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I agree that OP will definitely have an issue if they don't seek admission. I did a little research into this, and some state's websites explicitly say that you cannot do this. For example, here's some of the language I found:yankees12345! wrote:This is likely to create issues for you OP. You need to find a courtesy admission state. Otherwise you’ll probably have to declare your intent to seek admission to the IL bar in the application. You could take the UBE, get admission to IL, then transfer the UBE score to NY. But that’s expensive and time consuming. Otherwise you’re exposed to ethical issues by falsely certifying your intent to gain admission in IL.
I’ve looked into this and basically decided to wait it out. May New York will come to their senses and offer the second administration at the end of September. My understanding right now is that only NJ, NH, and ME are courtesy admission states with a registration deadline that hasn’t passed for the September bar. And ME stopped accepting applications today cause they’re full. They maybe accept more if social distancing is relaxed by July. Even taking one of these and transferring it is going to cost and arm and a leg more than just taking New York. If you PM me, I can send you the little spreadsheet I made with this information.
If I had more motivation, I would put my efforts into pressuring New York to host that second fall administration. They are really stiffing a bunch of people for no good reason by not doing so.
Edit: Accidental anon, don’t know how to fix, I’m yankees12345!
Illinois is not courtesy seating but at the same time it does not require you to pledge to seek admission to the Bar in order to take the UBE.BOSStongrl wrote:I agree that OP will definitely have an issue if they don't seek admission. I did a little research into this, and some state's websites explicitly say that you cannot do this. For example, here's some of the language I found:yankees12345! wrote:This is likely to create issues for you OP. You need to find a courtesy admission state. Otherwise you’ll probably have to declare your intent to seek admission to the IL bar in the application. You could take the UBE, get admission to IL, then transfer the UBE score to NY. But that’s expensive and time consuming. Otherwise you’re exposed to ethical issues by falsely certifying your intent to gain admission in IL.
I’ve looked into this and basically decided to wait it out. May New York will come to their senses and offer the second administration at the end of September. My understanding right now is that only NJ, NH, and ME are courtesy admission states with a registration deadline that hasn’t passed for the September bar. And ME stopped accepting applications today cause they’re full. They maybe accept more if social distancing is relaxed by July. Even taking one of these and transferring it is going to cost and arm and a leg more than just taking New York. If you PM me, I can send you the little spreadsheet I made with this information.
If I had more motivation, I would put my efforts into pressuring New York to host that second fall administration. They are really stiffing a bunch of people for no good reason by not doing so.
Edit: Accidental anon, don’t know how to fix, I’m yankees12345!
"As the UBE in Tennessee is used to determine competency to practice law in Tennessee, only bona fide applicants to the Bar of Tennessee may seek admission by examination. Courtesy seating at the examination for applying for admission in another jurisdiction or already licensed in Tennessee is not permitted."
"By submitting an application to sit for the Vermont bar, applicants are certifying that they intend to become licensed in Vermont upon passage of the bar exam. Recall that false statements on a bar application can form the basis of professional disciplinary action."
The only states with courtesy seating are: Arizona, Arkansas, Montana, Nebraska, New Mexico, Iowa, Maine, and Oregon (it says Alaska too, but Alaska's website says they don't). This can be found on the NCBE's website (here: http://www.ncbex.org/assets/BarAdmissio ... _Final.pdf). So i'm not sure where you found that NJ and NH have courtesy seating. Unless i'm missing something which I hope I am. But NH's website explicitly says "NEW HAMPSHIRE DOES NOT OFFER COURTESY SEATING. Applicants are limited to those who are making good-faith applications to become members of the New Hampshire bar. "
But otherwise, Maine is full, the rest of the deadlines have passed except for MAYBE New Mexico- however you have to take a test similar to NY's NYLE which can be a pain.
So OP's options are basically to try for NM, or to seek admission to the jurisdiction and immediately waive into NY after passing the C&F- which can be expensive but If OP is in big law the expenses *shouldn't* be an issue. But i would NOT sit at a non-courtesy seating jurisdiction and not seek admission. Just don't do it.
