Failed again cali bar

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nixy

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Re: Failed again cali bar

Post by nixy » Thu May 14, 2020 12:59 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Wed May 13, 2020 12:01 am
New May 14 letter regarding california bar acknowledges potential for bias in the current grading process.
Could you give the actual language used?

nixy

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Re: Failed again cali bar

Post by nixy » Thu May 14, 2020 1:01 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Tue May 12, 2020 1:12 pm
Not sure how many of you have had ABA accommodations, but I have heard that the stacks of essays for those with extra time are actually graded in a separate stack that is graded more strictly than other essays.

If it's true (not sure if it is), then it probably would be in violation of many ADA regulations / be discriminatory.

I'm unaware of any ADA audits to ensure that the California bar does not flag certain essays.

California bar shouldn't be in the business of grading the essays, they have a conflict of interest and are more interested in ensuring revenue than licensing.
All states grade their own essays. Who else is going to do it? The individual graders (who aren't the people running the state bar) get paid the same whether you pass or fail.

sarahd32186

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Re: Failed again cali bar

Post by sarahd32186 » Fri May 15, 2020 11:15 am

First, dont give up. As someone who failed the bar on my first attempt I can tell you - you will pass. You need to try something different than what you have been doing at all. Allow yourself to try new approaches as doing the same basic thing is not working for you in terms of your preparation.

sachmoSD

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Re: Failed again cali bar

Post by sachmoSD » Sat May 16, 2020 2:53 pm

First of all - very sorry that you were so close (that you got a second read) but still unsuccessful. That has to suck. Just don't give up. You are very close.

Here are my couple of points of encouragement:
1. Your MBE is pheonomenal. 88 percentile nationally is very high (BTW, what does that translate to as scaled score?). You have already conquered the toughest part of the bar exam. Stay the course and you are going to crush it the next time!

2. The PT was extraordinarily horrible this time. It was just a disastrous test altogether - the law, the facts, the expectated answer - all were undisputedly complex. So, any "curve" notwithstanding, your low score on PT is not a reflection necessarily of your capability or any predictor of how you will perform in the future exam. Chalk this score (and PT) off to being a really unfortunate and complex curve-ball which will likely not be repeated. You will do much better in the next PT.

3. At the risk of repeating myself - don't let off your MBE preparation. Maintain your supremacy there and you will come out with flying colors.

Good luck to you. Feel free to reach out to me if you need any specific help or tips, etc. (I took the February bar as a first-time taker and passed. I also thought that the PT was horrible and I suspect my lowest score was on the PT).

sachmoSD

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Re: Failed again cali bar

Post by sachmoSD » Sun May 17, 2020 2:36 am

sachmoSD wrote:
Sat May 16, 2020 2:53 pm
First of all - very sorry that you were so close (that you got a second read) but still unsuccessful. That has to suck. Just don't give up. You are very close.

Here are my couple of points of encouragement:
1. Your MBE is pheonomenal. 88 percentile nationally is very high (BTW, what does that translate to as scaled score?). You have already conquered the toughest part of the bar exam. Stay the course and you are going to crush it the next time!

2. The PT was extraordinarily horrible this time. It was just a disastrous test altogether - the law, the facts, the expectated answer - all were undisputedly complex. So, any "curve" notwithstanding, your low score on PT is not a reflection necessarily of your capability or any predictor of how you will perform in the future exam. Chalk this score (and PT) off to being a really unfortunate and complex curve-ball which will likely not be repeated. You will do much better in the next PT.

3. At the risk of repeating myself - don't let off your MBE preparation. Maintain your supremacy there and you will come out with flying colors.

Good luck to you. Feel free to reach out to me if you need any specific help or tips, etc. (I took the February bar as a first-time taker and passed. I also thought that the PT was horrible and I suspect my lowest score was on the PT).
And one more thing - you may consider doing the PT as the first (or second) question in the afternoon session. That way, you can dedicate more time to it if necessary and not leave it unfinished due to lack of time. The idea being if you do run out of time, it's less harmful to leave an essay unfinished (because it is only half the weightage of the PT) than leaving the PT unfinished.

