THEMIS JULY 2018 - DISCUSSION Forum

[thisiswater]

I just started today for the Illinois bar. Didn’t get to all the assignments since I was exhausted from graduating and moving from out of state.

I like it so far (the intro videos were all I got). Hoping when I hit contracts tomorrow I’ll still feel the same way!

Hi, i'm a repeat taker in IL using my old books and lecture handouts. Do you think you can email me a copy of study schedule they gave you? Not the one available online on the website but the detailed Recommended Study Schedule of the course? I feel like that'll help me stay on track more than making up my own schedule.

I'm sure you've already looked into this but Themis (like many review courses) gives free access if you didn't pass the first time. Have you looked into this?

Good luck!

Thanks, but this isn't my first or second rodeo (lol) so the repeat course isn't an option for me. Anyone kind enough to share the more detailed schedule? Being able to follow along and check things off would help my anxiety.

i'm in the wrong state or i would be happy to. hopefully another IL taker helps out

[jetsetter2000]

Wow a member since 2015 and that was your first post. Congrats!

As for the outlines, yep I didn't read any of them and I did indeed mark them as completed (otherwise the system assumes you haven't done em and it'll keep assigning them to you!)

Personally, as I said above, I think you can get away without reading the outlines if you do the lectures (and you can probably get away without doing the lectures if you read the outlines!). But I don't think you need to do both. I think you can use the outlines if you need them, eg to supplement your understanding or your notes, and because they are slightly more in-depth than the lectures.

Do you make your own notes?

You may consider contacting your course coordinator person if you're concerned about your study approach?

Good luck!

I only got started Monday and I'm a little behind since still decompressing from finals, but yes, I think I'm going to write my mini outline for each subject cause that the only I can imagine digesting it all. In which case I won't feel so bad skimming those!

[ubebarstudying]

To the above, totally understandable about finals. For the people that are nervous or freaking out, just take a deep breath. It might look overwhelming, but you can get it done, and certainly can hit the 75% mark - no question.

A tip: dont compare your progress or where you are or how you are doing to anyone - not friends, not family, not people here. The main goal is to pass the exam, to learn how they want you to write MPTs, memorize black letter law and do practice MBE questions and essays so you are prepared on exam day.

Some people will start late, some started early, and I am sure there are reasons behind both. But people move at different paces, have different lifestyles, some are working, some people have children, others may have ADD. It is all irrelevant - focus on yourself and studying habits and feel the program out. If you feel it isn't working for you or are stressing about progress after next week or by June, then maybe contact a themis person or look for alternatives on here. But for first time takers or repeat takers using themis for the first time, I think right now the best thing to do is see how the first couple weeks go, give directed study a shot, etc. Believe me, I know it's intimidating but give it a shot and try not to stress yourselves out, it's far too early for that.

[eternityblues]

Checking in! Started on Tuesday for the FL Bar.

Feeling a little overwhelmed since Themis assigned two essay outlines today AND a full written essay. I outlined one of them but can't see myself doing two more contracts essays today lol.

[ubebarstudying]

Checking in! Started on Tuesday for the FL Bar.

Feeling a little overwhelmed since Themis assigned two essay outlines today AND a full written essay. I outlined one of them but can't see myself doing two more contracts essays today lol.

I know programs started early this year, but it seems far too early for a graded essay. So it is probably a practice essay in which case I would say give it a go. Remember, the program just started and they talk about starting out open book and untimed (for the earlier practice essays, as I always interpreted it) so it is probably worth a go. It isn't fun, obviously, but if you do less now or cut assignments out now, you may find yourself far more overwhelmed come July, and no one wants to be in a full panic mode with a few weeks to go

[Neilt001]

Checking in! Started on Tuesday for the FL Bar.

Feeling a little overwhelmed since Themis assigned two essay outlines today AND a full written essay. I outlined one of them but can't see myself doing two more contracts essays today lol.

So this is what I did regarding some of the essays. Because I agree, sometimes you just can't be fucked writing a whole essay; sometimes you don't have time; sometimes you have no idea what the answer is; sometimes you know the answer and don't want to waste time writing it all down. In those cases, I just typed a random letter into the box so the program let you mark the essay as Complete. I then printed off the essay answer, highlighted important parts, and put it in my notes for later. By the end of the course, I had a bunch of model answers for each topic in my notes, and I just memorized them (I know it seems like a lot but you'll eventually memorize it all).

