Top Law Schools

Junior professor at a T50ish school. Happy to take questions.

LawProfessor123 wrote:Junior professor at a T50ish school. Happy to take questions.

If you could do it all over again knowing what you know now, would you go to law school?

Once you are a Prof. what kind of mobility do you have? Would it be difficult to change school or region if you wanted to?

Knock wrote:

LawProfessor123 wrote:Junior professor at a T50ish school. Happy to take questions.

If you could do it all over again knowing what you know now, would you go to law school?

Absolutely. I love the law and its study "broadened my horizons," so to speak.

If I were 150k in debt and jobless, I might be singing a different tune. But I don't know where I would be if I hadn't found the law. Probably pursuing an MBA or something (blech).

Cupidity wrote:Once you are a Prof. what kind of mobility do you have? Would it be difficult to change school or region if you wanted to?

Two comments:

1. Moving down the USNews rankings is, as a general rule, fairly easy, unless there are strong indications that you are dead weight (i.e., you don't publish).

2. Notwithstanding #1, law schools in major metropolitan areas are more challenging to join, relative to their rank. There are a not insignificant number of law professors who would, because of spousal constraints, family constraints, or geographical preferences rather work at Hastings or Washington than Cornell. When you've settled in, you don't always have the option to move to Champaign or Tuscaloosa. So, a law professor, in terms of where she wants to find a job, does not necessarily rank her preferences according to USNews rank.

Also, schools that many top applicants sneer at -- like Rutgers-Newark or Seton Hall -- are actually quite coveted by professors. Keep in mind that professors are looking for an employer, not necessarily a degree.

In what school range did you earn your JD (HYS - CCN - BMVPD)? Or if it produced a lot of profs what school? Do you think earning a PhD in a complementary field helps? I'm (realistically) looking at MVP and down but very well prepared for PhD in econ.

AreJay711 wrote:In what school range did you earn your JD (HYS - CCN - BMVPD)? Or if it produced a lot of profs what school? Do you think earning a PhD in a complementary field helps? I'm (realistically) looking at MVP and down but very well prepared for PhD in econ.

I went to a T10 school, but not HY (I don't think there are meaningful differences among the remaining 8 when it comes to opportunities for academic placement).

A Ph.D in econ would help, I suppose, but only if you want to get a Ph.D in econ and it relates closely to your research interests. Just getting a Ph.D from some random university likely won't help.

Did you clerk? If so, where? Class ranking?

You really need to do something about your insomnia. Just sayin' - its not good. Dealt with it myself, it left me open to a lot of sickness and just general unhealthiness.

What's the best path to T50 prof out of HYS, assuming that your goal is to get there as quickly as possible? What sort of grades/clerkships/publications do you reasonably have to have? IE: do you need to be roughly top quarter, LR, Circuit Clerk, and have an article published in a top 50 LR to make it to a T50 school out of HYS? Is it harder than that? Easier? Just different?

Kobe_Teeth wrote:You really need to do something about your insomnia. Just sayin' - its not good. Dealt with it myself, it left me open to a lot of sickness and just general unhealthiness.

Really? This is where this thread goes.... This guy/gal went to a T10 school then became a professor, pretty sure he/she is functional on most levels. At least enough to be happy. Plus, if you want advice from a smoker as he is smoking you don't suggest he quits. You stand there and watch him smoke his life away as you get your advice. Just saying.

Besides that, what is the average score a student without the curve gets on your exams? If you do a points list say out of 100, does the average student get 50, 60, 90 points. What kind of results are common I should say.

Do you ever consider getting (back?) into private practice?

JG Hall wrote:Did you clerk? If so, where? Class ranking?

Nope. Sorta wish I did. Top 15% or so.

Kobe_Teeth wrote:You really need to do something about your insomnia. Just sayin' - its not good. Dealt with it myself, it left me open to a lot of sickness and just general unhealthiness.

I feel that I get stressed out a lot and it keeps me up at night. Insomnia, I think, is really a side effect rather than the problem. Maybe I should take up Yoga.

abl wrote:What's the best path to T50 prof out of HYS, assuming that your goal is to get there as quickly as possible? What sort of grades/clerkships/publications do you reasonably have to have? IE: do you need to be roughly top quarter, LR, Circuit Clerk, and have an article published in a top 50 LR to make it to a T50 school out of HYS? Is it harder than that? Easier? Just different?

Depends a lot on which area of law you are interested in. An HYS grad with a credible interest in tax or IP will be very competitive for T50 jobs. A similar grad with an interest in conlaw? Not so much. The more common your interests, the more difficult your path will be. And if your research interests don't translate well into any law school courses, good luck.

I don't think grades matter all that much, except to the extent that they help you get positions that do help (especially VAPs). Most law schools don't ask you for a transcript before interviewing you, and most don't ask for a transcript, ever.

SBL wrote:Do you ever consider getting (back?) into private practice?

Yes, a lot of times I get sick of the BS of academia and the way that academia values things that have no relevance in the real world. But I think I've made a firm decision to stay in academia, although I'd like to take a sabbatical or whatnot and work in fed govt for a year or two.

LawProfessor123 wrote:

abl wrote:What's the best path to T50 prof out of HYS, assuming that your goal is to get there as quickly as possible? What sort of grades/clerkships/publications do you reasonably have to have? IE: do you need to be roughly top quarter, LR, Circuit Clerk, and have an article published in a top 50 LR to make it to a T50 school out of HYS? Is it harder than that? Easier? Just different?

