Top Law Schools

-The semi-socially awkward Harvard grad with proven analytical brilliance but difficulties in translating it through effective communication or the top 50 state-school charismatic, attractive, "street-smart" grad who made up for lack of intrinsic ability with hard work?

This is just one of a thousand potential hypotheticals of course... but the underlying question is: What actually gets you the job, not the interview, but the job?

With the overwhelming emphasis on rankings, statistics, generalized notions/impressions of schools, etc, are we overlooking some of the more impactful traits that firms look for?

Every job I've ever gotten (100k+ finance) has been because of exhibiting great communication/people skills during the interiew. I made the owner/hiring manager laugh. I drop clever jokes, etc. Not a single company has ever asked any detailed question about my UG experience, major, GPA, etc. I'm an attractive looking guy. I also dress well. Are we overlooking the (albeit superficial/flawed) aspects of what actually gets you the job?

Do you jump on the hiring manager's couch like the real Tom Cruise?

reasonabledoubt wrote:-The semi-socially awkward Harvard grad with proven analytical brilliance but difficulties in translating it through effective communication or the top 50 state-school charismatic, attractive, "street-smart" grad who made up for lack of intrinsic ability with hard work?

This is just one of a thousand potential hypotheticals of course... but the underlying question is: What actually gets you the job, not the interview, but the job?

With the overwhelming emphasis on rankings, statistics, generalized notions/impressions of schools, etc, are we overlooking some of the more impactful traits that firms look for?

Every job I've ever gotten (100k+ finance) has been because of exhibiting great communication/people skills during the interiew. I made the owner/hiring manager laugh. I drop clever jokes, etc. Not a single company has ever asked any detailed question about my UG experience, major, GPA, etc. I'm an attractive looking guy. I also dress well. Are we overlooking the (albeit superficial/flawed) aspects of what actually gets you the job?

Nope. Law firm hiring is different. Harvard guy wins 99 times out of 100. Thread/

reasonabledoubt wrote:
Every job I've ever gotten (100k+ finance) has been because of exhibiting great communication/people skills during the interiew. I made the owner/hiring manager laugh. I drop clever jokes, etc. Not a single company has ever asked any detailed question about my UG experience, major, GPA, etc. I'm an attractive looking guy. I also dress well. Are we overlooking the (albeit superficial/flawed) aspects of what actually gets you the job?

Then why are you applying to law school? Sounds like you should be applying for an MBA, or better yet a real job

Harvard

hth

OGR3 wrote:Do you jump on the hiring manager's couch like the real Tom Cruise?

lol - no, you know what I'm attempting to get at ITT. In the real world, this is the stuff that lands you the job, for better or worse. You have to have the ability, yes, but some of what we're obsessing over on TLS isn't going to matter in three years.

Networking, relationships, communication skills, appearance.....

reasonabledoubt wrote:-The semi-socially awkward Harvard grad with proven analytical brilliance but difficulties in translating it through effective communication or the top 50 state-school charismatic, attractive, "street-smart" grad who made up for lack of intrinsic ability with hard work?

This is just one of a thousand potential hypotheticals of course... but the underlying question is: What actually gets you the job, not the interview, but the job?

With the overwhelming emphasis on rankings, statistics, generalized notions/impressions of schools, etc, are we overlooking some of the more impactful traits that firms look for?

Every job I've ever gotten (100k+ finance) has been because of exhibiting great communication/people skills during the interiew. I made the owner/hiring manager laugh. I drop clever jokes, etc. Not a single company has ever asked any detailed question about my UG experience, major, GPA, etc. I'm an attractive looking guy. I also dress well. Are we overlooking the (albeit superficial/flawed) aspects of what actually gets you the job?

One of our friends of the family is a senior partner at a top firm, and he basically answered this question for me. He'd choose the T1 or T2 state school (as long as it was in his region) any day. He told us how he thinks that the T14 don't prep you as well for real world application as do some of the regional schools.

The guy with good grades who went to the same law school I did so I can pretend its just as good as Harvard.

reasonabledoubt wrote:-The semi-socially awkward Harvard grad with proven analytical brilliance but difficulties in translating it through effective communication or the top 50 state-school charismatic, attractive, "street-smart" grad who made up for lack of intrinsic ability with hard work?

This is just one of a thousand potential hypotheticals of course... but the underlying question is: What actually gets you the job, not the interview, but the job?

With the overwhelming emphasis on rankings, statistics, generalized notions/impressions of schools, etc, are we overlooking some of the more impactful traits that firms look for?

Every job I've ever gotten (100k+ finance) has been because of exhibiting great communication/people skills during the interiew. I made the owner/hiring manager laugh. I drop clever jokes, etc. Not a single company has ever asked any detailed question about my UG experience, major, GPA, etc. I'm an attractive looking guy. I also dress well. Are we overlooking the (albeit superficial/flawed) aspects of what actually gets you the job?

you do realize that Davis Polk isn't Entourage right?

