Top Law Schools

Okay, so I am in the military and have some soldiers that are getting ready to get out and don't really have much of a plan of action on what they intend to do with their lives. Many of them are incredibly intelligent without much direction. Through the GI Bill program they have 4 years of 100% paid tuition with housing paid for if they go to any state school. (Plus incredibly cheap offers for some private schools.) A lot of them already have random bachelor's degrees but want to know what type of degree they can get to set themselves up for success in today's economy.

Needless to say, I have trouble recommending to them to attend law school as the market is over-saturated and there is not much light at the end of the tunnel. Maybe an MBA?? Master's degree in something with the intention of trying to teach?? I hear Computer Programmers can make bank??

Put yourselves in the shoes of someone who is in their mid-twenties, have a random non-engineering bachelor's degree, and basically a blank check to pay for whatever school you can get in to. Keep in mind that while job satisfaction is important - a lot of them just want the biggest paycheck they can find

There might be a good answer to this question if employment wasn't at 10%. With the credentials you described, you could advise the RN path. RNs make great money and are highly portable. Plus, the idea of a bunch of ex-military men working as nurses makes me laugh.

If they don't know what career path they want, MBA is the way to go. Its the most flexible of all graduate degrees.

MBA seems like the most popular option. I'm not sure that any of them would take the RN path into much consideration. Does anyone know if the MBA employment statistics published by the US News is as inaccurate as the JD ones?

lawschooliseasy wrote:There might be a good answer to this question if employment wasn't at 10%. With the credentials you described, you could advise the RN path. RNs make great money and are highly portable. Plus, the idea of a bunch of ex-military men working as nurses makes me laugh.

When employment reaches 10% you can tell them to book a one way ticket to Australia.

Does anyone know if the MBA employment statistics published by the US News is as inaccurate as the JD ones?

I would be almost certain of that- especially for those who don't have jobs going into them. I don't think MBAs are a good idea unless they are from a top school (Harvard, Wharton, etc.) or your employer pays for them (meaning you already have a job lined up).

If one's goal is to make a lot of money, the way to do it is to go into business for yourself. That's the honest truth.
If they can get into a top B-school or a top law school, then they can make decent money (but not crazy money).

If the goal is just to live a normal middle class life style, then PA school might not be a bad idea. There's also a huge shortage of speech pathologists right now.

If they don't know what career path they want, MBA is the way to go. Its the most flexible of all graduate degrees

Yes, but in the same way that English is the most flexible of undergraduate degrees. It prepares your for everything and nothing.

Going into business for themselves may not be the best move in this economy - plus i am really trying to advocate them using their GI Bill. (With the subsidizing the VA does for them, it will at least buy them time until they figure out what they truly want.)

I also don't think that if someone goes to a Tier 2 law program in today's market that they are guaranteed to make decent money - even if they were graduate in the top quarter of their class.

If it's the case that most of these people have B.A.'s already... MBA is a decent option, but I'd try to get them interested in specific career tracks. Graduate degrees are rarely the cakewalk that undergrad was, so it usually behooves a person to pick a field they are interested in. Right now, a lot of the medical/therapy professions have need, and are projected to continue to have it...

Physician's Assistant
Physical Therapist
Occupational Therapist
Mental Health Counselor

Also...

Financial Analysts
Computer Programmers/Engineers
Environmental Scientists

Just my two cents. Feel free to disagree, I'm just trying to brainstorm a little for the OP.

Snowdrifter wrote: Financial Analysts
Computer Programmers/Engineers
Environmental Scientists

That is easy to earn a decent living and really hard to make bank. Most CS grads are not good at it enough to make big money. Even if you are exceptional you are maxed at maybe $150-200k unless your company gets lucky and take off. And you have to be heads and shoulders better than the rest of the programmers. And as some majors will tell you, being exceptionally good at programming can't be taught/learned, it is a natural talent.

MIS is much better. MBA with a IT/MIS track is the way to go if you want to do software engineering. You can make serious bank if you get on track to a CTO/VP tech position.