I did a bit of research into it (bored AF and procrastinating from doing finals). Here's what i foundgoodmanste wrote:Illinois is not courtesy seating but at the same time it does not require you to pledge to seek admission to the Bar in order to take the UBE.BOSStongrl wrote:I agree that OP will definitely have an issue if they don't seek admission. I did a little research into this, and some state's websites explicitly say that you cannot do this. For example, here's some of the language I found:yankees12345! wrote:This is likely to create issues for you OP. You need to find a courtesy admission state. Otherwise you’ll probably have to declare your intent to seek admission to the IL bar in the application. You could take the UBE, get admission to IL, then transfer the UBE score to NY. But that’s expensive and time consuming. Otherwise you’re exposed to ethical issues by falsely certifying your intent to gain admission in IL.
I’ve looked into this and basically decided to wait it out. May New York will come to their senses and offer the second administration at the end of September. My understanding right now is that only NJ, NH, and ME are courtesy admission states with a registration deadline that hasn’t passed for the September bar. And ME stopped accepting applications today cause they’re full. They maybe accept more if social distancing is relaxed by July. Even taking one of these and transferring it is going to cost and arm and a leg more than just taking New York. If you PM me, I can send you the little spreadsheet I made with this information.
If I had more motivation, I would put my efforts into pressuring New York to host that second fall administration. They are really stiffing a bunch of people for no good reason by not doing so.
Edit: Accidental anon, don’t know how to fix, I’m yankees12345!
"As the UBE in Tennessee is used to determine competency to practice law in Tennessee, only bona fide applicants to the Bar of Tennessee may seek admission by examination. Courtesy seating at the examination for applying for admission in another jurisdiction or already licensed in Tennessee is not permitted."
"By submitting an application to sit for the Vermont bar, applicants are certifying that they intend to become licensed in Vermont upon passage of the bar exam. Recall that false statements on a bar application can form the basis of professional disciplinary action."
The only states with courtesy seating are: Arizona, Arkansas, Montana, Nebraska, New Mexico, Iowa, Maine, and Oregon (it says Alaska too, but Alaska's website says they don't). This can be found on the NCBE's website (here: http://www.ncbex.org/assets/BarAdmissio ... _Final.pdf). So i'm not sure where you found that NJ and NH have courtesy seating. Unless i'm missing something which I hope I am. But NH's website explicitly says "NEW HAMPSHIRE DOES NOT OFFER COURTESY SEATING. Applicants are limited to those who are making good-faith applications to become members of the New Hampshire bar. "
But otherwise, Maine is full, the rest of the deadlines have passed except for MAYBE New Mexico- however you have to take a test similar to NY's NYLE which can be a pain.
So OP's options are basically to try for NM, or to seek admission to the jurisdiction and immediately waive into NY after passing the C&F- which can be expensive but If OP is in big law the expenses *shouldn't* be an issue. But i would NOT sit at a non-courtesy seating jurisdiction and not seek admission. Just don't do it.
Can someone cite me something to prove me wrong?
Thanks for the info! This has been an insanely frustrating process. I'm curious as to why you say *maybe* New Mexico? Their website lists the final deadline as May 4th.BOSStongrl wrote:I agree that OP will definitely have an issue if they don't seek admission. I did a little research into this, and some state's websites explicitly say that you cannot do this. For example, here's some of the language I found:yankees12345! wrote:This is likely to create issues for you OP. You need to find a courtesy admission state. Otherwise you’ll probably have to declare your intent to seek admission to the IL bar in the application. You could take the UBE, get admission to IL, then transfer the UBE score to NY. But that’s expensive and time consuming. Otherwise you’re exposed to ethical issues by falsely certifying your intent to gain admission in IL.
I’ve looked into this and basically decided to wait it out. May New York will come to their senses and offer the second administration at the end of September. My understanding right now is that only NJ, NH, and ME are courtesy admission states with a registration deadline that hasn’t passed for the September bar. And ME stopped accepting applications today cause they’re full. They maybe accept more if social distancing is relaxed by July. Even taking one of these and transferring it is going to cost and arm and a leg more than just taking New York. If you PM me, I can send you the little spreadsheet I made with this information.
If I had more motivation, I would put my efforts into pressuring New York to host that second fall administration. They are really stiffing a bunch of people for no good reason by not doing so.
Edit: Accidental anon, don’t know how to fix, I’m yankees12345!
"As the UBE in Tennessee is used to determine competency to practice law in Tennessee, only bona fide applicants to the Bar of Tennessee may seek admission by examination. Courtesy seating at the examination for applying for admission in another jurisdiction or already licensed in Tennessee is not permitted."
"By submitting an application to sit for the Vermont bar, applicants are certifying that they intend to become licensed in Vermont upon passage of the bar exam. Recall that false statements on a bar application can form the basis of professional disciplinary action."
