GPA determines career success, study finds (not the school) Forum

[JustBelieve]

The National Jurist just released in its October 2010 issue a much noted fact: GPA determines career success. The school you went to is irrelevant.

Here are some excerpts from the study done (on Page # 7 of the October issue)

"The quantitative evidence also suggests that the importance of law school eliteness is exaggerated in most discussions about legal markets. Law firms, which once hired exclusively from a narrow set of elite firms, now hire associates from dozens of different law schools."

"The study found that grades are predictive of attorneys making partner at large law firms."

So for all of you choosing which law school to go to, know this, the school itself does not matter (as long as its ABA-accredited). People will lie to you and say nonsense about you need to only go to a school that is in the T-14 or Tier 1 or blah blah blah. That is all lies. The only thing that will determine how you do after law school is YOU. No school, regardless of how elite people make them out to be, will help you. Period.

Please do not become disillusioned in the NON-PROVEN and unfactual stuff that people try to feed to you about your attending a T4 will not get you a great job in the private sector. They are flat out wrong. Even with facts to negate their claims, they will still try to prove otherwise, and even call you a troll (still laughing at that one).

Nevermind what others think, do what YOU need to do and you will be rewarded with the perfect job in BIg Law. Don't stop believing in yourself. You must believe so that you can achieve.

[nealric]

Sigh...

The study is looking at absolute GPA. What the authors apparently don't realize (or choose not to point out) is that higher ranked schools generally have easier curves, and it is therefore easier to get a higher GPA at them.

Nevermind what others think, do what YOU need to do and you will be rewarded with the perfect job in BIg Law. Don't stop believing in yourself. You must believe so that you can achieve.

The fact of the matter is that it is statistically much more unlikely that you will get biglaw from a T4. If you don't believe me, I invite you to look through the roster of partners at a given V100 firm (almost all biglaw firms have an attorney directory that lists school). I guarantee you very few T4 grads will be severely underrepresented.

For example, Baker Botts Houston:
No Partners from South Texas College of Law and only five associates/of counsel (Local T4): http://www.bakerbotts.com/lawyers/list. ... 7da91c0654
Not a single attorney from Texas Southern (The other Local T4) http://www.bakerbotts.com/lawyers/list. ... 3032683052
Reams of Partners and Associates from Harvard- not even a local school: http://www.bakerbotts.com/lawyers/list. ... 0b15033364

Realize this may just be trolling- but it's important to make sure the unwary are not swayed.

[bk1]

I find your lack of subtlety disturbing.

[JustBelieve]

Sadly, what you posted was wrong. These firms did not list their complete employment statistics. This data you posted is irrelevant. And thus, I respectfully, as well as most realist people, will look to proven objective data over subjective opinions.

Besides, what you listed are only 3 firms you subjectively listed (the ones that support your flawed assertion) of the thousands of Big Law firms out there...This is not true, nice try though. Just Believe in yourself and you will have no problems landing the prime Big Law job.

Sigh...

The study is looking at absolute GPA. What the authors apparently don't realize (or choose not to point out) is that higher ranked schools generally have easier curves, and it is therefore easier to get a higher GPA at them.

Nevermind what others think, do what YOU need to do and you will be rewarded with the perfect job in BIg Law. Don't stop believing in yourself. You must believe so that you can achieve.

The fact of the matter is that it is statistically much more unlikely that you will get biglaw from a T4. If you don't believe me, I invite you to look through the roster of partners at a given V100 firm (almost all biglaw firms have an attorney directory that lists school). I guarantee you very few T4 grads will be severely underrepresented.

For example, Baker Botts Houston:
No Partners from South Texas College of Law and only five associates/of counsel (Local T4): http://www.bakerbotts.com/lawyers/list. ... 7da91c0654
Not a single attorney from Texas Southern (The other Local T4) http://www.bakerbotts.com/lawyers/list. ... 3032683052
Reams of Partners and Associates from Harvard- not even a local school: http://www.bakerbotts.com/lawyers/list. ... 0b15033364

[nealric]

Sadly, what you posted was wrong. These firms did not list their complete employment statistics.

