2020 September California Bar Exam

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candlemantel

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Re: 2020 September California Bar Exam

Post by candlemantel » Thu Jul 02, 2020 5:20 pm

Anyone have a template for the "comments" email to the State Bar where we can add in our own feedback?

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rcharter1978

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Re: 2020 September California Bar Exam

Post by rcharter1978 » Thu Jul 02, 2020 5:21 pm

A one day essay only exam sounds like my worst nightmare.

There is a justice Josh Groban? Interesting.

cls1650

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Re: 2020 September California Bar Exam

Post by cls1650 » Thu Jul 02, 2020 5:30 pm

candlemantel wrote:
Thu Jul 02, 2020 5:20 pm
Anyone have a template for the "comments" email to the State Bar where we can add in our own feedback?
http://www.unitedfordiplomaprivilege.or ... rces-page/

retaker_SF

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Re: 2020 September California Bar Exam

Post by retaker_SF » Thu Jul 02, 2020 6:13 pm

rcharter1978 wrote:
Thu Jul 02, 2020 5:21 pm
A one day essay only exam sounds like my worst nightmare.
Agreed. it actually would be less statistically reliable than a set of 100 or 200 MBE questions or transferred MBE scores. Psychometrician Bolus warned State Bar about this.

And what would be the grading / cut off score?

Heyall

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Re: 2020 September California Bar Exam

Post by Heyall » Thu Jul 02, 2020 8:16 pm

I saw this on twitter from BarEssayPrep, assuming that's their real twitter.

https://twitter.com/baressayprep/status ... 5395219457

"California bar exam will not have MBE’S. You can retweet this in a few days."

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cls1650

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Re: 2020 September California Bar Exam

Post by cls1650 » Thu Jul 02, 2020 8:23 pm

Heyall wrote:
Thu Jul 02, 2020 8:16 pm
I saw this on twitter from BarEssayPrep, assuming that's their real twitter.

https://twitter.com/baressayprep/status ... 5395219457

"California bar exam will not have MBE’S. You can retweet this in a few days."
That would be interesting. But I wonder why then they are planning for an Oct exam when the only apparent reason was to line up with NCBE's release of the 100 MBEs.

Heyall

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Re: 2020 September California Bar Exam

Post by Heyall » Tue Jul 07, 2020 6:09 pm

Updates from today's conference call:

https://news.bloomberglaw.com/us-law-we ... p-bar-exam

https://www.stanforddaily.com/2020/07/0 ... amination/

It seems like they're weighing all sorts of ideas, including letting it be Performance Test only. It seems like it's more than likely that the MBE's will be scrapped for this next test because they can't come up with 200 questions that fast.

It also seems like, from these articles, they may be rethinking the future of the Bar exam and getting rid of stuff that isn't relevant, like the MBE's.

cburto10

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Re: 2020 September California Bar Exam

Post by cburto10 » Wed Jul 08, 2020 11:34 am

jennimarcy wrote:
Wed Jul 01, 2020 11:35 am
Rooks wrote:
Wed Jul 01, 2020 11:20 am
Sounds like Diploma Privilege may be gaining some traction again. I encourage everyone here to submit concerns and join the Zoom call. This is likely our last and best attempt, especially with Chemerinsky in board.
I do not doubt that they will consider it. The economy is trashed, but I am not for the DP, it sucks for foreign applicants and those who went to non-accredited schools. The whole thing, pandemic or not, is so blatantly unfair but then life does through us all curveballs. I passed the F20 test, 7th time taker. I am now practicing and also providing free zoom classes to bar applicants each week to help them in this time of stress. I am hoping the NCBE test online will be the way they go. Look at the DC bar - they are only doing 3 essays, PT and 100 MBE's in October. I am sending a letter requesting they work with the NCBE and do the same and at the same time I am asking them to only do a first read and lower the passing score to 1390. This will mean the graders will have to slow down at least a minute or two on each question they read, would that be nice, it also would mean they are likely to grade harder but with the online remote proctoring, highly doubt cheaters will get away with cheating - especially with AI monitoring their movements and eyes. If they look up for any length of time it will be noted and considered highly suspect. I research this issue at the end of April and sent letters, emails and participated in the whole process with the bar on choosing the remote testing. It is a good way to ensure minimal standards. Expect a professional responsibility essay for sure and the PT, it will be simple - find the ffffing rule and prove the elements in each paragraph with the library and the facts (the task memo will tell you whether it is persuasive or objective). If I passed the F20 test you can all pass this test in October, if they go with it, which is what the SC recommended. DP is not an option in my opinion and I wonder if people will even be hired if DP is the solution - if it is, you lose, CA Bar wins, because they don't spend any money on test admin.
You took away precious time from bar applicants to have their voices heard to the CA S.Ct. and State Bar. You were found out in like ~5min. You had zero reason/standing to step on the toes of those truly hurting during this time to push your narrative on the zoom call. And I can't fathom how you could continue to push this narrative after hearing the 1-min stories from ~300 individuals. Truly baffled. You have the right to your opinion, but call a spade a spade here. The CBX does not truly capture attorney "competence". And your concerns (w/r/t foreign LLMs + non-accredited applicants) have already been addressed dozens of times from waves of "competent" advocates/current bar applicants.

