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While I suppose I risk looking like a "gunner," I was hoping to familiarize myself with the outlining process before entering school next fall. Does anyone know of some good sample outlines I can find online? Or would any current students mind sharing their own?

also interested in this

Samesies.

Terrible outlining skills here

Everyone has their own style. Some people love their 100 pagers, some people like to keep it to 10. Makes it hard to sort the wheat from the chaffe... for the purposes of using it to study, you want it to be over rather than underinclusive, but when you make your own keeping them trimmed down can make sure you're actually processing as opposed to just regurgitating information.

No examples on hand, but you'll definitely have access to some sort of outline bank when you get to law school, and have lots of time to sort this stuff out.

/Less helpful but also less snarky than usual Disco

disco_barred wrote:Everyone has their own style. Some people love their 100 pagers, some people like to keep it to 10. Makes it hard to sort the wheat from the chaffe... for the purposes of using it to study, you want it to be over rather than underinclusive, but when you make your own keeping them trimmed down can make sure you're actually processing as opposed to just regurgitating information.

No examples on hand, but you'll definitely have access to some sort of outline bank when you get to law school, and have lots of time to sort this stuff out.

/Less helpful but also less snarky than usual Disco

I would suggest making your own outlines. As Disco mentioned. Everyone has their own style. I typically start with an enormous outline with everything I can think of in it. As I continue along I edit a couple times to get it down to the 30-45pg. mark. I will also bring a short - 1-2pg. checklist outline if the class is open-book.

I found some free ones here:
http://www.ilrg.com/students/outlines/
I cannot really distinguish the good from the bad and I have only skimmed through the one I printed out. A professor at GULC recommended some books for me to read before 1L if I want to waste my summer studying. He suggested these books --LinkRemoved--

Of course, you must make your own when you actually get to school.

To clarify, I wasn't looking for cheater outlines. I was looking for a model to use in learning to create my own outlines.

I'm reading a random "get yourself ready for law school" book that happened to be at the library, but it's less useful than one might hope. Thanks for the link. I will probably read a few of those between now and the fall.

While we are talking about outlines, are tests usually open book or not? Do they test acquired/remembered knowledge or ability to apply the learned knowledge? I realize they probably all vary, but I suck at memorization and really great at understanding/applying. TIA.

r6_philly wrote:While we are talking about outlines, are tests usually open book or not? Do they test acquired/remembered knowledge or ability to apply the learned knowledge? I realize they probably all vary, but I suck at memorization and really great at understanding/applying. TIA.

Most are completely open book/note. All are 100% application. You've never applied anything like this before, so don't get cocky.

disco_barred wrote:

r6_philly wrote:While we are talking about outlines, are tests usually open book or not? Do they test acquired/remembered knowledge or ability to apply the learned knowledge? I realize they probably all vary, but I suck at memorization and really great at understanding/applying. TIA.

Most are completely open book/note. All are 100% application. You've never applied anything like this before, so don't get cocky.

Not cocky, confident. Not blind confidence either. I know what is hard for me what is relatively easier. At this old age I should be pretty good at self-assessment, but of course I welcome new challanges. I would have never looked at law schools if I wasn't told by profs. who have graduated from top schools that I would be excellent at it.

Thanks for the info by the way. I look forward to being challenged.

r6_philly wrote:

disco_barred wrote:

r6_philly wrote:While we are talking about outlines, are tests usually open book or not? Do they test acquired/remembered knowledge or ability to apply the learned knowledge? I realize they probably all vary, but I suck at memorization and really great at understanding/applying. TIA.

Most are completely open book/note. All are 100% application. You've never applied anything like this before, so don't get cocky.

Not cocky, confident. Not blind confidence either. I know what is hard for me what is relatively easier. At this old age I should be pretty good at self-assessment, but of course I welcome new challanges. I would have never looked at law schools if I wasn't told by profs. who have graduated from top schools that I would be excellent at it.

Thanks for the info by the way. I look forward to being challenged.

Good attitude. Having the right attitude can make the difference between 'WHY GOD MAKE IT STOP' and 'WHY GOD MAKE IT STOP... but it's kind of fun too...'