Depends a lot on which area of law you are interested in. An HYS grad with a credible interest in tax or IP will be very competitive for T50 jobs. A similar grad with an interest in conlaw? Not so much. The more common your interests, the more difficult your path will be. And if your research interests don't translate well into any law school courses, good luck.

I don't think grades matter all that much, except to the extent that they help you get positions that do help (especially VAPs). Most law schools don't ask you for a transcript before interviewing you, and most don't ask for a transcript, ever.

Maybe a dumb question, but what is a VAP? Do you have any insights or advice to someone who would interested in an academic / research position?

LawProfessor123 wrote:

SBL wrote:Do you ever consider getting (back?) into private practice?

Yes, a lot of times I get sick of the BS of academia and the way that academia values things that have no relevance in the real world. But I think I've made a firm decision to stay in academia, although I'd like to take a sabbatical or whatnot and work in fed govt for a year or two.

When did you decide that you wanted to be a professor? Were you in ever private practice? What did you do during your summers in law school?

2011Law wrote:

LawProfessor123 wrote:

SBL wrote:Do you ever consider getting (back?) into private practice?

Yes, a lot of times I get sick of the BS of academia and the way that academia values things that have no relevance in the real world. But I think I've made a firm decision to stay in academia, although I'd like to take a sabbatical or whatnot and work in fed govt for a year or two.

When did you decide that you wanted to be a professor? Were you in ever private practice? What did you do during your summers in law school?

I decided during law school -- I enjoyed writing my student note and thought I could write articles for a living.

I practiced for 6 years.

I did standard stuff during law school summers (internship with fed agency my 1L summer and biglaw gig my 2L year).

LawProfessor123 wrote: I went to a T10 school, but not HY (I don't think there are meaningful differences among the remaining 8 when it comes to opportunities for academic placement).

What are your thoughts on transferring into a HY from a T10 w/r/t academic placement?

quakeroats wrote:

LawProfessor123 wrote: I went to a T10 school, but not HY (I don't think there are meaningful differences among the remaining 8 when it comes to opportunities for academic placement).

What are your thoughts on transferring into a HY from a T10 w/r/t academic placement?

Sure, an H/Y degree is nice, but is it worth the disruption in your life? Do you WANT to transfer? Presumably you have done extremely well at your T10 school already. If it were me, I would write an article during the time I would otherwise spend on transfer apps. But if you don't like your current school and want to transfer, of course you should apply. But transferring solely for the sake of improving your chances as a prof seems like a bit much, although admittedly your chances do improve if you go to H/Y (and especially Y).

Do law professors at schools outside of the top 14/top 30 really differentiate between the caliber of schools within the t14 (excluding the obvious Harvard, Yale, and maybe Stanford)? To elaborate, if you sat down in the lounge and started discussing the t14 schools with fellow professors also at t50ish schools, do you think they would for the most part agree that there is very little distinction in quality between schools like Columbia/NYU/Chicago and schools like Georgetown/Cornell/Northwestern? Or is the profession (outside of the super-competitive top schools) generally :"aware" that there is a big difference between a Chicago and a Duke?

Sorry if that's confusing. I'm basically just trying to get a handle on whether the profession seems to divide the t14 up so distinctively (HYS/CCN/BMVP/DNCG) like the members of this board do, or if they just generally see it as: (HY/CCNBMVPDNCG) or something along those lines... Please keep in mind that I'm not looking for the viewpoint of super-academics who could name every professor at every school in the t14.

Kobe_Teeth wrote:You really need to do something about your insomnia. Just sayin' - its not good. Dealt with it myself, it left me open to a lot of sickness and just general unhealthiness.

says the probably still unhealthy guy who is posting a 2am

1. While you were practicing, how did you prepare to apply for academic positions? Any helpful prep during law school?

2. What do faculty recruiting committees primarily look at when evaluating faculty candidates?

3. Any useful websites/books/other resources you would recommend for someone interested in being a law professor?

Thanks!

mst wrote:Do law professors at schools outside of the top 14/top 30 really differentiate between the caliber of schools within the t14 (excluding the obvious Harvard, Yale, and maybe Stanford)? To elaborate, if you sat down in the lounge and started discussing the t14 schools with fellow professors also at t50ish schools, do you think they would for the most part agree that there is very little distinction in quality between schools like Columbia/NYU/Chicago and schools like Georgetown/Cornell/Northwestern? Or is the profession (outside of the super-competitive top schools) generally :"aware" that there is a big difference between a Chicago and a Duke?

Sorry if that's confusing. I'm basically just trying to get a handle on whether the profession seems to divide the t14 up so distinctively (HYS/CCN/BMVP/DNCG) like the members of this board do, or if they just generally see it as: (HY/CCNBMVPDNCG) or something along those lines... Please keep in mind that I'm not looking for the viewpoint of super-academics who could name every professor at every school in the t14.

I don't think law professors make distinctions as fine as you make them, especially because professors are comparing faculties, rather than student bodies. HYS undoubtedly stand out among the pack, but beyond that, the schools don't break down in the same ways that law students break them down (e.g. "CCN" v. "MVP"). To most professors, Georgetown is far more prestigious than, say, Duke or Michigan because of its location and (because of its location) it attracts many more heavyweight scholars than the more isolated schools. [EDIT: See clarification of this statement on fourth page of thread.]

So, to answer your question, I don't think law professors break law schools down in the same way that students do.