jlyyap

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Re: 2020 September California Bar Exam

Post by jlyyap » Wed Jul 08, 2020 2:58 pm

cburto10 wrote:
Wed Jul 08, 2020 11:34 am
jennimarcy wrote:
Wed Jul 01, 2020 11:35 am
Rooks wrote:
Wed Jul 01, 2020 11:20 am
Sounds like Diploma Privilege may be gaining some traction again. I encourage everyone here to submit concerns and join the Zoom call. This is likely our last and best attempt, especially with Chemerinsky in board.
I do not doubt that they will consider it. The economy is trashed, but I am not for the DP, it sucks for foreign applicants and those who went to non-accredited schools. The whole thing, pandemic or not, is so blatantly unfair but then life does through us all curveballs. I passed the F20 test, 7th time taker. I am now practicing and also providing free zoom classes to bar applicants each week to help them in this time of stress. I am hoping the NCBE test online will be the way they go. Look at the DC bar - they are only doing 3 essays, PT and 100 MBE's in October. I am sending a letter requesting they work with the NCBE and do the same and at the same time I am asking them to only do a first read and lower the passing score to 1390. This will mean the graders will have to slow down at least a minute or two on each question they read, would that be nice, it also would mean they are likely to grade harder but with the online remote proctoring, highly doubt cheaters will get away with cheating - especially with AI monitoring their movements and eyes. If they look up for any length of time it will be noted and considered highly suspect. I research this issue at the end of April and sent letters, emails and participated in the whole process with the bar on choosing the remote testing. It is a good way to ensure minimal standards. Expect a professional responsibility essay for sure and the PT, it will be simple - find the ffffing rule and prove the elements in each paragraph with the library and the facts (the task memo will tell you whether it is persuasive or objective). If I passed the F20 test you can all pass this test in October, if they go with it, which is what the SC recommended. DP is not an option in my opinion and I wonder if people will even be hired if DP is the solution - if it is, you lose, CA Bar wins, because they don't spend any money on test admin.
You took away precious time from bar applicants to have their voices heard to the CA S.Ct. and State Bar. You were found out in like ~5min. You had zero reason/standing to step on the toes of those truly hurting during this time to push your narrative on the zoom call. And I can't fathom how you could continue to push this narrative after hearing the 1-min stories from ~300 individuals. Truly baffled. You have the right to your opinion, but call a spade a spade here. The CBX does not truly capture attorney "competence". And your concerns (w/r/t foreign LLMs + non-accredited applicants) have already been addressed dozens of times from waves of "competent" advocates/current bar applicants.
To add on, the most cowardly thing you did during your call was not clearly identifying that you were not a bar applicant. That forum was not for you to express your opinion.

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retaker_SF

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Re: 2020 September California Bar Exam

