2020 September California Bar Exam

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Re: 2020 September California Bar Exam

Post by Anonymous User » Thu Jul 16, 2020 10:46 pm

The question becomes what is to stop people from cheating? Nothing. Wouldn't say it's a garbage decision but problematic imo.

Rooks

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Re: 2020 September California Bar Exam

Post by Rooks » Thu Jul 16, 2020 10:47 pm

welp, can we get yet another thread title change

JoeAccidentally

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Re: 2020 September California Bar Exam

Post by JoeAccidentally » Fri Jul 17, 2020 12:03 am

Doesn't it take about 15 weeks from the date of the exam for the State to release results? By my count, mid-January doesn't allow much time to prepare for February 2021 (assuming that administration is timely) in case one fails.

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Re: 2020 September California Bar Exam

Post by shengren » Fri Jul 17, 2020 12:45 am

JoeAccidentally wrote:
Fri Jul 17, 2020 12:03 am
Doesn't it take about 15 weeks from the date of the exam for the State to release results? By my count, mid-January doesn't allow much time to prepare for February 2021 (assuming that administration is timely) in case one fails.
Well they can postpone the Feb. 2021 exam too, can't they?

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Re: 2020 September California Bar Exam

Post by yespasscbx » Fri Jul 17, 2020 3:25 am

The court permanently lowered the passing score from 1440 to 1390 ... good luck, examtakers!!!

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Re: 2020 September California Bar Exam

Post by Anonymous User » Fri Jul 17, 2020 7:17 am

JoeAccidentally wrote:
Fri Jul 17, 2020 12:03 am
Doesn't it take about 15 weeks from the date of the exam for the State to release results? By my count, mid-January doesn't allow much time to prepare for February 2021 (assuming that administration is timely) in case one fails.
And you still have another go round of BBar. If October BBar got moved to November (still no date for it) because Bar got moved to September and they could not grade in time, now with Bar in October, they need to move November BBar to December at least. I bet there is going to be a ripple effect. Will holidays play into any of this?

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Re: 2020 September California Bar Exam

Post by LRRG » Fri Jul 17, 2020 9:37 am

does anyone know do you have to be physically in US to take the online exam? my f1 visa might be expired on October so i was a little worried

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Re: 2020 September California Bar Exam

Post by RVP11 » Fri Jul 17, 2020 11:16 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Thu Jul 16, 2020 10:46 pm
The question becomes what is to stop people from cheating? Nothing. Wouldn't say it's a garbage decision but problematic imo.
Unless someone has all of the answers to the MBE ahead of time written on their hand (which is impossible), I just don't see how this is a real issue.

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Re: 2020 September California Bar Exam

Post by Heyall » Fri Jul 17, 2020 12:08 pm

I've read a few thing on this, but I didn't see if there would be any changes to the exam.

Is it fair to assume that the exam will be kept the same in October?

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Re: 2020 September California Bar Exam

Post by rhs67858 » Fri Jul 17, 2020 12:22 pm

RVP11 wrote:
Fri Jul 17, 2020 11:16 am
Anonymous User wrote:
Thu Jul 16, 2020 10:46 pm
The question becomes what is to stop people from cheating? Nothing. Wouldn't say it's a garbage decision but problematic imo.
Unless someone has all of the answers to the MBE ahead of time written on their hand (which is impossible), I just don't see how this is a real issue.
Respectfully disagree as I believe it is 100% a real issue going online. I can think of multiple ways to cheat on MBEs and Essays. PT is there too you just need to be creative. Yes, these are factoring in time constraints. I am not trying to pick an argument just trying to push back a little. However, I have to say this: cheat and you might not get caught now but in life you will. You will slip up and it could change your life. Cheating becomes hard to walk away from once engaged in--human nature for most. Integrity is doing the right thing when no one is looking. Full stop. That's all we have, and it's hard to get back once lost. Just my thoughts. I know we're adults etc. Okee dokee artichokee.

