers.

Stringer Bell wrote:

czelede wrote:Fwiw, I'm a 3.2x/177 splitter with acceptances at Chicago, NYU, Boalt, and Penn. I'm almost 100% sure I would not have had those first two acceptances without a 174+. I didn't apply to Michigan (which I regret a little now). If you really feel like you can get above a 175, retake. It will help you tremendously and give you a lot more security at schools you already have a good shot at.

Edit: waitlisted at V. They take so many splitters ED that an out-of-state RD splitter is almost always SOL.

That is an awesome cycle. Is there anything extraordinary about your app?

Thanks! I should note that I was first waitlisted at CN, so it wasn't quite as awesome. Additionally, looking at the similar applicants they took (<3.3/175+ splitters), it would be silly for me to assume it had to do with anything but that shiny 177.

As for Boalt, which was my "no chance in hell but I'll apply anyways" school, I really think they have an overall holistic admissions because there were even lower LSATs than mine accepted with similar GPAs. I think Penn's admissions are fairly holistic as well.

I don't think I had anything extraordinary in my application, but I would like to think that it was fairly "solid" on the whole. My softs are decent, possibly average by TLS standards: undergraduate top 5 engineering school, 2 years of WE in the industry (big name company), lots of volunteer experience/community involvement (some of it international), and work experience during college in graphic design (not freelance). Altogether I think the combination of these might have made for an "interesting" applicant profile, even if each one is really nothing special in itself. I also had my professors highlight the grade deflating nature of my major (classes curved to a 2.5). I submitted a 2 page PS and 1 page DS to all schools, which I've been told were fairly strong, so I think that contributed to my Boalt acceptance. But I might just be making that up.

I will also add that until my Penn acceptance came through in mid-December, I was really worried that not ED-ing would shut me out of the T10. I had actually initially ED-ed Penn, and then withdrew my ED before the deadline because I hadn't had time to visit and just couldn't make the commitment (which is ironic since I will likely be attending Penn this fall). If you know there is no other school you'd rather attend, ED is a very valuable weapon.

In all: splitter cycles are really hard to predict because we will always be considered somewhat 'borderline' candidates at most of these schools, so you really want to make sure your application is absolutely perfect. Don't apply late. Someone on TLS told me once that schools are looking for an excuse to accept a great LSAT, so make sure to give them one. I definitely think there's some grain of truth in this.

Thanks for the info on your cylce and applications. Just curious, what made you decide on Penn over Boalt/Chicago?

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