I don't know what it is, but it ain't being a lawyer.

r6_philly wrote:

Snowdrifter wrote: Financial Analysts
Computer Programmers/Engineers
Environmental Scientists

That is easy to earn a decent living and really hard to make bank. Most CS grads are not good at it enough to make big money. Even if you are exceptional you are maxed at maybe $150-200k unless your company gets lucky and take off. And you have to be heads and shoulders better than the rest of the programmers. And as some majors will tell you, being exceptionally good at programming can't be taught/learned, it is a natural talent.

MIS is much better. MBA with a IT/MIS track is the way to go if you want to do software engineering. You can make serious bank if you get on track to a CTO/VP tech position.

Good points, r6_philly. I concede that MIS is likely to be a more reliable payout than a CS track.

Medical Fields usually pay the most money, but the truth is, you'll make money in any field as long as you bust your butt and have any brains. Please no more silly questions. I thoguht this thread was going to be along the lines of something like which law specialty is the most lucrative.

Snowdrifter and R6 - thanks a ton for the info. I had heard that financial analysts were a decent track to get on but being in the military and out of the job market loop, I was loath to suggest that in light of the current economic situation.

The CTO track with pursuing an IT/MIS MBA seems right up some of their alleys. I am definetely going to provide that as an option.

Whoever above said that this is a stupid thread because anyone who works hard will be succesful - go talk to the t14 law school grads who finished in the top quarter of their class but have to take an hourly rate because they can't find work. We are trying to have a productive conversation here to support the soldiers in my platoon who just got back from Iraq and came to me for some direction.

Not everyone who gets a MBA will do well. Remember your presonality and your particular skills has to support your chosen profession. To make good money you have to beat out competitors. If you excel at being a leader and are mature and responsible, you will do great with a MBA. That is so portable to any middle management position with the option to climb up toward a VP/Exec. position. IT/MIS is just trendy and usually free of other middle management competition because you need some technical expertise to qualify for the job. So MBA w/ IT is more portable. You can transition from MIS to any other management except maybe finance, but you can't transition from another middle management position to MIS as well with just a MBA. They have post-bac certificates just for that purpose, but you will be a leg up if you had some tech background and make it a part of your MBA.

medicine

stoicjustice wrote:Snowdrifter and R6 - thanks a ton for the info. I had heard that financial analysts were a decent track to get on but being in the military and out of the job market loop, I was loath to suggest that in light of the current economic situation.

The CTO track with pursuing an IT/MIS MBA seems right up some of their alleys. I am definetely going to provide that as an option.

Whoever above said that this is a stupid thread because anyone who works hard will be succesful - go talk to the t14 law school grads who finished in the top quarter of their class but have to take an hourly rate because they can't find work. We are trying to have a productive conversation here to support the soldiers in my platoon who just got back from Iraq and came to me for some direction.

I tried to help you out and tell you that medicine is the way to go. I'm sorry if you didn't like my answer but it's the truth. Those T14 guys probably didn't cut it in the real world and didn't work hard. Yes it's a difficult economy, but it takes time and patience.

RP1983 wrote:

stoicjustice wrote:Snowdrifter and R6 - thanks a ton for the info. I had heard that financial analysts were a decent track to get on but being in the military and out of the job market loop, I was loath to suggest that in light of the current economic situation.

The CTO track with pursuing an IT/MIS MBA seems right up some of their alleys. I am definetely going to provide that as an option.

Whoever above said that this is a stupid thread because anyone who works hard will be succesful - go talk to the t14 law school grads who finished in the top quarter of their class but have to take an hourly rate because they can't find work. We are trying to have a productive conversation here to support the soldiers in my platoon who just got back from Iraq and came to me for some direction.

I tried to help you out and tell you that medicine is the way to go. I'm sorry if you didn't like my answer but it's the truth. Those T14 guys probably didn't cut it in the real world and didn't work hard. Yes it's a difficult economy, but it takes time and patience.

+1 to this, especially recommending the medical field. And whoever is acting like law isn't a great career to make money is full of crap. 90% of the people on this site wouldn't be going into law if they didn't think they would end up making big money. Sure there are people in law that don't make tons of money, but that holds true for every career. On the other hand, there are also a lot of people in law making insane amounts of money and not just in biglaw. The potential to make a lot of money as a lawyer is a lot higher than most other fields (excluding medicine of course).