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retaker_SF

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Re: Failed again cali bar

Post by retaker_SF » Mon May 18, 2020 1:45 pm

Bar exam essay grading is incredibly inconsistent and subjective. I think you're best served focusing on the MBE. Unfortunately the CA state bar, despite a Jan 2020 audit noting the issues with the CA state bar's essay grading, has continued it's intentionally opaque essay grading process. Look it up.
Last edited by cavalier1138 on Mon May 18, 2020 4:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Outed for anon abuse.

retaker_SF

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Re: Failed again cali bar

Post by retaker_SF » Mon May 18, 2020 5:50 pm

rcharter1978 wrote:
Thu May 14, 2020 12:49 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Thu May 14, 2020 12:02 pm
rcharter1978 wrote:
Wed May 13, 2020 4:35 pm
I wonder if the July pass rate was so high because people were able to get a refund at the last minute. I believe like 800 people did so, right?

This would reduce the total pool by 800 people who probably weren't going to pass and I'd think it would drive the pass rate up.

Not sure if there was an increase in first time Feb 2020 test takers because some people who had been refunded for the July 2019 exam instead chose to take the exam for the first time in February 2020.

If all that is true, it's possible that February pass rate was abnormally low because the people who were likely going to fail their first time in July, just failed for their first time in February.

IIRC February pass rate is historically lower either way.
The pass rate they announce is based off the people that complete the exam, not those that withdraw after starting it or finishing it. Almost certain from what I've been reading that the reason the pass rate is so low this past Feb is due to something regarding essay grading being unusual, as well as the scaling process going lower than ever bc mbe mean. So for many, a passing raw essay score in a February 2018 calculator is failing by February 2020 standards.

California Bar Exam will probably need to retroactively pass certain students IMO. We're in the middle of a pandemic. The September 2020 bar is going to be so messy. The last thing they should have is unnecessary people taking it, like those who are qualified to be attorneys and have certainly demonstrated they meet a standard beyond objective minimum competency. (especially if they're already working as a law clerk under attorney supervision)
The point would be that normally there would be a group of people in the July exam who would be unprepared and likely to fail, but because they are unable to withdraw they take the exam, finish it and end up failing. The July 2019 exam allowed these people to withdraw at the last minute and get a refund. Which 800 people did.

Assuming that these 800 or a good percentage of them were destined to fail on a first try....and signed up for February that means that there would be extra people in the February exam who were going to fail, even if they finished the exam.

LOL at the Cal Bar retroactively passing anyone. First, they don't need to. Second, that's a very slippery slope, because everyone is going to find an "exception" they for into.
These are extraordinary times, which call for responses that are not ordinary. Michigan just decided on a one day essay exam for its measure of minimum competence (bar exam). The State Bar of California is facing an important question of what is feasible. A feasible option is retroactively passing certain people who have met a standard of minimum competence. There are numerous reports regarding the state bar's grading practices not addressing minimum competence.

To think that the September bar exam will continue as normal or even as being planned is to disregard the reality of the situation. The reality calls for the bar to look at some of the existing testing for certain candidates of at least the most recent bar exam and determine whether they met a standard of minimum competence to practice law. The essays are already written. The MBE scores are already available. Why go through the headache of having an unnecessarily large test taking group this September administration of the bar exam?

Maybe there's a lack of vision? Not sure. But I think it's really reasonable and in light of other state bar decisions amid the pandemic, the state bar of CA looks quite regressive.
Last edited by cavalier1138 on Tue May 19, 2020 5:59 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Outed for anon abuse.

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rcharter1978

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Re: Failed again cali bar

Post by rcharter1978 » Mon May 18, 2020 11:42 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Mon May 18, 2020 5:50 pm
rcharter1978 wrote:
Thu May 14, 2020 12:49 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Thu May 14, 2020 12:02 pm
rcharter1978 wrote:
Wed May 13, 2020 4:35 pm
I wonder if the July pass rate was so high because people were able to get a refund at the last minute. I believe like 800 people did so, right?

This would reduce the total pool by 800 people who probably weren't going to pass and I'd think it would drive the pass rate up.

Not sure if there was an increase in first time Feb 2020 test takers because some people who had been refunded for the July 2019 exam instead chose to take the exam for the first time in February 2020.

If all that is true, it's possible that February pass rate was abnormally low because the people who were likely going to fail their first time in July, just failed for their first time in February.

IIRC February pass rate is historically lower either way.
The pass rate they announce is based off the people that complete the exam, not those that withdraw after starting it or finishing it. Almost certain from what I've been reading that the reason the pass rate is so low this past Feb is due to something regarding essay grading being unusual, as well as the scaling process going lower than ever bc mbe mean. So for many, a passing raw essay score in a February 2018 calculator is failing by February 2020 standards.

