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Aside from NYC, LA, DC, and Chicago, what are some of the better legal markets in the country? I live in Utah and am not interested in practicing here. I think the market is weak and shows few signs of improving.

What cities/regions are good places to launch a career for someone that isn't dead set on Biglaw?
What are other bad cities that you know of?

We all understand the market as a whole is quite depressing, but humor me and play along. The recession will end eventually and I'd like to know some places to look at attending a regional school.

Anyone? How about just an opinion of the legal market in your hometown/region? I know not everyone is from the big city.

Austin is a shrinking legal market from what I've been told. San Antonio barely registers, but is growing population wise. Dallas is a monster, as is Houston.

That's all I know for the Texas front.

citrus2010 wrote:Aside from NYC, LA, DC, and Chicago, what are some of the better legal markets in the country? I live in Utah and am not interested in practicing here. I think the market is weak and shows few signs of improving.

What cities/regions are good places to launch a career for someone that isn't dead set on Biglaw?
What are other bad cities that you know of?

We all understand the market as a whole is quite depressing, but humor me and play along. The recession will end eventually and I'd like to know some places to look at attending a regional school.

What exactly are you basing that on? The Salt Lake City tech market seems to be expanding to me, and with it the law support system.

Also, New Mexico seems to be rather insulated from the effect the rest of the nation is experiencing. I actually know of a few firms there expanding their internship programs this year instead of cutting back.

I agree the mountain west is quite insulated from the busted economy, but tech industry or not, Utah is about 10 years away from being a competitive market for any business. The entertainment business is doing more than the tech industry. Utah is just too gullible. Too many scams, get rich quick schemes and far too many uneducated people.

citrus2010 wrote:I agree the mountain west is quite insulated from the busted economy, but tech industry or not, Utah is about 10 years away from being a competitive market for any business. The entertainment business is doing more than the tech industry. Utah is just too gullible. Too many scams, get rich quick schemes and far too many uneducated people.

Let me point out that among the 50 states, Utah ranks 5th for percentage of people with a high school degree or better. Beyond this, your post is full of fail.

The Mountain West as a whole (Slc included) has its share of strong secondary markets. I tend to think the utah market may be stronger than you think compared to some similar markets in this economy (for example-arizona)

Stronger than Arizona, yes.

High school degree doesn't count as educated IMO, nor do associates degrees in nursing, dental assisting, etc.

Working with Utah's World Trade Center, I know there are new niche markets, but overall Utah offers little to the legal profession.

IDK how anyone can think the Mountain West is doing well unless they're somehow excluding the Phoenix, Denver, and Las Vegas markets (three markets that are larger than SLC and New Mexico) from their definition of Mountain West.

There are no legal markets in Ohio. Don't look here (especially if you're c/o 2013).

TipTravHoot wrote:There are no legal markets in Ohio. Don't look here (especially if you're c/o 2013).

Ohio is a pretty big legal market in terms of # of attorneys. Cleveland, Cincinnati, and Columbus all rank in the top 30.

What about San Diego?

JSUVA2012 wrote:IDK how anyone can think the Mountain West is doing well unless they're somehow excluding the Phoenix, Denver, and Las Vegas markets (three markets that are larger than SLC and New Mexico) from their definition of Mountain West.

This

JSUVA2012 wrote:

TipTravHoot wrote:There are no legal markets in Ohio. Don't look here (especially if you're c/o 2013).

Ohio is a pretty big legal market in terms of # of attorneys. Cleveland, Cincinnati, and Columbus all rank in the top 30.

TipTravHoot wrote:

JSUVA2012 wrote:

TipTravHoot wrote:There are no legal markets in Ohio. Don't look here (especially if you're c/o 2013).

Ohio is a pretty big legal market in terms of # of attorneys. Cleveland, Cincinnati, and Columbus all rank in the top 30.

I certainly won't be bidding on them.

JSUVA2012 wrote:I certainly won't be bidding on them.

Woohoo!

One T14er down, 6,000 to go!

If I were just going to pick a non NY/DC/LA/Chi market to plant my flag without taking into account family/friends etc, I'd go with Atlanta. Pay is not far off the major markets, it seems to be growing, and the quality of living is nice.

I'd most avoid Philly.

Anyone know anything about Seattle?

What about NC markets?