StroVanLaw

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Re: 2020 September California Bar Exam

Post by StroVanLaw » Fri Jul 17, 2020 12:38 pm

I have a more basic question: will I be able to pee during the exam if it's at home? I heard that for the baby bar and LSAT, recently administered remotely, people had to stay on screen the entire time.

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Re: 2020 September California Bar Exam

Post by jlyyap » Fri Jul 17, 2020 1:52 pm

Damn, I just want to know what the format of the test is gonna be now.

Gambol4Rollz

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Re: 2020 September California Bar Exam

Post by Gambol4Rollz » Fri Jul 17, 2020 2:22 pm

If your write GOV Newsom, maybe we can get him to retroactively apply the new 1390 cut score!

https://www.reddit.com/r/barexam/commen ... apply_the/

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Re: 2020 September California Bar Exam

Post by ReasonablePersonSSC » Fri Jul 17, 2020 4:02 pm

StroVanLaw wrote:
Fri Jul 17, 2020 12:38 pm
I have a more basic question: will I be able to pee during the exam if it's at home? I heard that for the baby bar and LSAT, recently administered remotely, people had to stay on screen the entire time.
The FYLSE had a 15” break after each 60 minute segment for an essay and after each 90 minute segment for 50 multiple choice questions. They will probably do something similar.

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Re: 2020 September California Bar Exam

Post by Anonymous User » Fri Jul 17, 2020 6:44 pm

ReasonablePersonSSC wrote:
Fri Jul 17, 2020 4:02 pm
The FYLSE had a 15” break after each 60 minute segment for an essay and after each 90 minute segment for 50 multiple choice questions. They will probably do something similar.
How does this work or rather how did it work for the FYLSE as per the essay questions for example. Do you see all the questions before you go on break or you see one question at a time for the 60 minutes before your break? And ditto the PT, and the MBE.Thanks

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Re: 2020 September California Bar Exam

Post by ReasonablePersonSSC » Sat Jul 18, 2020 9:25 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Fri Jul 17, 2020 6:44 pm
ReasonablePersonSSC wrote:
Fri Jul 17, 2020 4:02 pm
The FYLSE had a 15” break after each 60 minute segment for an essay and after each 90 minute segment for 50 multiple choice questions. They will probably do something similar.
How does this work or rather how did it work for the FYLSE as per the essay questions for example. Do you see all the questions before you go on break or you see one question at a time for the 60 minutes before your break? And ditto the PT, and the MBE.Thanks
I didn’t sit for it because I passed it and the Bar, but the way I read the instructions the examinee saw one question, wrote the answer, and then uploaded it, I think during the break. The same with the questions, answer 50 questions and upload during the break. There is no PT on the FYLSE but I think it would be one 90 minute segment after which the answer is uploaded. The only time the examinee needed internet connection was during the log in and the upload.

It is all speculation until the CBX instructions are released, but since the Bar was using the FYLSE as a feasibility test, the CBX will probably be run similarly, although scaled up.

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Re: 2020 September California Bar Exam

Post by ReasonablePersonSSC » Sat Jul 18, 2020 9:28 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Fri Jul 17, 2020 6:44 pm
ReasonablePersonSSC wrote:
Fri Jul 17, 2020 4:02 pm
The FYLSE had a 15” break after each 60 minute segment for an essay and after each 90 minute segment for 50 multiple choice questions. They will probably do something similar.
How does this work or rather how did it work for the FYLSE as per the essay questions for example. Do you see all the questions before you go on break or you see one question at a time for the 60 minutes before your break? And ditto the PT, and the MBE.Thanks
I didn’t sit for it because I’ve passed it and the Bar and was curious, but the way I read the instructions the examinee saw one question, wrote the answer, and then uploaded it, I think during the break. The same with the questions, answer 50 questions and upload during the break. There is no PT on the FYLSE but I think it would be one 90 minute segment after which the answer is uploaded. The only time the examinee needed internet connection was during the log in and the upload.

It is all speculation until the CBX instructions are released, but since the Bar was using the FYLSE as a feasibility test, the CBX will probably be run similarly, although scaled up.

