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Taking Florida & NY Bar in same cycle?

Posted: Wed Apr 22, 2020 4:15 pm
by Anonymous User
Hi,

Would it be possible to take the July exam for both Florida and NY this year? Hypo: Florida keeps its July 2020 date (take that) and then take the NY bar exam in September?

Both state bar offices are closed, so cannot get any official insight on this.

Appreciate any help.

Re: Taking Florida & NY Bar in same cycle?

Posted: Fri Apr 24, 2020 11:59 am
by JoeSeperac
Anonymous User wrote:Hi,

Would it be possible to take the July exam for both Florida and NY this year? Hypo: Florida keeps its July 2020 date (take that) and then take the NY bar exam in September?

Both state bar offices are closed, so cannot get any official insight on this.

Appreciate any help.
I can’t help but think the bar examiners will try to prevent this, especially in the case of examinees who could arguably take the exam twice in September. If you get an answer, please let me know.

Re: Taking Florida & NY Bar in same cycle?

Posted: Fri Apr 24, 2020 12:30 pm
by QContinuum
JoeSeperac wrote:I can’t help but think the bar examiners will try to prevent this, especially in the case of examinees who could arguably take the exam twice in September. If you get an answer, please let me know.
Why would the bar examiners want to prevent this? IIRC, in the pre-UBE days, didn't NY and NJ/NY and CT actually schedule things so applicants could sit both days of the NY bar, then drive over to NJ/CT to take the final (state-specific) day of the NJ/CT bar (and porting the NY MBE score over to NJ/CT)? That scheduling seemed to be the opposite of trying to prevent folks from taking 2 bar exams back-to-back.

Re: Taking Florida & NY Bar in same cycle?

Posted: Tue Apr 28, 2020 9:02 pm
by JoeSeperac
QContinuum wrote:
JoeSeperac wrote:I can’t help but think the bar examiners will try to prevent this, especially in the case of examinees who could arguably take the exam twice in September. If you get an answer, please let me know.
Why would the bar examiners want to prevent this? IIRC, in the pre-UBE days, didn't NY and NJ/NY and CT actually schedule things so applicants could sit both days of the NY bar, then drive over to NJ/CT to take the final (state-specific) day of the NJ/CT bar (and porting the NY MBE score over to NJ/CT)? That scheduling seemed to be the opposite of trying to prevent folks from taking 2 bar exams back-to-back.
It seems to me the bar examiners are trying to discourage UBE forum shopping. For example, the average pass rate in Connecticut over the past 25 years was 69%. Meanwhile, the CT pass rate for F20 was 34% (it's lowest ever). The pass rate in CT started to decline after it switched to the UBE with its previously higher pass rate gravitating to a more consistent pass rate with other nearby UBE states. In addition, one examinee told me the C&F committee in Connecticut considers, as cheating and other dishonest conduct, that a candidate "... sat for the bar examination without having a bona fide intention to seek admission to practice law in the State of Connecticut..."

EDIT: I don't think it would be a problem to take FL in July and NY in September, but you should ask the jurisdiction about it to make sure there are no C&F issues.

Re: Taking Florida & NY Bar in same cycle?

Posted: Tue Apr 28, 2020 9:36 pm
by QContinuum
JoeSeperac wrote:It seems to me the bar examiners are trying to discourage UBE forum shopping. For example, the average pass rate in Connecticut over the past 25 years was 69%. Meanwhile, the CT pass rate for F20 was 34% (it's lowest ever). The pass rate in CT started to decline after it switched to the UBE with its previously higher pass rate gravitating to a more consistent pass rate with other nearby UBE states. In addition, one examinee told me the C&F committee in Connecticut considers, as cheating and other dishonest conduct, that a candidate "... sat for the bar examination without having a bona fide intention to seek admission to practice law in the State of Connecticut..."
But if CT's pass rate's been dropping, post-UBE, wouldn't forum shoppers want to take the UBE anywhere other than CT (if they suspect/hope other UBE states grade more leniently)? Why would someone be motivated to sit the UBE in a low pass rate state like CT "without having a bona fide intention to seek admission [in CT]"? Traveling to Hartford isn't exactly convenient, either; there aren't that many flights, it's not on the D.C.-Boston Amtrak corridor, and the closest "major" hub airports are NYC and Boston, neither of which are all that close.

In my view the biggest deterrent to forum shopping is the UBE transfer fee, which can be extremely steep in some states. Even for candidates who'll have their bar fees reimbursed, firms won't reimburse UBE transfer fees. So the only real "forum shopping" is by folks who intend to seek admission in two UBE states and need to pick one of the two to test in. Anecdotally, folks intending to seek admission in both NJ and NY seem to prefer to test in NJ because it releases results earlier, but I have no hard data to confirm this.

Re: Taking Florida & NY Bar in same cycle?

Posted: Fri May 01, 2020 10:44 am
by JoeSeperac
QContinuum wrote:
JoeSeperac wrote:It seems to me the bar examiners are trying to discourage UBE forum shopping. For example, the average pass rate in Connecticut over the past 25 years was 69%. Meanwhile, the CT pass rate for F20 was 34% (it's lowest ever). The pass rate in CT started to decline after it switched to the UBE with its previously higher pass rate gravitating to a more consistent pass rate with other nearby UBE states. In addition, one examinee told me the C&F committee in Connecticut considers, as cheating and other dishonest conduct, that a candidate "... sat for the bar examination without having a bona fide intention to seek admission to practice law in the State of Connecticut..."
But if CT's pass rate's been dropping, post-UBE, wouldn't forum shoppers want to take the UBE anywhere other than CT (if they suspect/hope other UBE states grade more leniently)? Why would someone be motivated to sit the UBE in a low pass rate state like CT "without having a bona fide intention to seek admission [in CT]"? Traveling to Hartford isn't exactly convenient, either; there aren't that many flights, it's not on the D.C.-Boston Amtrak corridor, and the closest "major" hub airports are NYC and Boston, neither of which are all that close.

In my view the biggest deterrent to forum shopping is the UBE transfer fee, which can be extremely steep in some states. Even for candidates who'll have their bar fees reimbursed, firms won't reimburse UBE transfer fees. So the only real "forum shopping" is by folks who intend to seek admission in two UBE states and need to pick one of the two to test in. Anecdotally, folks intending to seek admission in both NJ and NY seem to prefer to test in NJ because it releases results earlier, but I have no hard data to confirm this.
I believe what is happening is that states with typically high pass rates are trying to remove the perception that they grade more leniently. For example, take a look at the pass rates of three nearby UBE 266 states.

In CT, the overall pass rate from 1995-2016 (pre-UBE) was 75%. CT’s overall pass rate was 64% in 2017; 49% in 2018; and 53% in 2019.

In NJ, the overall pass rate from 1995-2016 (pre-UBE) was 69%. NJ’s overall pass rate was 58% in 2017; 54% in 2018; and 59% in 2019.

In NY, the overall pass rate from 1995-2015 (pre-UBE) was 64%. NY’s overall pass rate was 57% in 2016; 61% in 2017; 56% in 2018; and 59% in 2019.

I believe state pass rates for nearby states with similar passing scores are gravitating to a consistent overall rate to prevent forum shopping. If this wasn’t done, failing New Yorkers would be flooding CT and NJ and then transferring back into NY.

Re: Taking Florida & NY Bar in same cycle?

Posted: Wed May 06, 2020 8:32 pm
by Anonymous User
Please let me know if you get clarification on this and how maybe the best way to go about studying for both written portions would be.