Umm...

Every attorney that works for the firm is on the website.

[JustBelieve]

I'm afraid you don't understand the concept. How do you know every attorney for the firm is on the website? I say this because not all firms post every attorney. There's a firm in my regional market that is ALWAYS talked about for hiring attorneys from the nearest T1 school, yet none of them are on their website. On the contrary, all the attorneys from the T3 and T4 schools are there (including partners).

This is not a difficult concept to understand. Please try to comprehend.

Sadly, what you posted was wrong. These firms did not list their complete employment statistics.

Umm...

Every attorney that works for the firm is on the website.

[nealric]

How do you know every attorney for the firm is on the website?

I know a lot of attorneys from that office. It's pretty laughable that you are saying that the practices of a regional firm are somehow indicative of those of biglaw.

[ahduth]

Don't stop believing

Great song. Journey FTW.

[bk1]

This is not a difficult concept to understand. Please try to comprehend.

I just don't get it. Please help me.

[Kohinoor]

Just Believe in yourself and you will have no problems landing the prime Big Law job.

tyft

[dissonance1848]

This study is just LS propaganda. Who cares if you go to a T-4, you will make partner!

What bs. One, as mentioned above, the higher ranked the school, the more lenient the curve, and the less you have to work for a relative grade.

Two, the study is based off the totally indefensible notion that if you go to a higher ranked school, you will not do as well class rank wise. Total bs. If thats the case, then apparently schools have different core reqs, which can't be true, since every last 1L has to take torts, civ pro, etc.

Just look at the people who killed NYU vs Loyola in LA, mentioned on TLS. Notice they had some overlaps in killing finals, right? So, place someone at CLS vs. a T-4, and they will probably have about the same or better rank at CLS if they work the same amount.

Just look at the V100, see the ratios of associates and partners from top schools to T-3/T-4, I think you might be surprised.

Like I said, this study is there to justify people voluntarily becoming slaves to law school debt bondage without any recourse.

[JusticeHarlan]

List of where new partners in 2009 went to school, ranked by most partners (NLJ250 firms, I think)
Obviously you have to factor for disparate class sizes and such, but I think the list makes the point about whether or not going to an "elite" schools is indicative of success.

[dissonance1848]

JustBelieve must be a total troll.

[nealric]

List of where new partners in 2009 went to school, ranked by most partners (NLJ250 firms, I think)

Nice.

[Kohinoor]

http://www.nationaljurist.com/content/g ... tudy-finds

Link to the article discussing yet another abortive dissertation by Sanders.

[NayBoer]

I've never said this before on TLS, but flame.

[nealric]

JustBelieve must be a total troll.

Indeed. Hope he's enjoying it.

[bk1]

I've never said this before on TLS, but flame.

Did someone just pop their flame cherry?

[paratactical]

I've never said this before on TLS, but flame.

Wait, you mean the person starting threads in every section of the board about how everybody can be partner, even at a T3 or 4, might not be entirely genuine?

[NayBoer]

I've never said this before on TLS, but flame.

Wait, you mean the person starting threads in every section of the board about how everybody can be partner, even at a T3 or 4, might not be entirely genuine?

I think I need to do more background research before I post.

[JustBelieve]

This means nothing. You have data, and I have data. So what? The recent data, as well as the data from a similar test by the ABA supports the fact (and repels the lie) that its all about grades and not about the school.

It USED to be the case that the school mattered, not anymore. It's 2010 get with the times!

http://www.nationaljurist.com/content/g ... tudy-finds

Link to the article discussing yet another abortive dissertation by Sanders.

[kalvano]

Jesus Christ, you're annoying, you fat fuck.

[paratactical]

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[nealric]

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[ToTransferOrNot]

Yes, because the top 10% at Wisconsin Law are doing so well compared to the median at UoC.



Bad troll is bad.