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Re: 2020 September California Bar Exam

Post by Anonymous User » Sat Jul 18, 2020 5:29 pm

ReasonablePersonSSC wrote:
Fri Jul 17, 2020 4:02 pm
I didn’t sit for it because I’ve passed it and the Bar and was curious, but the way I read the instructions the examinee saw one question, wrote the answer, and then uploaded it, I think during the break. The same with the questions, answer 50 questions and upload during the break. There is no PT on the FYLSE but I think it would be one 90 minute segment after which the answer is uploaded. The only time the examinee needed internet connection was during the log in and the upload.

It is all speculation until the CBX instructions are released, but since the Bar was using the FYLSE as a feasibility test, the CBX will probably be run similarly, although scaled up.
Thanks and it makes sense and likely that is the way it will be also with the CBX.
Basically, the strategy of answering the questions one knows best first will be not be applicable in this case and you just have to get to work immediately on each question as it shows up.
Thanks again.

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Re: 2020 September California Bar Exam

Post by rhs67858 » Mon Jul 20, 2020 9:02 pm

https://www.calbar.ca.gov/Portals/0/doc ... m-FAQs.pdf


“The California Supreme Court has lowered the passing score for the October Bar Exam from 1440 to 1390. The new 1390 passing score will apply prospectively to future administrations of the California Bar Exam.”

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Re: 2020 September California Bar Exam

Post by a male human » Mon Jul 20, 2020 11:01 pm

rhs67858 wrote:
Mon Jul 20, 2020 9:02 pm
https://www.calbar.ca.gov/Portals/0/doc ... m-FAQs.pdf


“The California Supreme Court has lowered the passing score for the October Bar Exam from 1440 to 1390. The new 1390 passing score will apply prospectively to future administrations of the California Bar Exam.”

Here's what I've gathered from this FAQ:

The 2020 October California Bar Exam will have one day of 5 essays and another day of 100 MBE questions (two sessions of 50 MBE questions) and a 90-minute Performance Test.

Breaks include one hour of lunch break and 15 minutes of break between each essay and each MBE session.

This means the CA Attorneys’ Exam will be over two days.

By the way, you do NOT need to go through a remote exam, although it seems in-person exams are being discouraged. In-person exams are available if you prefer it or can’t find space for a remote exam, “so long as you are determined to have extenuating circumstances justifying an in-person exam,” with COVID-19 guidelines in place. You’ll still get physical scratch paper in that case.

As for the remote testing, here’s a quick rundown of the main points:

Tech requirements
  • You will need a laptop (no desktops) and a webcam
  • You will be required to take a mock exam to familiarize yourself with the software and to set a photo ID
    You cannot use another monitor
Internet connection
  • You need Internet connectivity to log into each session and to access the web for an exam session password
  • Make sure you have a solid connection, because you won’t be able to complete the exam if you can’t verify your identification and get into a session
Exam software features
  • You get virtual/digital scratch paper on screen
  • You can copy and paste (FAQ says “cut and paste,” but I assume copying is also possible). You can paste text in your answer from the digital scratch paper—but not from the questions
  • You can highlight text in the questions
  • You can annotate MBE questions by striking through answer choices or flagging to come back later
You’ll see what the interface looks like in the mock exam, but it may look like this screenshot from the FYLSE baby bar:

Image

Remote testing rules and protocols
  • No books, papers, notes, etc. are allowed—except when using physical scratch paper during the PT
  • You cannot choose the order of essays
  • You get one essay question at a time and cannot go back to a previous essay
  • You get regular breaks (see above) but cannot leave the view of the webcam unless you finish a session early and upload your answers
  • No food or water allowed
Cheating and monitoring
  • Your conduct is monitored by AI and gets human review if flagged as suspicious activity. If you end up getting a notice of violation of exam rules (Chapter 6 notice), you can appeal it
  • I understand there are concerns about bad actors who may find ways to cheat. Don’t concern yourself with them because there will always be people trying to cheat the system. Even in traditional exams from before, one could take a bathroom break to peek at notes. In that sense, remote testing is more secure since we have to stay in view of the camera outside of breaks. It’s like everyone gets a personal proctor. Knowing how to find the issues and use the rules is more critical than being able to write the perfect rule statement
See the FAQ for more details, including ExamSoft system requirements. https://www.calbar.ca.gov/Portals/0/doc ... m-FAQs.pdf

Will this be the procedure in 2021 as well? That will probably depend on the state of the coronavirus. We’re getting only 100 MBE questions because the NCBE was unable to produce more.