This reminds of a logic game where people can not be hired unless they are interviewed.

Which brings me to my point.. if they interview:

3 Harvard Grads
2 Stanford Grad
1 Duke Grad
1 Northwestern Grad

Then no matter how great that t40 applicant may be, he/she didn't get interviewed...

This is my delemna. I'd prefer not to drop 200k on a t14 law school education, but I would like to be on the interview list.

Is this a flawed perspective? I welcome advice, as I am still learning about all this.

Desert Fox wrote:

reasonabledoubt wrote:
Every job I've ever gotten (100k+ finance) has been because of exhibiting great communication/people skills during the interiew. I made the owner/hiring manager laugh. I drop clever jokes, etc. Not a single company has ever asked any detailed question about my UG experience, major, GPA, etc. I'm an attractive looking guy. I also dress well. Are we overlooking the (albeit superficial/flawed) aspects of what actually gets you the job?

Then why are you applying to law school? Sounds like you should be applying for an MBA, or better yet a real job

"Why Law" is a compelling, 2 (sometimes 2+) page answer for me that's far beyond the scope of this thread. With that said, law is where I belong.

OP, it seems like the answer you're looking for/believe is correct is the latter. I too hope this is true in the real world. However, TLS has somewhat biased me into believing the former

IMHO I think the answer to this question is going to depend on what specific firm you are talking about, who the hiring partners are, and a couple dozen other things that we can't take into consideration ITT. I think that generally speaking TLS (or at least some people on TLS) don't realize how important networking, being able to interview well, and maybe even good looks can be to getting a job.

At the same time, most people in the real world don't even come close to realizing how important rankings and grades are. So the two even each other out. I think if it were me as the hiring partner, I would want the state school grad, but that's just me.

of Benito Cereno wrote:

reasonabledoubt wrote:-The semi-socially awkward Harvard grad with proven analytical brilliance but difficulties in translating it through effective communication or the top 50 state-school charismatic, attractive, "street-smart" grad who made up for lack of intrinsic ability with hard work?

This is just one of a thousand potential hypotheticals of course... but the underlying question is: What actually gets you the job, not the interview, but the job?

With the overwhelming emphasis on rankings, statistics, generalized notions/impressions of schools, etc, are we overlooking some of the more impactful traits that firms look for?

Every job I've ever gotten (100k+ finance) has been because of exhibiting great communication/people skills during the interiew. I made the owner/hiring manager laugh. I drop clever jokes, etc. Not a single company has ever asked any detailed question about my UG experience, major, GPA, etc. I'm an attractive looking guy. I also dress well. Are we overlooking the (albeit superficial/flawed) aspects of what actually gets you the job?

you do realize that Davis Polk isn't Entourage right?

No, but take a look at DP's attorneys through their search feature and notice the wide range of law schools.... a considerable amount of lower ranking ls's, etc. --LinkRemoved--

The Harvard kid of course. You barely interact with people in the office in biglaw. The partners do all of the meetings with clients.

nycparalegal wrote:The Harvard kid of course. You barely interact with people in the office in biglaw. The partners do all of the meetings with clients.

Well..yeah...but all partners were once associates.

Pearalegal wrote:

nycparalegal wrote:The Harvard kid of course. You barely interact with people in the office in biglaw. The partners do all of the meetings with clients.

Well..yeah...but all partners were once associates.

Yes, but not all associates become partners. The kid could do alot of the difficult intellectual work, and he could then become of counsel or something like that.

reasonabledoubt wrote:

OGR3 wrote:Do you jump on the hiring manager's couch like the real Tom Cruise?

lol - no, you know what I'm attempting to get at ITT. In the real world, this is the stuff that lands you the job, for better or worse. You have to have the ability, yes, but some of what we're obsessing over on TLS isn't going to matter in three years.

Good looks are fleeting - HYS is forever.

pithypike wrote:

reasonabledoubt wrote:

OGR3 wrote:Do you jump on the hiring manager's couch like the real Tom Cruise?

lol - no, you know what I'm attempting to get at ITT. In the real world, this is the stuff that lands you the job, for better or worse. You have to have the ability, yes, but some of what we're obsessing over on TLS isn't going to matter in three years.

Good looks are fleeting - HYS is forever.

not true for males. we get better looking with age, n ot worse.

older = more money = more expensive wardrobe = better looking (as long as you stay in decent shape, that is)

reasonabledoubt wrote:-The semi-socially awkward Harvard grad with proven analytical brilliance but difficulties in translating it through effective communication or the top 50 state-school charismatic, attractive, "street-smart" grad who made up for lack of intrinsic ability with hard work?

this is a false choice because I am sure the career services office at Harvard combined with social pressure from peers would help the semi-socially awkward person learn how to dress, play the interview game, etc. I really doubt any law school grad will show up to the interview with the wrong kind of suit, wrong color shoes, and whatnot.

