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Is there such thing as an "easier" UBE jurisdiction?
Posted: Tue Mar 23, 2021 4:56 am
by Anonymous User
I intend to practice in the federal realm, so it really doesn't matter which bar I apply for/take the exam in. Looking at statistics, it seems like some jurisdictions have a higher passage rate even though they're technically the same exam. Wonder if I should apply for one of the "easier" jurisdictions in hope of increasing my odds of passing. Is it safe to assume that some states (e.g. Iowa or Oregon) have easier essay graders and therefore pass more applicants or do you think it's because of a curve? I hear some jurisdictions have lower passage rates bc they have more foreign applicants. Just curious.
Re: Is there such thing as an "easier" UBE jurisdiction?
Posted: Tue Mar 23, 2021 9:28 am
by Fireworks2016
Anonymous User wrote: ↑Tue Mar 23, 2021 4:56 am
I intend to practice in the federal realm, so it really doesn't matter which bar I apply for/take the exam in. Looking at statistics, it seems like some jurisdictions have a higher passage rate even though they're technically the same exam. Wonder if I should apply for one of the "easier" jurisdictions in hope of increasing my odds of passing. Is it safe to assume that some states (e.g. Iowa or Oregon) have easier essay graders and therefore pass more applicants or do you think it's because of a curve? I hear some jurisdictions have lower passage rates bc they have more foreign applicants. Just curious.
If it were me, I'd spend zero time thinking about this and instead focus on passing the minimal-competency exam. Even if there is some slight difference, the odds of it affecting you specifically are infinitesimal.
Take the bar in the UBE state you're most likely to live/work, or your home state, or the state where your law school is located.
Re: Is there such thing as an "easier" UBE jurisdiction?
Posted: Tue Mar 23, 2021 10:27 am
by cavalier1138
This is a totally useless idea. The only "easier" jurisdictions are the ones with lower passing-score thresholds. But you also shouldn't base your decision on that. There absolutely will be utility in being certified in the state where you actually live/practice (yes, even if you "intend to practice in the federal realm").
Re: Is there such thing as an "easier" UBE jurisdiction?
Posted: Tue Mar 23, 2021 12:49 pm
by SilvermanBarPrep
I agree with the sentiments already expressed here. Some jurisdictions have lower cut scores but that shouldn't affect your analysis much. It's not much of a difference.
Sean (Silverman Bar Exam Tutoring)
Re: Is there such thing as an "easier" UBE jurisdiction?
Posted: Thu Mar 25, 2021 12:23 pm
by FND
I disagree with the above. If you're worried about passing, and if you have a job offer in the federal realm and it doesn't matter where you're admitted, take the bar in a UBE state with a low passing score, like Minnesota or Alabama (260 pass rate). Then, if your score is good enough, transfer your score and ALSO get admitted in your home state.
If your score is lower than your home state, the good news is that you got admitted somewhere
If your score is higher than your home state, the bad news is that you paid extra to get admitted in two states.
Relative to the cost of law school, that's a pretty cheap insurance policy. Of course, it's only worthwhile if you have a job offer in the federal realm. If you don't have a job yet, good luck getting one if you're not admitted locally.
Re: Is there such thing as an "easier" UBE jurisdiction?
Posted: Thu Mar 25, 2021 2:02 pm
by Fireworks2016
FND wrote: ↑Thu Mar 25, 2021 12:23 pm
I disagree with the above. If you're worried about passing, and if you have a job offer in the federal realm and it doesn't matter where you're admitted, take the bar in a UBE state with a low passing score, like Minnesota or Alabama (260 pass rate). Then, if your score is good enough, transfer your score and ALSO get admitted in your home state.
If your score is lower than your home state, the good news is that you got admitted somewhere
If your score is higher than your home state, the bad news is that you paid extra to get admitted in two states.
Relative to the cost of law school, that's a pretty cheap insurance policy. Of course, it's only worthwhile if you have a job offer in the federal realm. If you don't have a job yet, good luck getting one if you're not admitted locally.
But OP is not asking about taking the state with the lowest cut-rate score -- they want to read the tea leaves of pass rate % to find a state that in theory does not "grade as hard," even if they have the same UBE score threshold.
And I think you've got it backwards. Why wouldn't you take the bar in your home state, so that if you pass you're done, but if you're above the cut-score from a jdx like Minnesota, then you transfer your score and begin C+F there? Why spend the extra money up front?
