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Is a third/forth tier law school even worth going to?
Posted: Fri Apr 23, 2010 10:30 pm
by MurderafterMidnight
I'm asking because honestly i would like to know. I was blessed to have made it through undergrad and not owe anything, i would like to go to law school but the with all the articles and complaints i have been reading from recent graduates about not finding work or very low paying jobs, i am starting to be a bit more concerned. I am a URM and i have a electrical engineering degree and plan on taking the patent bar soon. My main law interest is ip. i am wondering how much this will improve my law career outlook at graduation. Also i would just honestly like to know in your opinions is any third/forth tier school worth attending. Thanks in advance.
Re: Is a third/forth tier law school even worth going to?
Posted: Fri Apr 23, 2010 10:34 pm
by 270910
No.
Re: Is a third/forth tier law school even worth going to?
Posted: Fri Apr 23, 2010 10:35 pm
by SwollenMonkey
I'll let you know in 3 years.
Re: Is a third/forth tier law school even worth going to?
Posted: Fri Apr 23, 2010 10:37 pm
by Drake014
if you pass the patent bar? i don't know. Ask someone who hires those type of attorneys.
Re: Is a third/forth tier law school even worth going to?
Posted: Fri Apr 23, 2010 10:40 pm
by bigben
I'm pretty sure most of them are not that much worse than most tier 2 or lower tier 1 schools.
But, the answer is no, it is probably not a good idea for you to go. If you can get an engineering job, it seems exceedingly unlikely that one of these law schools will get you something better.
See if you can find recent grads and/or attorneys to talk to about this.
Re: Is a third/forth tier law school even worth going to?
Posted: Fri Apr 23, 2010 10:40 pm
by A'nold
It depends on the school I guess but I'd say that in the vast majority of situations, no. I hear U. of Montana is a great school. I know that sounds funny, but I'm at least a little bit serious......kind of.
Re: Is a third/forth tier law school even worth going to?
Posted: Fri Apr 23, 2010 10:43 pm
by Wooster33
MurderafterMidnight wrote:I'm asking because honestly i would like to know. I was blessed to have made it through undergrad and not owe anything, i would like to go to law school but the with all the articles and complaints i have been reading from recent graduates about not finding work or very low paying jobs, i am starting to be a bit more concerned. I am a URM and i have a electrical engineering degree and plan on taking the patent bar soon. My main law interest is ip. i am wondering how much this will improve my law career outlook at graduation. Also i would just honestly like to know in your opinions is any third/forth tier school worth attending. Thanks in advance.
The short answer is yes but it's dependent on a number of variables.
Cost. If you get a substantial scholarship at a TTT or are admitted to one of the state programs that is still affordable, then I would say cost itself shouldn't be a huge issue. If you are going to a private school with 50-70k of total cost of attendance, I would think SERIOUSLY before attending. But because of the recent IBR program, particularly for those entering public interest work, debt is less of a factor than before.
Only the top of the class will have good opportunities. Just understand the opportunities you are likely to have and don't enroll counting on being in the top 10%.
I can't give you specific data, but your engineering background and URM status will help you. URM status will help you more in attending a better school and getting scholarships, but it will also help in getting a job. Depending on what kind of URM you are, the bump you will receive will vary. If you are black a 155-ish LSAT will definitely get you out of TTT territory and into a T1 and probably with some scholarship money to boot.
Re: Is a third/forth tier law school even worth going to?
Posted: Fri Apr 23, 2010 10:44 pm
by Danteshek
This depends on what your other options are, how strong your resume is, and what your goals are.
Re: Is a third/forth tier law school even worth going to?
Posted: Fri Apr 23, 2010 10:44 pm
by Wooster33
A'nold wrote:It depends on the school I guess but I'd say that in the vast majority of situations, no. I hear U. of Montana is a great school. I know that sounds funny, but I'm at least a little bit serious......kind of.
LOL at A'nold because he chose to attend a TTT and now says it's a terrible idea. JK. It's good to go in with eyes wide open and I think A'nold did.
Re: Is a third/forth tier law school even worth going to?
Posted: Fri Apr 23, 2010 11:03 pm
by vanwinkle
Re: Is a third/forth tier law school even worth going to?
Posted: Fri Apr 23, 2010 11:06 pm
by MurderafterMidnight
Danteshek wrote:This depends on what your other options are, how strong your resume is, and what your goals are.
Well I would like big law or at least higher mid law
Re: Is a third/forth tier law school even worth going to?