Also, by application, you mean the ability to extract the essential meaning/idea/principle behind one set of cases then consistently applying the said meaning/idea/principle to another set of totally unrelated cases correctly, right?

r6_philly wrote:Also, by application, you mean the ability to extract the essential meaning/idea/principle behind one set of cases then consistently applying the said meaning/idea/principle to another set of totally unrelated cases correctly, right?

I would hope that you apply related cases to the fact pattern given, but yes, that is the idea.

disco_barred wrote:
Good attitude. Having the right attitude can make the difference between 'WHY GOD MAKE IT STOP' and 'WHY GOD MAKE IT STOP... but it's kind of fun too...'

I have never said "why god make it stop". I have endured many things that a human shouldn't be subjected to (and most of my fellow students will never be subjected to), but I never had that kind of attitude. I just find a way out of it, there is always a way out of it, and I am always capable of finding that way out of it. This wouldn't compare in the least to some of the challenges I have faced, and they weren't even fun Don't worry about me, I won't fail myself.

disco_barred wrote:

r6_philly wrote:While we are talking about outlines, are tests usually open book or not? Do they test acquired/remembered knowledge or ability to apply the learned knowledge? I realize they probably all vary, but I suck at memorization and really great at understanding/applying. TIA.

Most are completely open book/note. All are 100% application. You've never applied anything like this before, so don't get cocky.

Mine were split, maybe 60/40 in favor of open book/note. Almost all profs did not allow commercial outlines/treatises though.

Here is Arrows: --LinkRemoved--

Like everyone else said, you have to do what's right for you. I'm taking a "pre-law" UG class now that's just an issue-spotting hypo, but I used his outlining just to see how I liked it. I ended up hitting all the issues. I'm the kind of person that likes to obsess over the information and keep condensing down to a few sentences, so his outlining style is on par with my studying style. I really liked the two section tables.

I can see how this wouldn't be for everyone though.

Edit: Arrows guide for doing well in law school http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... =2&t=77628

rando wrote:

r6_philly wrote:Also, by application, you mean the ability to extract the essential meaning/idea/principle behind one set of cases then consistently applying the said meaning/idea/principle to another set of totally unrelated cases correctly, right?

I would hope that you apply related cases to the fact pattern given, but yes, that is the idea.

Wouldn't it be more challenging if the second set of the cases given were seemingly "unrelated". That way you have to find the relationship/similarity between the two sets so you can apply the principles. That's what I mean. If the relationship is straight foward and clear then the application shouldn't be too challenging. Sorry about the ambiguous wording.

beach_terror wrote:Here is Arrows: --LinkRemoved--

Like everyone else said, you have to do what's right for you. I'm taking a "pre-law" UG class now that's just an issue-spotting hypo, but I used his outlining just to see how I liked it. I ended up hitting all the issues. I'm the kind of person that likes to obsess over the information and keep condensing down to a few sentences, so his outlining style is on par with my studying style. I really liked the two section tables.

I can see how this wouldn't be for everyone though.

Edit: Arrows guide for doing well in law school http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... =2&t=77628

that is a downright bizarre outline. And not very helpful unless your class is about memorizing what each case stood for.

r6_philly wrote:

rando wrote:

r6_philly wrote:Also, by application, you mean the ability to extract the essential meaning/idea/principle behind one set of cases then consistently applying the said meaning/idea/principle to another set of totally unrelated cases correctly, right?

I would hope that you apply related cases to the fact pattern given, but yes, that is the idea.

Wouldn't it be more challenging if the second set of the cases given were seemingly "unrelated". That way you have to find the relationship/similarity between the two sets so you can apply the principles. That's what I mean. If the relationship is straight foward and clear then the application shouldn't be too challenging. Sorry about the ambiguous wording.

Yes. that is the point of a law school exam

rando wrote:

disco_barred wrote:

r6_philly wrote:While we are talking about outlines, are tests usually open book or not? Do they test acquired/remembered knowledge or ability to apply the learned knowledge? I realize they probably all vary, but I suck at memorization and really great at understanding/applying. TIA.