Re: Is there such thing as an "easier" UBE jurisdiction?
Posted: Thu Mar 25, 2021 7:57 pm
by FND
Fireworks2016 wrote: ↑Thu Mar 25, 2021 2:02 pm
FND wrote: ↑Thu Mar 25, 2021 12:23 pm
I disagree with the above. If you're worried about passing, and if you have a job offer in the federal realm and it doesn't matter where you're admitted, take the bar in a UBE state with a low passing score, like Minnesota or Alabama (260 pass rate). Then, if your score is good enough, transfer your score and ALSO get admitted in your home state.
If your score is lower than your home state, the good news is that you got admitted somewhere
If your score is higher than your home state, the bad news is that you paid extra to get admitted in two states.
Relative to the cost of law school, that's a pretty cheap insurance policy. Of course, it's only worthwhile if you have a job offer in the federal realm. If you don't have a job yet, good luck getting one if you're not admitted locally.
But OP is not asking about taking the state with the lowest cut-rate score -- they want to read the tea leaves of pass rate % to find a state that in theory does not "grade as hard," even if they have the same UBE score threshold.
And I think you've got it backwards. Why wouldn't you take the bar in your home state, so that if you pass you're done, but if you're above the cut-score from a jdx like Minnesota, then you transfer your score and begin C+F there? Why spend the extra money up front?
I said if OP is worried about passing, it makes sense to go for a low cut-score state. A 260 is a lot easier than, say, Alaska's 280. I'd hate to be off by a point!
Re: Is there such thing as an "easier" UBE jurisdiction?
Posted: Sun Apr 11, 2021 5:01 pm
by Rogah
My home state is Nevada, with no UBE, no reciprocity with anyone, a carload of local law on its exam*, and a first-time pass rate of about 70%. I expect to work with a national public interest law firm that, during an externship there, actually suggested taking the bar in an "easy" state. I'm taking it in Missouri, which has a UBE score requirement of 260, about an 84% first-time pass rate, and a trivially easy state law requirement. Also, my impression is that Nevada's C&F application is substantially more of a PITA than is Missouri's.
Other things being equal, would I prefer Nevada membership? Sure. But I have strong personal reasons for wanting to pass on the first try.
*Barbri's 2019-2020 Conviser Mini Review for Nevada has 111 Nevada-specific pages.
Re: Is there such thing as an "easier" UBE jurisdiction?
Posted: Mon Apr 12, 2021 5:56 am
by cavalier1138
Rogah wrote: ↑Sun Apr 11, 2021 5:01 pm
My home state is Nevada, with no UBE, no reciprocity with anyone, a carload of local law on its exam*, and a first-time pass rate of about 70%. I expect to work with a national public interest law firm that, during an externship there, actually suggested taking the bar in an "easy" state. I'm taking it in Missouri, which has a UBE score requirement of 260, about an 84% first-time pass rate, and a trivially easy state law requirement. Also, my
impression is that Nevada's C&F application is substantially more of a PITA than is Missouri's.
Other things being equal, would I prefer Nevada membership? Sure. But I have strong personal reasons for wanting to pass on the first try.
*Barbri's 2019-2020 Conviser Mini Review for Nevada has 111 Nevada-specific pages.
How is this related to the OP's question? They're only asking about whether there is such a thing as an "easier" UBE jurisdiction, not whether the UBE is itself easier than non-UBE state bars.
Re: Is there such thing as an "easier" UBE jurisdiction?
Posted: Mon Apr 12, 2021 8:29 am
by nixy
OP (who I kinda assumed Rogah was), what is your school's pass rate and what is your class rank? If your school has a strong pass rate and you've done fine on exams, this isn't really worth trying to parse so finely. Go with whichever state is logistically easiest.
Re: Is there such thing as an "easier" UBE jurisdiction?
Posted: Mon Apr 12, 2021 6:22 pm
by Rogah
cavalier1138 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 12, 2021 5:56 am
How is this related to the OP's question? They're only asking about whether there is such a thing as an "easier" UBE jurisdiction, not whether the UBE is itself easier than non-UBE state bars.
Right, it's only partially related. Delete it if you like. The partially part is MO's low score requirement, for which it's tied with, IIRC, 5 other states; and its high (highest, I think) first-time pass rate.