And here are some strategies for actually preparing for and taking a test entirely on screen.

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Re: 2020 September California Bar Exam

Post by Anonymous User » Tue Jul 21, 2020 1:17 pm

What is the logic behind "no desktop" computers - only laptop?

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Re: 2020 September California Bar Exam

Post by RVP11 » Tue Jul 21, 2020 1:18 pm

a male human wrote:
Mon Jul 20, 2020 11:01 pm
rhs67858 wrote:
Mon Jul 20, 2020 9:02 pm
https://www.calbar.ca.gov/Portals/0/doc ... m-FAQs.pdf


“The California Supreme Court has lowered the passing score for the October Bar Exam from 1440 to 1390. The new 1390 passing score will apply prospectively to future administrations of the California Bar Exam.”

Here's what I've gathered from this FAQ:

The 2020 October California Bar Exam will have one day of 5 essays and another day of 100 MBE questions (two sessions of 50 MBE questions) and a 90-minute Performance Test.

Breaks include one hour of lunch break and 15 minutes of break between each essay and each MBE session.

This means the CA Attorneys’ Exam will be over two days.

By the way, you do NOT need to go through a remote exam, although it seems in-person exams are being discouraged. In-person exams are available if you prefer it or can’t find space for a remote exam, “so long as you are determined to have extenuating circumstances justifying an in-person exam,” with COVID-19 guidelines in place. You’ll still get physical scratch paper in that case.

As for the remote testing, here’s a quick rundown of the main points:

Tech requirements
  • You will need a laptop (no desktops) and a webcam
  • You will be required to take a mock exam to familiarize yourself with the software and to set a photo ID
    You cannot use another monitor
Internet connection
  • You need Internet connectivity to log into each session and to access the web for an exam session password
  • Make sure you have a solid connection, because you won’t be able to complete the exam if you can’t verify your identification and get into a session
Exam software features
  • You get virtual/digital scratch paper on screen
  • You can copy and paste (FAQ says “cut and paste,” but I assume copying is also possible). You can paste text in your answer from the digital scratch paper—but not from the questions
  • You can highlight text in the questions
  • You can annotate MBE questions by striking through answer choices or flagging to come back later
You’ll see what the interface looks like in the mock exam, but it may look like this screenshot from the FYLSE baby bar:

Image

Remote testing rules and protocols
  • No books, papers, notes, etc. are allowed—except when using physical scratch paper during the PT
  • You cannot choose the order of essays
  • You get one essay question at a time and cannot go back to a previous essay
  • You get regular breaks (see above) but cannot leave the view of the webcam unless you finish a session early and upload your answers
  • No food or water allowed
Cheating and monitoring
  • Your conduct is monitored by AI and gets human review if flagged as suspicious activity. If you end up getting a notice of violation of exam rules (Chapter 6 notice), you can appeal it
  • I understand there are concerns about bad actors who may find ways to cheat. Don’t concern yourself with them because there will always be people trying to cheat the system. Even in traditional exams from before, one could take a bathroom break to peek at notes. In that sense, remote testing is more secure since we have to stay in view of the camera outside of breaks. It’s like everyone gets a personal proctor. Knowing how to find the issues and use the rules is more critical than being able to write the perfect rule statement
See the FAQ for more details, including ExamSoft system requirements. https://www.calbar.ca.gov/Portals/0/doc ... m-FAQs.pdf

Will this be the procedure in 2021 as well? That will probably depend on the state of the coronavirus. We’re getting only 100 MBE questions because the NCBE was unable to produce more.

And here are some strategies for actually preparing for and taking a test entirely on screen.
Having the MBE as only 25% of the exam seems likely to reduce the passage rate, perhaps even more than will be offset by the reduction in required score from 1440 to 1390.