Posted: Fri Apr 23, 2010 11:07 pm
by JOThompson
It depends on the particular school. South Texas does fairly well in Houston, much better than you'd expected of a T3/T4. The same might be said of Willamette in Salem, Oregon. If it's at all possible to retake or accumulate work experience, please do so, because you'll be a more competitive applicant at traditionally solid schools. It's just too risky to attend programs like Thomas Jefferson nowadays.
Re: Is a third/forth tier law school even worth going to?
Posted: Fri Apr 23, 2010 11:07 pm
by OperaSoprano
MurderafterMidnight wrote:Danteshek wrote:This depends on what your other options are, how strong your resume is, and what your goals are.
Well I would like big law or at least higher mid law
Even I have to come in here and tell you that the regrettable answer is no.
Re: Is a third/forth tier law school even worth going to?
Posted: Fri Apr 23, 2010 11:07 pm
by vanwinkle
MurderafterMidnight wrote:Well I would like big law
disco_barred wrote:No.
Re: Is a third/forth tier law school even worth going to?
Posted: Fri Apr 23, 2010 11:09 pm
by Wooster33
MurderafterMidnight wrote:Danteshek wrote:This depends on what your other options are, how strong your resume is, and what your goals are.
Well I would like big law or at least higher mid law
Then it is a big gamble. Not all TTTs are the same. Some are truly terrible, others have pretty decent local prospects for students. But big law is going to be a very small percent of the class even at the best TTT.
Re: Is a third/forth tier law school even worth going to?
Posted: Fri Apr 23, 2010 11:10 pm
by A'nold
Wooster33 wrote:A'nold wrote:It depends on the school I guess but I'd say that in the vast majority of situations, no. I hear U. of Montana is a great school. I know that sounds funny, but I'm at least a little bit serious......kind of.
LOL at A'nold because he chose to attend a TTT and now says it's a terrible idea. JK. It's good to go in with eyes wide open and I think A'nold did.
Haha. Well, I still stick to my whole "if it is cheap and in the market you want to work in....FOREVAAAAA" idea then it might be an o.k. idea or if you want to go to a state flagship t3 or 4 that dominates a state........just don't pick my school. Yikes.
The thing is, and I know everyone always says this before starting, but I knew I would do well here for many reasons and worked pretty bleeping hard this year. However, the one thing I did not count on was getting to know some of these students that have dreams of becoming a lawyer and knowing (a very sad realization) that many of them just do not have a chance and are wasting a year or three of their lives. It really does make you sad, especially when you like them/they are good people. Plus, seeing how horribly our school is regarded and the fact that the state doesn't take as good of care of its students as I had suspected coupled with some really, really bad administrative policies makes me a lot more pessimistic about lower ranked schools. Not all are created the same but my school really does not make one optimistic about them in general.
Re: Is a third/forth tier law school even worth going to?
Posted: Fri Apr 23, 2010 11:10 pm
by MurderafterMidnight
JOThompson wrote:It depends on the particular school. South Texas does fairly well in Houston, much better than you'd expected of a T3/T4. The same might be said of Willamette in Salem, Oregon. If it's at all possible to retake or accumulate work experience, please do so, because you'll be a more competitive applicant at traditionally solid schools. It's just too risky to attend programs like Thomas Jefferson nowadays.
School would be Wayne state,Cooley or u of d mercy I'm in detroit
Re: Is a third/forth tier law school even worth going to?
Posted: Fri Apr 23, 2010 11:12 pm
by A'nold
JOThompson wrote:It depends on the particular school. South Texas does fairly well in Houston, much better than you'd expected of a T3/T4. [strike]The same might be said of Willamette in Salem, Oregon.[/strike] If it's at all possible to retake or accumulate work experience, please do so, because you'll be a more competitive applicant at traditionally solid schools. It's just too risky to attend programs like Thomas Jefferson nowadays.
ftfy.
Re: Is a third/forth tier law school even worth going to?
Posted: Fri Apr 23, 2010 11:13 pm
by JOThompson
MurderafterMidnight wrote:JOThompson wrote:It depends on the particular school. South Texas does fairly well in Houston, much better than you'd expected of a T3/T4. The same might be said of Willamette in Salem, Oregon. If it's at all possible to retake or accumulate work experience, please do so, because you'll be a more competitive applicant at traditionally solid schools. It's just too risky to attend programs like Thomas Jefferson nowadays.