But you have to remember smarter and more capable person will have more potential regardless of career choice. In every career there are some people who will do great, and if you had to squeeze them into a new mold, they will still do great. As for the people who under perform their professions, well they will do that no matter what the profession is. This should hold true to maybe 90% of the people. The other 10% will probably find amazing talent in some special field but maybe they never find out.

Bad lawyers will make bad doctors, bad nurses, bad cops, bad programmers, bad teachers, bad thieves, bad frauds, bad criminals, bad beggars.

stoicjustice wrote:Okay, so I am in the military and have some soldiers that are getting ready to get out and don't really have much of a plan of action on what they intend to do with their lives. Many of them are incredibly intelligent without much direction. Through the GI Bill program they have 4 years of 100% paid tuition with housing paid for if they go to any state school. (Plus incredibly cheap offers for some private schools.) A lot of them already have random bachelor's degrees but want to know what type of degree they can get to set themselves up for success in today's economy.

Needless to say, I have trouble recommending to them to attend law school as the market is over-saturated and there is not much light at the end of the tunnel. Maybe an MBA?? Master's degree in something with the intention of trying to teach?? I hear Computer Programmers can make bank??

Put yourselves in the shoes of someone who is in their mid-twenties, have a random non-engineering bachelor's degree, and basically a blank check to pay for whatever school you can get in to. Keep in mind that while job satisfaction is important - a lot of them just want the biggest paycheck they can find

special forces--->blackwater---->$$$$$$

.

r6_philly wrote:Bad lawyers will make bad doctors, bad nurses, bad cops, bad programmers, bad teachers, bad thieves, bad frauds, bad criminals, bad beggars.

I can't say that I agree with you here. Granted, there are individuals out there that will see success no matter what route they may take and there are individuals out there that could be handed a silver spoon and spit it out, but there are also individuals out there that are talented and have the potential to be successful but are in careers that they have no desire or passion to be in. Speaking on your example, I'm sure there's someone out there that did well in school and took the path towards law school only to graduate and discover that they didn't like the long hours, the loads of paperwork, the confrontation, the deception, etc... They may have made great doctors because in medicine you aren't required to have the same traits as you would have to be successful as a doctor. The same can be said for a lawyer who hasn't found the right path within the broad spectrum of law, etc.

Something that hasn't been mentioned yet is a Masters in Accounting (MAcc), accounting is a pretty stable industry and all organizations MUST have accountants. I'm doing my commerce undergrad with a focus in accounting and love it. I have a job set up at a big 4 when I graduate to do my 3 years of articling and get the CA designation (CPA in the U.S). It's a very versatile designation and has some big advantages over a MBA, and I would argue it is more useful for people trying to get into industry and climb the corporate ladder than a MBA or a JD (unless of course its Harvard, Stanford, etc.)

Just my 2 cents though.

if they are former officers, MBA can be a great path. top programs like the experience and will often admit ex-military. unfortunately, this does not apply to enlisted (which i find utterly distasteful). the problem with MBA is the steep drop off after the top 10 programs (kind of like law school). a lesser-ranked mba program can actually be burdensome w/o relevant work experience (the over-qualified problem) so if they want to go that path they should seek employment first and part-time mba on the side.

a top law school can be a good way to make money, but once again be wary of the lower ranked programs.

med-school is an option, but there is an intense "pre med" track to undertake, which would be a year of coursework at a minimum.

engineering/accounting/actuarial/etc are all safe careers that provide decent income, and that are relatively easy to break into (probably a relevant graduate degree would suffice).

Masters or Phd in CS, Engineering, anything of that sort is most likely out of the question unless they already have a Bachelors in this field. Since they are soldiers I'm assuming that they don't have a degree in anything science heavy, so MBA would be the most flexible of advanced degrees that doesn't really require a certain education in undergrad like medicine or engineering does. Maybe your friends can take their GI bill and pursue a second bachelors rather than a graduate degree, a B.S. in engineering or CS could probably be done in 2 or 3 years and still net you a good starting income.

But if education will be free and your friends are indeed bright people then why not just take a shot at the LSAT and see what law schools they can get into?

Snow Drifter:

Your avatar is full of win.