I really hope that question is not a sample from the FYLSE. I must have missed a few subjects in law school...

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Re: 2020 September California Bar Exam

Post by a male human » Tue Jul 21, 2020 1:28 pm

RVP11 wrote:
Tue Jul 21, 2020 1:18 pm
a male human wrote:
Mon Jul 20, 2020 11:01 pm
rhs67858 wrote:
Mon Jul 20, 2020 9:02 pm
https://www.calbar.ca.gov/Portals/0/doc ... m-FAQs.pdf


“The California Supreme Court has lowered the passing score for the October Bar Exam from 1440 to 1390. The new 1390 passing score will apply prospectively to future administrations of the California Bar Exam.”

Here's what I've gathered from this FAQ:

The 2020 October California Bar Exam will have one day of 5 essays and another day of 100 MBE questions (two sessions of 50 MBE questions) and a 90-minute Performance Test.

Breaks include one hour of lunch break and 15 minutes of break between each essay and each MBE session.

This means the CA Attorneys’ Exam will be over two days.

By the way, you do NOT need to go through a remote exam, although it seems in-person exams are being discouraged. In-person exams are available if you prefer it or can’t find space for a remote exam, “so long as you are determined to have extenuating circumstances justifying an in-person exam,” with COVID-19 guidelines in place. You’ll still get physical scratch paper in that case.

As for the remote testing, here’s a quick rundown of the main points:

Tech requirements
  • You will need a laptop (no desktops) and a webcam
  • You will be required to take a mock exam to familiarize yourself with the software and to set a photo ID
    You cannot use another monitor
Internet connection
  • You need Internet connectivity to log into each session and to access the web for an exam session password
  • Make sure you have a solid connection, because you won’t be able to complete the exam if you can’t verify your identification and get into a session
Exam software features
  • You get virtual/digital scratch paper on screen
  • You can copy and paste (FAQ says “cut and paste,” but I assume copying is also possible). You can paste text in your answer from the digital scratch paper—but not from the questions
  • You can highlight text in the questions
  • You can annotate MBE questions by striking through answer choices or flagging to come back later
You’ll see what the interface looks like in the mock exam, but it may look like this screenshot from the FYLSE baby bar:

Image

Remote testing rules and protocols
  • No books, papers, notes, etc. are allowed—except when using physical scratch paper during the PT
  • You cannot choose the order of essays
  • You get one essay question at a time and cannot go back to a previous essay
  • You get regular breaks (see above) but cannot leave the view of the webcam unless you finish a session early and upload your answers
  • No food or water allowed
Cheating and monitoring
  • Your conduct is monitored by AI and gets human review if flagged as suspicious activity. If you end up getting a notice of violation of exam rules (Chapter 6 notice), you can appeal it
  • I understand there are concerns about bad actors who may find ways to cheat. Don’t concern yourself with them because there will always be people trying to cheat the system. Even in traditional exams from before, one could take a bathroom break to peek at notes. In that sense, remote testing is more secure since we have to stay in view of the camera outside of breaks. It’s like everyone gets a personal proctor. Knowing how to find the issues and use the rules is more critical than being able to write the perfect rule statement
See the FAQ for more details, including ExamSoft system requirements. https://www.calbar.ca.gov/Portals/0/doc ... m-FAQs.pdf

Will this be the procedure in 2021 as well? That will probably depend on the state of the coronavirus. We’re getting only 100 MBE questions because the NCBE was unable to produce more.

And here are some strategies for actually preparing for and taking a test entirely on screen.
Having the MBE as only 25% of the exam seems likely to reduce the passage rate, perhaps even more than will be offset by the reduction in required score from 1440 to 1390.

I really hope that question is not a sample from the FYLSE. I must have missed a few subjects in law school...
Yes, the MBE will be weighted 50% as usual, despite having fewer questions. It will be even more critical in October...

And probably not a screenshot from the baby bar lol. More screenshots here http://prod-client-metadata.examsoft.co ... ibrary.pdf

Seriously? What are you waiting for?

Now there's a charge.
Just kidding ... it's still FREE!


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