School would be Wayne state,Cooley or u of d mercy I'm in detroit
I'm not very familiar with Wayne State or UDM, but I would advise you to stay away from Cooley. One of my good undergrad buddies was eager to begin there, and now that he realizes his job prospects are rough, he feels like it was his worst mistake ever. Didn't help that his professors refused to write him transfer LORs, as they don't "believe" in transferring. Most other posters here don't have high opinions of Cooley either, but I'd be interested to hear their thoughts about the other two schools.
Re: Is a third/forth tier law school even worth going to?
Posted: Fri Apr 23, 2010 11:15 pm
by A'nold
MurderafterMidnight wrote:JOThompson wrote:It depends on the particular school. South Texas does fairly well in Houston, much better than you'd expected of a T3/T4. The same might be said of Willamette in Salem, Oregon. If it's at all possible to retake or accumulate work experience, please do so, because you'll be a more competitive applicant at traditionally solid schools. It's just too risky to attend programs like Thomas Jefferson nowadays.
School would be Wayne state,Cooley or u of d mercy I'm in detroit
I mean, you might as well be talking about Stanford and Widener/Drake in the same breath for how far apart those schools are in job options/prestige. In Wayne State, you've found one of the only decent t3/t4 schools in the nation. In the other two........I can't even comment on how over your legal career will be, I'm talking before it even starts.
Re: Is a third/forth tier law school even worth going to?
Posted: Fri Apr 23, 2010 11:16 pm
by Wooster33
Haha. Well, I still stick to my whole "if it is cheap and in the market you want to work in....FOREVAAAAA" idea then it might be an o.k. idea or if you want to go to a state flagship t3 or 4 that dominates a state........just don't pick my school. Yikes.
The thing is, and I know everyone always says this before starting, but I knew I would do well here for many reasons and worked pretty bleeping hard this year. However, the one thing I did not count on was getting to know some of these students that have dreams of becoming a lawyer and knowing (a very sad realization) that many of them just do not have a chance and are wasting a year or three of their lives. It really does make you sad, especially when you like them/they are good people. Plus, seeing how horribly our school is regarded and the fact that the state doesn't take as good of care of its students as I had suspected coupled with some really, really bad administrative policies makes me a lot more pessimistic about lower ranked schools. Not all are created the same but my school really does not make one optimistic about them in general.
It wouldn't matter so much but the debt that some TTT schools require is just absurd given the career prospects. The federal government should stop issuing loans to these schools, IMO--and not just law schools, plenty of private tech and online programs are equally terrible. But that will never happen--everybody thinks education is ALWAYS a good thing, no matter the cost.
Sorry to hear about your school being a disappointment. But you will be out of there soon enough.
Re: Is a third/forth tier law school even worth going to?
Posted: Fri Apr 23, 2010 11:20 pm
by thinkbig
What if it was on a full ride? Time is money though and if it will not advance your career or salary, it could be seen as a waste of time?
Re: Is a third/forth tier law school even worth going to?
Posted: Fri Apr 23, 2010 11:21 pm
by MoS
If you want to be a small town lawyer in or near the town where the the school is AND you don't have to pay tuition to go there, then I really don't see a problem with it. If you want the 160k job in a city or you have to take 160k in loans to become a small town lawyer, then NOOO!
Re: Is a third/forth tier law school even worth going to?
Posted: Fri Apr 23, 2010 11:29 pm
by Danteshek
MurderafterMidnight wrote:Danteshek wrote:This depends on what your other options are, how strong your resume is, and what your goals are.
Well I would like big law or at least higher mid law
Assuming your resume is weak (you don't have significant relevant experience, or, for example, PhD looking into patent law), you are setting yourself up for failure. Not having a clear idea of what you want to do, coupled with your utter cluelessness and a T3 law degree, means you don't have much chance of success.
FYI I attend a T3.
Re: Is a third/forth tier law school even worth going to?
Posted: Fri Apr 23, 2010 11:46 pm
by MurderafterMidnight
Danteshek wrote:MurderafterMidnight wrote:Danteshek wrote:This depends on what your other options are, how strong your resume is, and what your goals are.
Well I would like big law or at least higher mid law
Assuming your resume is weak (you don't have significant relevant experience, or, for example, PhD looking into patent law), you are setting yourself up for failure. Not having a clear idea of what you want to do, coupled with your utter cluelessness and a T3 law degree, means you don't have much chance of success.
FYI I attend a T3.
Well honestly man I would not say I am utterly clueless wow, tough crowd here. I have been a engineer at a top communication company for the past 3 years, I don't have a phd but I do do have a online MBA degree. I would like to be a attorney but I was concerned with the risk that's why I asked for some input. Engineering is great but I'm not sure I want to do it the rest of my life and I would like to have the options open to me.