The only states with courtesy seating are: Arizona, Arkansas, Montana, Nebraska, New Mexico, Iowa, Maine, and Oregon (it says Alaska too, but Alaska's website says they don't). This can be found on the NCBE's website (here: http://www.ncbex.org/assets/BarAdmissio ... _Final.pdf). So i'm not sure where you found that NJ and NH have courtesy seating. Unless i'm missing something which I hope I am. But NH's website explicitly says "NEW HAMPSHIRE DOES NOT OFFER COURTESY SEATING. Applicants are limited to those who are making good-faith applications to become members of the New Hampshire bar. "
But otherwise, Maine is full, the rest of the deadlines have passed except for MAYBE New Mexico- however you have to take a test similar to NY's NYLE which can be a pain.
So OP's options are basically to try for NM, or to seek admission to the jurisdiction and immediately waive into NY after passing the C&F- which can be expensive but If OP is in big law the expenses *shouldn't* be an issue. But i would NOT sit at a non-courtesy seating jurisdiction and not seek admission. Just don't do it.
sorry to cause confusion! I only briefly looked into NM a while back and I wasn't positive what the due date was or whether it passed. Also wasn't sure if because they moved the date of the bar if the deadline moved as well. However, it looks like Oregon is actually still in play, so I should have cited that jurisdiction instead.doritoslocostacos316 wrote:Thanks for the info! This has been an insanely frustrating process. I'm curious as to why you say *maybe* New Mexico? Their website lists the final deadline as May 4th.BOSStongrl wrote:I agree that OP will definitely have an issue if they don't seek admission. I did a little research into this, and some state's websites explicitly say that you cannot do this. For example, here's some of the language I found:yankees12345! wrote:This is likely to create issues for you OP. You need to find a courtesy admission state. Otherwise you’ll probably have to declare your intent to seek admission to the IL bar in the application. You could take the UBE, get admission to IL, then transfer the UBE score to NY. But that’s expensive and time consuming. Otherwise you’re exposed to ethical issues by falsely certifying your intent to gain admission in IL.
I’ve looked into this and basically decided to wait it out. May New York will come to their senses and offer the second administration at the end of September. My understanding right now is that only NJ, NH, and ME are courtesy admission states with a registration deadline that hasn’t passed for the September bar. And ME stopped accepting applications today cause they’re full. They maybe accept more if social distancing is relaxed by July. Even taking one of these and transferring it is going to cost and arm and a leg more than just taking New York. If you PM me, I can send you the little spreadsheet I made with this information.
If I had more motivation, I would put my efforts into pressuring New York to host that second fall administration. They are really stiffing a bunch of people for no good reason by not doing so.
Edit: Accidental anon, don’t know how to fix, I’m yankees12345!
"As the UBE in Tennessee is used to determine competency to practice law in Tennessee, only bona fide applicants to the Bar of Tennessee may seek admission by examination. Courtesy seating at the examination for applying for admission in another jurisdiction or already licensed in Tennessee is not permitted."
"By submitting an application to sit for the Vermont bar, applicants are certifying that they intend to become licensed in Vermont upon passage of the bar exam. Recall that false statements on a bar application can form the basis of professional disciplinary action."
The only states with courtesy seating are: Arizona, Arkansas, Montana, Nebraska, New Mexico, Iowa, Maine, and Oregon (it says Alaska too, but Alaska's website says they don't). This can be found on the NCBE's website (here: http://www.ncbex.org/assets/BarAdmissio ... _Final.pdf). So i'm not sure where you found that NJ and NH have courtesy seating. Unless i'm missing something which I hope I am. But NH's website explicitly says "NEW HAMPSHIRE DOES NOT OFFER COURTESY SEATING. Applicants are limited to those who are making good-faith applications to become members of the New Hampshire bar. "
But otherwise, Maine is full, the rest of the deadlines have passed except for MAYBE New Mexico- however you have to take a test similar to NY's NYLE which can be a pain.
So OP's options are basically to try for NM, or to seek admission to the jurisdiction and immediately waive into NY after passing the C&F- which can be expensive but If OP is in big law the expenses *shouldn't* be an issue. But i would NOT sit at a non-courtesy seating jurisdiction and not seek admission. Just don't do it.