Post by retaker_SF » Wed Jul 08, 2020 7:42 pm

jlyyap wrote:
Wed Jul 08, 2020 2:58 pm
cburto10 wrote:
Wed Jul 08, 2020 11:34 am
jennimarcy wrote:
Wed Jul 01, 2020 11:35 am
Rooks wrote:
Wed Jul 01, 2020 11:20 am
Sounds like Diploma Privilege may be gaining some traction again. I encourage everyone here to submit concerns and join the Zoom call. This is likely our last and best attempt, especially with Chemerinsky in board.
I do not doubt that they will consider it. The economy is trashed, but I am not for the DP, it sucks for foreign applicants and those who went to non-accredited schools. The whole thing, pandemic or not, is so blatantly unfair but then life does through us all curveballs. I passed the F20 test, 7th time taker. I am now practicing and also providing free zoom classes to bar applicants each week to help them in this time of stress. I am hoping the NCBE test online will be the way they go. Look at the DC bar - they are only doing 3 essays, PT and 100 MBE's in October. I am sending a letter requesting they work with the NCBE and do the same and at the same time I am asking them to only do a first read and lower the passing score to 1390. This will mean the graders will have to slow down at least a minute or two on each question they read, would that be nice, it also would mean they are likely to grade harder but with the online remote proctoring, highly doubt cheaters will get away with cheating - especially with AI monitoring their movements and eyes. If they look up for any length of time it will be noted and considered highly suspect. I research this issue at the end of April and sent letters, emails and participated in the whole process with the bar on choosing the remote testing. It is a good way to ensure minimal standards. Expect a professional responsibility essay for sure and the PT, it will be simple - find the ffffing rule and prove the elements in each paragraph with the library and the facts (the task memo will tell you whether it is persuasive or objective). If I passed the F20 test you can all pass this test in October, if they go with it, which is what the SC recommended. DP is not an option in my opinion and I wonder if people will even be hired if DP is the solution - if it is, you lose, CA Bar wins, because they don't spend any money on test admin.
You took away precious time from bar applicants to have their voices heard to the CA S.Ct. and State Bar. You were found out in like ~5min. You had zero reason/standing to step on the toes of those truly hurting during this time to push your narrative on the zoom call. And I can't fathom how you could continue to push this narrative after hearing the 1-min stories from ~300 individuals. Truly baffled. You have the right to your opinion, but call a spade a spade here. The CBX does not truly capture attorney "competence". And your concerns (w/r/t foreign LLMs + non-accredited applicants) have already been addressed dozens of times from waves of "competent" advocates/current bar applicants.
To add on, the most cowardly thing you did during your call was not clearly identifying that you were not a bar applicant. That forum was not for you to express your opinion.
You should apologize and send a letter to the State Bar acknowledging that you made a mistake. You took time away from examinees like us who were trying to get our voices about the pandemic and delays heard. Instead, you went on a self interested tirade at a meeting you weren't even supposed to attend.

Worse, you explicitly stated the previous day that you would not try to speak: "Everyone, Just a suggestion, if you are planning to speak: Be early in the zoom meeting, I'd been the room at 8:30 with your hand raised or you may never get to speak. They are only allowing you to comment up to 1 minute each, I know it is three hours but just think of the 10,000 applicants may call in or come in on zoom. I'm going to record the entire session and will post it here. I am NOT speaking."

Emphasis on "I am NOT speaking"

Those were your own words

Heyall

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Re: 2020 September California Bar Exam

Post by Heyall » Thu Jul 09, 2020 5:21 pm

If anyone missed the meeting, here's 30 minutes of it on youtube.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n9tIMWZOtM8

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Re: 2020 September California Bar Exam

Post by Anonymous User » Fri Jul 10, 2020 11:15 am

Heyall wrote:
Thu Jul 09, 2020 5:21 pm
If anyone missed the meeting, here's 30 minutes of it on youtube.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n9tIMWZOtM8
Interesting that at the meeting, they still were not sure that there was NOT going to be an in-person exam. I do not see how with all of the reclosing going on in California that they could think the test would be in person, just 60-days before the current test date.

Heyall

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Re: 2020 September California Bar Exam

Post by Heyall » Fri Jul 10, 2020 12:23 pm

https://twitter.com/BarExamTracker/stat ... 6885107713

Apparently they'll decide on July 15th. The Bar could be cancelled in favor of diploma privileges, or it could proceed with electronic exams.

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VGJoseph

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Re: 2020 September California Bar Exam

Post by VGJoseph » Wed Jul 15, 2020 5:14 am

Does anyone know why the NCBE won't have an online version until Oct. 5 and 6? If there had been no Covid 19, they would have had 200 questions ready for the July administration, wouldn't they? And is it so difficult or time consuming to prepare a couple of hundred multiple choice questions?

deanrobbins1

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Re: 2020 September California Bar Exam

Post by deanrobbins1 » Wed Jul 15, 2020 7:12 am

VGJoseph wrote:
Wed Jul 15, 2020 5:14 am
Does anyone know why the NCBE won't have an online version until Oct. 5 and 6? If there had been no Covid 19, they would have had 200 questions ready for the July administration, wouldn't they? And is it so difficult or time consuming to prepare a couple of hundred multiple choice questions?
the 200 questions they 'would have had ready' for the July exam are presumably being used ... for the July exam, which is still happening in many states. and yes, coming up with hundreds of multiple choice questions is pretty time consuming if you're aiming for them to be psychometrically and statistically valid compared to prior tests.

BigLawer

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Re: 2020 September California Bar Exam

Post by BigLawer » Wed Jul 15, 2020 12:18 pm

Does anyone think that diploma privilege has any chance? I would think this would be an insane change in a state that has such a low passage rate - typically we think only about 50% of the applicants are qualified to be entered into the state bar, but this year it is automatically 100%? Seems unrealistic.