Most are completely open book/note. All are 100% application. You've never applied anything like this before, so don't get cocky.

Mine were split, maybe 60/40 in favor of open book/note. Almost all profs did not allow commercial outlines/treatises though.

Are the difficulties about the same for open book and close book tests? Do some schools favor more toward open books. Duh of course they do, do you know which ones? I am curious, I would probably need notes badly. My memory always fails me, perhaps from past brain injuries.

Making your own outlines while doing the readings should help you take in the readings right? So good skills in extracting from the readings and making clear and concise outlines are essential in doing well.

Thank you so much for taking the time to answer my ignorant and cocky 0L questions I really appreciate it. I haven't had the time to read up on actual law school info yet since I still don't know where I am going.

r6_philly wrote:

rando wrote:

disco_barred wrote:

r6_philly wrote:While we are talking about outlines, are tests usually open book or not? Do they test acquired/remembered knowledge or ability to apply the learned knowledge? I realize they probably all vary, but I suck at memorization and really great at understanding/applying. TIA.

Most are completely open book/note. All are 100% application. You've never applied anything like this before, so don't get cocky.

Mine were split, maybe 60/40 in favor of open book/note. Almost all profs did not allow commercial outlines/treatises though.

Are the difficulties about the same for open book and close book tests? Do some schools favor more toward open books. Duh of course they do, do you know which ones? I am curious, I would probably need notes badly. My memory always fails me, perhaps from past brain injuries.

Making your own outlines while doing the readings should help you take in the readings right? So good skills in extracting from the readings and making clear and concise outlines are essential in doing well.

Thank you so much for taking the time to answer my ignorant and cocky 0L questions I really appreciate it. I haven't had the time to read up on actual law school info yet since I still don't know where I am going.

Difficulties for either are the same because you are competing against other students who are taking the same test, that is the beauty of the curve.

I always studied hard enough so that open book or not I could pretty much take the test without looking at my outlines. Some exams are so time-crunched that you really need to fly through the material as well. Meaning you better know the stuff down cold or know exactly where to look in your outlines.

After editing my outlines several times, and making notecards, I know the stuff cold.

rando wrote: Difficulties for either are the same because you are competing against other students who are taking the same test, that is the beauty of the curve.

I always studied hard enough so that open book or not I could pretty much take the test without looking at my outlines. Some exams are so time-crunched that you really need to fly through the material as well. Meaning you better know the stuff down cold or know exactly where to look in your outlines.

After editing my outlines several times, and making notecards, I know the stuff cold.

Good advice. I would like to have the outlines as a reference. Nice to have if you need it. If I know what's covered on the exam, I should know the concept/principles thoroughly, although it would be really nice to have it for backup/double checking.

Thanks again! This answered a lot of my questions about law school classes/tests. Looking forward to my turn.

I would recommend against looking at other outlines before making your own during the first semester. Other outlines may unduly influence you against your own learning processes, mental organization, and perception of the material. When you actually sit down and start making your own outline (after the first chapter/ block of material), you may find it helpful to skim a few outlines so you know how to proceed. Beyond that, you'll be engaging in a useless endeavor that could actually be detrimental.

r6_philly wrote:While we are talking about outlines, are tests usually open book or not? Do they test acquired/remembered knowledge or ability to apply the learned knowledge? I realize they probably all vary, but I suck at memorization and really great at understanding/applying. TIA.

what's your background, r6? Engineering?

I was surprised at the response you got. To me, having been a math major, this doesn't come across as cocky at all, just the way students like us are accustomed to doing business.

soonergirl wrote:

r6_philly wrote:While we are talking about outlines, are tests usually open book or not? Do they test acquired/remembered knowledge or ability to apply the learned knowledge? I realize they probably all vary, but I suck at memorization and really great at understanding/applying. TIA.

what's your background, r6? Engineering?

I was surprised at the response you got. To me, having been a math major, this doesn't come across as cocky at all, just the way students like us are accustomed to doing business.

Thanks for understanding My background: Math -> Mech. Engineering -> Computer Science. Analytical to the death.