So a few things. First, even in a non-"courtesy seating" state, while you ultimately need to apply for admission to that state's bar, you can "port" the UBE score to NY and apply for NY bar admission via transferred UBE score as soon as the score comes out. You don't need to wait to be barred in IL before "porting" the UBE score to NY. So that's a plus.Anonymous User wrote:Not the OP and really confused now. Firm said they will cover all transfer-related fees if I took the UBE in another jurisdiction. Signed up for IL thinking I can just transfer the UBE score as another poster above mentioned. If all costs are going to be covered, is there any downside to taking in IL and transferring to NY? An earlier poster mentioned that the process is time consuming. How bad is it really to get admitted to IL first and then quickly transfer to NY?
All this is just so aggravating. Perhaps I should've known this before I registered for IL, but with finals + other stresses right now I didn't want to worry about spots filling up and having to take the bar in Feb. But now I'm even more worried. Can someone help me out here? Thank you.
QContinuum wrote: ↑Fri May 08, 2020 5:25 pmSo a few things. First, even in a non-"courtesy seating" state, while you ultimately need to apply for admission to that state's bar, you can "port" the UBE score to NY and apply for NY bar admission via transferred UBE score as soon as the score comes out. You don't need to wait to be barred in IL before "porting" the UBE score to NY. So that's a plus.Anonymous User wrote:Not the OP and really confused now. Firm said they will cover all transfer-related fees if I took the UBE in another jurisdiction. Signed up for IL thinking I can just transfer the UBE score as another poster above mentioned. If all costs are going to be covered, is there any downside to taking in IL and transferring to NY? An earlier poster mentioned that the process is time consuming. How bad is it really to get admitted to IL first and then quickly transfer to NY?
All this is just so aggravating. Perhaps I should've known this before I registered for IL, but with finals + other stresses right now I didn't want to worry about spots filling up and having to take the bar in Feb. But now I'm even more worried. Can someone help me out here? Thank you.
Second (and this is not Illinois-specific, and some of this may not even apply to IL), going through C&F can be a hassle. Even if your record is completely unblemished, you'll still need to get each of your employers (and employment's often defined very broadly, to include volunteer work, TA/RA positions, unpaid internships etc. which are typically not thought of as "employment") to fill out an additional employer affidavit. In some states this requirement only applies to "legal" employers, in others it applies to "all" employers. You'll need to get each of your moral character affirmants to fill out an additional letter of support. You'll potentially need to collect more records and forms from state DMVs and from your law school. Some of these forms may need to be wet-signed and mailed in; others may even need to be notarized. Don't underestimate the amount of work this takes.
Third, and this is the big kahuna, once you get admitted in IL, you'll be on the hook for ongoing CLE and registration fees and requirements. The fees will probably be OK, especially if your firm keeps covering them, but the ongoing CLE requirements may be a major pain. NY CLE may not satisfy IL's requirements. So that's a big minus. Some states have an "inactive" status where you can pay reduced fees and avoid CLE requirements if you don't practice in that state, but other states don't. You should check whether IL has "inactive" status. The worst states are those that don't even allow you to resign from the bar - CA falls into this camp. Once you get in, you're forced to keep doing CLE and paying registration fees until you die (!). It's possible to simply not comply and fall out of good standing, but that could make it challenging to get admitted to any other state bars down the road.
Thanks for the detailed reply, it's much appreciated!QContinuum wrote: ↑Fri May 08, 2020 5:25 pmSo a few things. First, even in a non-"courtesy seating" state, while you ultimately need to apply for admission to that state's bar, you can "port" the UBE score to NY and apply for NY bar admission via transferred UBE score as soon as the score comes out. You don't need to wait to be barred in IL before "porting" the UBE score to NY. So that's a plus.Anonymous User wrote:Not the OP and really confused now. Firm said they will cover all transfer-related fees if I took the UBE in another jurisdiction. Signed up for IL thinking I can just transfer the UBE score as another poster above mentioned. If all costs are going to be covered, is there any downside to taking in IL and transferring to NY? An earlier poster mentioned that the process is time consuming. How bad is it really to get admitted to IL first and then quickly transfer to NY?
All this is just so aggravating. Perhaps I should've known this before I registered for IL, but with finals + other stresses right now I didn't want to worry about spots filling up and having to take the bar in Feb. But now I'm even more worried. Can someone help me out here? Thank you.