A lot of NY/DC firms have offices there, as do some of the southern firms. Salaries are good and the state is much more family friendly.

The problem: UNC and Duke are both out of my reach and Charlotte Law School is lower ranked than I'd like to go.

echoi wrote:Anyone know anything about Seattle?

I don't know, but I would like to if anyone knows about Seattle. I was thinking about his today, and wondering if it might be a little crowded because it has two tier one law schools. I don't know how old either school is but I think they've been around for a while. That's a lot of graduates every year and even though UW has a strong ranking, TLS still calls it a regional school so I'm guessing that means lots of people try to stay put after graduation. Seattle is probably a big spot for Gonzaga grads too.

Also, what can anybody say about Dallas specifically? It has NYC pay and Omaha cost of living or less. Looks pretty dang nice to me. What about practical stuff like morning freeway traffic, public transportation, etc.

ec2xs wrote:Austin is a shrinking legal market from what I've been told. San Antonio barely registers, but is growing population wise. Dallas is a monster, as is Houston.

That's all I know for the Texas front.

This. / thread

davipatr wrote:Also, what can anybody say about Dallas specifically? It has NYC pay and Omaha cost of living or less. Looks pretty dang nice to me. What about practical stuff like morning freeway traffic, public transportation, etc.

traffic is rough (it is Texas after all where everybody drives all the time) and public transportation is weak. That being said, the people are friendly, the food is good, and living is relatively inexpensive. So as long as you don't mind the weather it has a lot going for it.

davipatr wrote:

echoi wrote:Anyone know anything about Seattle?

I don't know, but I would like to if anyone knows about Seattle. I was thinking about his today, and wondering if it might be a little crowded because it has two tier one law schools. I don't know how old either school is but I think they've been around for a while. That's a lot of graduates every year and even though UW has a strong ranking, TLS still calls it a regional school so I'm guessing that means lots of people try to stay put after graduation. Seattle is probably a big spot for Gonzaga grads too.

Seattle only has one tier 1 law school, SU is tier 2. From the research I have done, the Seattle legal market does seem to be a little crowded, at least for biglaw. It seems as though Seattle biglaw is pretty much hires T14 and UW grads, you would have to be at the very top of your class at SU to have a shot, and it would be pretty hard to break in from an out of region non-T14 school. For non-biglaw jobs I think things are a bit better, but SU does have a relatively huge class size (more than twice as big as UW), and I have heard that many graduates there have a tough time finding decent jobs at all given that they have to compete with UW grads and grads from many higher ranked schools trying to find jobs in Seattle because of the desirability of the location. Also, there are a few L&C grads in Seattle, but most Gonzaga grads stay in eastern WA and ID, Gonzaga's primary markets are Spokane, Cour d'Alene,Yakima, Wenatchee, and the Tri Cities. Needless to say, there is no biglaw in any of those places.

Nothing about North Carolina markets? ANYONE?

It seems ironic to me that a Utah resident would consider Utah a poor legal market.

Based on Department of Labor statistics (http://www.careerinfonet.org/occ_rep.as ... &search=Go), law graduates in Utah would likely have little trouble finding legal work.

Specifically, the Department of Labor projects 280 yearly job Openings for Lawyers in Utah. Considering that the two law schools in Utah graduate a total of 281 law school graduates yearly (i.e. one state law school graduate per legal job opening), this seems like a quite uncrowded legal market indeed.

Consider on the other end of the spectrum a crowded state like New York. The fifteen New York law schools together produce 4305 law school graduates yearly. With the Department of Labor projecting 1700 yearly legal job openings, this means there would be only one legal job opening for every 2.5 state law school graduates.

davipatr wrote:

echoi wrote:Anyone know anything about Seattle?

I don't know, but I would like to if anyone knows about Seattle. I was thinking about his today, and wondering if it might be a little crowded because it has two tier one law schools. I don't know how old either school is but I think they've been around for a while. That's a lot of graduates every year and even though UW has a strong ranking, TLS still calls it a regional school so I'm guessing that means lots of people try to stay put after graduation. Seattle is probably a big spot for Gonzaga grads too.

Seattle is a very small legal market that attracts lots of highly qualified candidates. There are very, very few entry-level legal opportunities. Moreover, legal salaries in Seattle are disproportionately low in comparison to similar markets.