California Bar Exam will probably need to retroactively pass certain students IMO. We're in the middle of a pandemic. The September 2020 bar is going to be so messy. The last thing they should have is unnecessary people taking it, like those who are qualified to be attorneys and have certainly demonstrated they meet a standard beyond objective minimum competency. (especially if they're already working as a law clerk under attorney supervision)
The point would be that normally there would be a group of people in the July exam who would be unprepared and likely to fail, but because they are unable to withdraw they take the exam, finish it and end up failing. The July 2019 exam allowed these people to withdraw at the last minute and get a refund. Which 800 people did.

Assuming that these 800 or a good percentage of them were destined to fail on a first try....and signed up for February that means that there would be extra people in the February exam who were going to fail, even if they finished the exam.

LOL at the Cal Bar retroactively passing anyone. First, they don't need to. Second, that's a very slippery slope, because everyone is going to find an "exception" they for into.
These are extraordinary times, which call for responses that are not ordinary. Michigan just decided on a one day essay exam for its measure of minimum competence (bar exam). The State Bar of California is facing an important question of what is feasible. A feasible option is retroactively passing certain people who have met a standard of minimum competence. There are numerous reports regarding the state bar's grading practices not addressing minimum competence.

To think that the September bar exam will continue as normal or even as being planned is to disregard the reality of the situation. The reality calls for the bar to look at some of the existing testing for certain candidates of at least the most recent bar exam and determine whether they met a standard of minimum competence to practice law. The essays are already written. The MBE scores are already available. Why go through the headache of having an unnecessarily large test taking group this September administration of the bar exam?

Maybe there's a lack of vision? Not sure. But I think it's really reasonable and in light of other state bar decisions amid the pandemic, the state bar of CA looks quite regressive.
Is it really that extraordinary in this day and age? The bar was very likely eyeballing virtual options for the future and the technology is clearly available.

And even if it wasn't, the California bar has no motivation or reason to retroactively pass anyone.

California is not suffering for attorneys, so there isn't some extraordinary need.

And once the California bar makes that decision the question is, who gets the retroactively pass? If it's by 20 points why not 30? Why not 40? Why not 45? Why not 50?

Everyone who failed would argue that they are really quite competent and were close enough so that their score should allow them to be barred. And if you admit that people who were 20 points off are competent, isn't that fundamentally unfair to others who didn't pass in earlier administrations of the exam by 20 points or less?

I mean, we'll see but if I certainly wouldn't hold by breath if I were a test taker.

sachmoSD

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Re: Failed again cali bar

Post by sachmoSD » Thu Jun 18, 2020 1:32 am

OP - just read your PM. Sorry about the late reply - I am (apparently) unable to reply to your PM via TLS. Please PM me with your email address so I can reply/respond in greater detail.

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galactiis

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Re: Failed again cali bar

Post by galactiis » Tue Jun 23, 2020 11:47 am

How many essays are there under the new format? I thought it was five, does that mean you didn't pass two? And the three you passed what were the scores there?

JDJM6215

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Re: Failed again cali bar

Post by JDJM6215 » Fri Jun 26, 2020 12:45 pm

Do not give up. I did pass the Feb 2020 after taking the test 7 times, I am now licensed. You can do this. If you would like tips, I am providing on zoom meetings each week. They only last 30 minutes one day a week and I repost the recordings on MTYLT facebook page for those who can't attend. Next meeting is Tuesday at 6 p.m., and we have a person who took the FYLSE online this week telling us about the experience of taking the baby bar online. I always invite a guest from tutors, to owners of smaller bar review programs, etc. If you would like to attend, PM me and I'll add you to the invite.

b290

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Re: Failed again cali bar

Post by b290 » Tue Jun 30, 2020 12:05 am

Hey there. You can do it. You likely got screwed by a nasty curve. But you can’t control that, so don’t worry about it.

I won’t go too much into detail because everyone largely been covered. Going off of your numbers, it’s clear that if you improve your writing and organization (esp for the PT) you’re golden. That was my issue when taking the bar exam (I still didn’t fix that much, I ended up getting most of my points from the MBE).

It took me taking the UBE 6 times to pass and get licensed. CA now also has the MBE as 50% of the score so you can pretty much maximize points there too.

You just need a “win” for your mental health. If I can do it (and my exam writing was horrendous), then you can.

My $.02

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