Second (and this is not Illinois-specific, and some of this may not even apply to IL), going through C&F can be a hassle. Even if your record is completely unblemished, you'll still need to get each of your employers (and employment's often defined very broadly, to include volunteer work, TA/RA positions, unpaid internships etc. which are typically not thought of as "employment") to fill out an additional employer affidavit. In some states this requirement only applies to "legal" employers, in others it applies to "all" employers. You'll need to get each of your moral character affirmants to fill out an additional letter of support. You'll potentially need to collect more records and forms from state DMVs and from your law school. Some of these forms may need to be wet-signed and mailed in; others may even need to be notarized. Don't underestimate the amount of work this takes.
Third, and this is the big kahuna, once you get admitted in IL, you'll be on the hook for ongoing CLE and registration fees and requirements. The fees will probably be OK, especially if your firm keeps covering them, but the ongoing CLE requirements may be a major pain. NY CLE may not satisfy IL's requirements. So that's a big minus. Some states have an "inactive" status where you can pay reduced fees and avoid CLE requirements if you don't practice in that state, but other states don't. You should check whether IL has "inactive" status. The worst states are those that don't even allow you to resign from the bar - CA falls into this camp. Once you get in, you're forced to keep doing CLE and paying registration fees until you die (!). It's possible to simply not comply and fall out of good standing, but that could make it challenging to get admitted to any other state bars down the road.
Wait. Really? I thought IL wasn't a courtesy seating state. If you can clarify that would be super helpful!Anonymous User wrote: ↑Sun May 10, 2020 1:00 pmI got confirmation from a file reviewer that IL does not require you to seek admission.
QContinuum wrote: ↑Fri May 08, 2020 5:25 pmSo a few things. First, even in a non-"courtesy seating" state, while you ultimately need to apply for admission to that state's bar, you can "port" the UBE score to NY and apply for NY bar admission via transferred UBE score as soon as the score comes out. You don't need to wait to be barred in IL before "porting" the UBE score to NY. So that's a plus.Anonymous User wrote:Not the OP and really confused now. Firm said they will cover all transfer-related fees if I took the UBE in another jurisdiction. Signed up for IL thinking I can just transfer the UBE score as another poster above mentioned. If all costs are going to be covered, is there any downside to taking in IL and transferring to NY? An earlier poster mentioned that the process is time consuming. How bad is it really to get admitted to IL first and then quickly transfer to NY?
All this is just so aggravating. Perhaps I should've known this before I registered for IL, but with finals + other stresses right now I didn't want to worry about spots filling up and having to take the bar in Feb. But now I'm even more worried. Can someone help me out here? Thank you.
Second (and this is not Illinois-specific, and some of this may not even apply to IL), going through C&F can be a hassle. Even if your record is completely unblemished, you'll still need to get each of your employers (and employment's often defined very broadly, to include volunteer work, TA/RA positions, unpaid internships etc. which are typically not thought of as "employment") to fill out an additional employer affidavit. In some states this requirement only applies to "legal" employers, in others it applies to "all" employers. You'll need to get each of your moral character affirmants to fill out an additional letter of support. You'll potentially need to collect more records and forms from state DMVs and from your law school. Some of these forms may need to be wet-signed and mailed in; others may even need to be notarized. Don't underestimate the amount of work this takes.
Third, and this is the big kahuna, once you get admitted in IL, you'll be on the hook for ongoing CLE and registration fees and requirements. The fees will probably be OK, especially if your firm keeps covering them, but the ongoing CLE requirements may be a major pain. NY CLE may not satisfy IL's requirements. So that's a big minus. Some states have an "inactive" status where you can pay reduced fees and avoid CLE requirements if you don't practice in that state, but other states don't. You should check whether IL has "inactive" status. The worst states are those that don't even allow you to resign from the bar - CA falls into this camp. Once you get in, you're forced to keep doing CLE and paying registration fees until you die (!). It's possible to simply not comply and fall out of good standing, but that could make it challenging to get admitted to any other state bars down the road.
It looks like all the courtesy seating states have closed. I'm afraid you'll have to take it next year.JoJePa wrote: ↑Thu Jun 04, 2020 8:03 amI am a foreign bar applicant who needs to resit the bar exam. I sat it in NY In Feb 2020 and have completed all the other requirements (NYLE etc). It looks like NY will never open up the exam in Sep to me given I’m not from a NY or US law school and I’m a retaker. Currently going through the list of courtesy seating states. Anyone out there found a state where I, as a retaker and foreign-educated individual, can sit it in September which is still taking applicants? Thank you.