And anyway, law firms are usually characterized as "type a nerds". cool kids work at investment banks.

reasonabledoubt wrote:

of Benito Cereno wrote:

reasonabledoubt wrote:-The semi-socially awkward Harvard grad with proven analytical brilliance but difficulties in translating it through effective communication or the top 50 state-school charismatic, attractive, "street-smart" grad who made up for lack of intrinsic ability with hard work?

This is just one of a thousand potential hypotheticals of course... but the underlying question is: What actually gets you the job, not the interview, but the job?

With the overwhelming emphasis on rankings, statistics, generalized notions/impressions of schools, etc, are we overlooking some of the more impactful traits that firms look for?

Every job I've ever gotten (100k+ finance) has been because of exhibiting great communication/people skills during the interiew. I made the owner/hiring manager laugh. I drop clever jokes, etc. Not a single company has ever asked any detailed question about my UG experience, major, GPA, etc. I'm an attractive looking guy. I also dress well. Are we overlooking the (albeit superficial/flawed) aspects of what actually gets you the job?

you do realize that Davis Polk isn't Entourage right?

No, but take a look at DP's attorneys through their search feature and notice the wide range of law schools.... a considerable amount of lower ranking ls's, etc. --LinkRemoved--

you're right, there is a wide range there...michigan, columbia, harvard, duke, stanford...and that was just the Es!

reasonabledoubt wrote:

OGR3 wrote:Do you jump on the hiring manager's couch like the real Tom Cruise?

lol - no, you know what I'm attempting to get at ITT. In the real world, this is the stuff that lands you the job, for better or worse. You have to have the ability, yes, but some of what we're obsessing over on TLS isn't going to matter in three years.

Networking, relationships, communication skills, appearance.....

By and large, Harvard grades have all those things + HLS on their resume.

rayiner wrote:

reasonabledoubt wrote:

OGR3 wrote:Do you jump on the hiring manager's couch like the real Tom Cruise?

lol - no, you know what I'm attempting to get at ITT. In the real world, this is the stuff that lands you the job, for better or worse. You have to have the ability, yes, but some of what we're obsessing over on TLS isn't going to matter in three years.

Networking, relationships, communication skills, appearance.....

By and large, Harvard grades have all those things + HLS on their resume.

cr. The most socially awkward Harvard grad in the world still gets to go to alum functions at the Harvard Club and rub shoulders with some pretty useful people.

Depends mostly, I think, on the personality of the hiring partner. I have a legal (non-lawyer) job now that I got because I talked about my thesis on semiotics with the hiring partner. Had I interviewed with another partner who was really in to sports (which i know nothing about---I have no idea who's playing in the super bowl, or even when it is), I may not have gotten the job. Personally, as someone who's more reserved by nature, I more easily find people like your second choice (irrespective of school) as "slick" and therefore not my style. I think this is really what people refer to when they talk about "fit"--law firms hire people with similar or compatible personalities, the "culture" of the firm emerges from the accumulation of similar people hiring similar people. Big firms, obviously, are diverse enough for this to lose force.

Just some thoughts, haven't exactly worked them out.

housie07 wrote:

reasonabledoubt wrote:

of Benito Cereno wrote:

reasonabledoubt wrote:-The semi-socially awkward Harvard grad with proven analytical brilliance but difficulties in translating it through effective communication or the top 50 state-school charismatic, attractive, "street-smart" grad who made up for lack of intrinsic ability with hard work?

This is just one of a thousand potential hypotheticals of course... but the underlying question is: What actually gets you the job, not the interview, but the job?

With the overwhelming emphasis on rankings, statistics, generalized notions/impressions of schools, etc, are we overlooking some of the more impactful traits that firms look for?

Every job I've ever gotten (100k+ finance) has been because of exhibiting great communication/people skills during the interiew. I made the owner/hiring manager laugh. I drop clever jokes, etc. Not a single company has ever asked any detailed question about my UG experience, major, GPA, etc. I'm an attractive looking guy. I also dress well. Are we overlooking the (albeit superficial/flawed) aspects of what actually gets you the job?

you do realize that Davis Polk isn't Entourage right?

No, but take a look at DP's attorneys through their search feature and notice the wide range of law schools.... a considerable amount of lower ranking ls's, etc. --LinkRemoved--

you're right, there is a wide range there...michigan, columbia, harvard, duke, stanford...and that was just the Es!

I think Michigan and Duke speaks more to my point.... not exactly, but somewhat.