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Re: 2020 September California Bar Exam

Post by Anonymous User » Wed Jul 15, 2020 12:27 pm

deanrobbins1 wrote:
Wed Jul 15, 2020 7:12 am
VGJoseph wrote:
Wed Jul 15, 2020 5:14 am
Does anyone know why the NCBE won't have an online version until Oct. 5 and 6? If there had been no Covid 19, they would have had 200 questions ready for the July administration, wouldn't they? And is it so difficult or time consuming to prepare a couple of hundred multiple choice questions?
the 200 questions they 'would have had ready' for the July exam are presumably being used ... for the July exam, which is still happening in many states. and yes, coming up with hundreds of multiple choice questions is pretty time consuming if you're aiming for them to be psychometrically and statistically valid compared to prior tests.
NCBE has also prepared 200 questions for in person Sept exams, but they don't want to release those questions to the states having an online bar exam because they are worried the online administration will not be secure and could leak the questions, which would jeopardize the in person exams. So, they are waiting until both Sept dates have passed to release 100 NCBE questions to states having an online bar, thus forcing them to move their date to Oct.

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Re: 2020 September California Bar Exam

Post by Anonymous User » Wed Jul 15, 2020 12:28 pm

deanrobbins1 wrote:
Wed Jul 15, 2020 7:12 am
VGJoseph wrote:
Wed Jul 15, 2020 5:14 am
Does anyone know why the NCBE won't have an online version until Oct. 5 and 6? If there had been no Covid 19, they would have had 200 questions ready for the July administration, wouldn't they? And is it so difficult or time consuming to prepare a couple of hundred multiple choice questions?
the 200 questions they 'would have had ready' for the July exam are presumably being used ... for the July exam, which is still happening in many states. and yes, coming up with hundreds of multiple choice questions is pretty time consuming if you're aiming for them to be psychometrically and statistically valid compared to prior tests.
NCBE has also prepared 200 questions for in person Sept exams, but they don't want to release those questions to the states having an online bar exam because they are worried the online administration will not be secure and could leak the questions, which would jeopardize the in person exams. So, they are waiting until both Sept dates have passed to release 100 NCBE questions to states having an online bar, thus forcing them to move their date to Oct.

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RVP11

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Re: 2020 September California Bar Exam

Post by RVP11 » Wed Jul 15, 2020 12:35 pm

Does anyone know when the decision will be coming today?

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Re: 2020 September California Bar Exam

Post by Anonymous User » Wed Jul 15, 2020 1:00 pm

RVP11 wrote:
Wed Jul 15, 2020 12:35 pm
Does anyone know when the decision will be coming today?
Is it definitely coming today?

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Re: 2020 September California Bar Exam

Post by Rooks » Wed Jul 15, 2020 1:21 pm

GULC Dean said decision will be made today, but that may not mean it will be delivered today. I predict they'll release decision after July 16th registration deadline.

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RVP11

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Re: 2020 September California Bar Exam

Post by RVP11 » Wed Jul 15, 2020 1:56 pm

Rooks wrote:
Wed Jul 15, 2020 1:21 pm
GULC Dean said decision will be made today, but that may not mean it will be delivered today. I predict they'll release decision after July 16th registration deadline.
That would make sense, especially if they are going to grant diploma privilege of any variety.

BigLawer

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Re: 2020 September California Bar Exam

Post by BigLawer » Thu Jul 16, 2020 11:57 am

I spoke with someone at a CA attorney exam test prep company. They said they expect the decision to drop Friday. They don't have any inside info, but expect the exam to push till October and while they could see dropping the PT (hard to administer electronically) they said no way diploma privilege comes in. I agree with them, how do you grant admission to people who have failed this thing multiple times? Apparently the CA state bar website crashed yesterday with so many applications because people are hoping to get in without taking the exam. There is no way, the pass rate is way too low to just let everyone in.

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Re: 2020 September California Bar Exam

Post by Heyall » Thu Jul 16, 2020 1:15 pm

This source PREDICTS the exam will be delayed until October 5th.

https://twitter.com/BarExamTracker/stat ... 6069821446

"CALIFORNIA BAR EXAM PREDICTION: Remote examination on Oct. 5. Not saying there won't be diploma privilege of some kind. But I have gotten enough tips, from enough different sources, over the past few days that I'm calling it. I'm remote this afternoon so posting now. #CAbarexam"

Here's an image on the exam portal saying the exam is in October

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EdD-__qX0AY ... name=large

(it's from that same twitter thread, from a different person)

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Re: 2020 September California Bar Exam

Post by Anonymous User » Thu Jul 16, 2020 9:51 pm

Exam officially pushed to Oct. Passing score permanently lowered to 1390.
Here is the letter from the SC https://newsroom.courts.ca.gov/internal ... _FINAL.pdf

Seriously? What are you waiting for?

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