So yeah, generally you want to do the essays because it's great practice. But sometimes you can't be bothered, and in those cases it's better to 'cheat' rather than let them slowly pile up, because that's when you'll really get stressed.

Thoughts anyone??

[Tala29]

That seems like a good plan. I did the same with the essay if I knew the answer and did not want to waste time or if I really had no clue. Just a questions, can I access them later and print them out? I haven't done that so far, but I want to print the essays all and combine them for model answers and not sure I can still access them.

I am also kind of freaking out because I am doing pretty bad at the PQ's, I just finished all 5 (I believe) sets of Property law questions (had to start early because of work) and I consistently either score at the goal, or lower. I think once I scored 5-10 percent more than the goal but that was it. Should that be a concern?

[Tala29]

Also, I am doing work for I would say 6-7 hours a day because frankly I have a hard time focusing more than that. But I spoke to my friends from Barbri and apparently they have been doing 9-11 hours because thats what their tasks say from their study program! I feel like none of the themis days include more than 6 hours of work, excluding self study. But I may be wrong. Thoughts?

[ubebarstudying]

Also, I am doing work for I would say 6-7 hours a day because frankly I have a hard time focusing more than that. But I spoke to my friends from Barbri and apparently they have been doing 9-11 hours because thats what their tasks say from their study program! I feel like none of the themis days include more than 6 hours of work, excluding self study. But I may be wrong. Thoughts?

Barbri can be very overwhelming from start to finish. I am not sure how much has changed since 2016 but they have an extra "tool" that used to be called barbri amp on top of lectures and practice questions and essays and if you do poorly on certain assignments it will generate an extra assignment for them, so yes that makes sense to me if the program has not changed much.

As far as your property questions if you are scoring at the goal this early in the game or just slightly under, I would not be too concerned yet - as the program progresses you'll get more mixed question sets and the practice exams should be helpful as well and you can focus on specific areas that you may be weaker in AND/OR you can contact Themis and express your concerns but I am not sure what they would say because of how early on it is and you are hitting the target or are close and said you had one that was 5-10 points above the average. Do you know if it's a specific subtopic or topic within property giving you issues? Is it when it gets kind of secured transaction-like, is it estates, future interests, mortgages (has been increasingly tested in recent years so I would venture a guess they are preparing examinees for that), etc.?

[Neilt001]

That seems like a good plan. I did the same with the essay if I knew the answer and did not want to waste time or if I really had no clue. Just a questions, can I access them later and print them out? I haven't done that so far, but I want to print the essays all and combine them for model answers and not sure I can still access them.

Yep, you can absolutely print them all off at the end and you definitely should. The model answers are great because they apply to so many different scenarios and they really help with your understanding (especially in subjects like civ pro, where I found the model answers helped explain a lot of stuff I was confused by).

I am also kind of freaking out because I am doing pretty bad at the PQ's, I just finished all 5 (I believe) sets of Property law questions (had to start early because of work) and I consistently either score at the goal, or lower. I think once I scored 5-10 percent more than the goal but that was it. Should that be a concern?

I wouldn't worry at all at this stage. Personally I scored in the 50s until about mid-way through the course, then I never scored more than like 65 or 68%, ever. I was SO worried and thought I was fucked, and I had almost daily freak outs and some tense discussions with my Themis supervisor. But I scored in the 85th percentile on the MBE (or a 75% raw score).

The key is learning from each question. What you should be doing is reviewing every wrong answer (and the right answers if they were flukes!) and making a note of the rule you missed. By the end of the course, I had written down like hundreds of rules in my notes and I tended not to make those same mistakes again. Writing it down helps solidify the rule in your mind, and of course allows you to review for later. You'll never get all the rules of course, because there's too many, but you'll eventually build up enough of an understanding to get yourself a solid passing score. You may not ace it (no one does), but you just need like 66% which is totally doable by the end of the course if you learn from your mistakes!

Finally, you will eventually learn which subjects are the hardest for you (Themis has helpful analytics to reveal your weaknesses). You should spend slightly more time on those weak areas (usually property and in my case con law) and you can afford to go slightly quicker on the easier ones (torts, contracts, what have you).

Either way, most people score poorly at this stage so don't worry and stay the course!

Good luck

[Neilt001]

That seems like a good plan. I did the same with the essay if I knew the answer and did not want to waste time or if I really had no clue. Just a questions, can I access them later and print them out? I haven't done that so far, but I want to print the essays all and combine them for model answers and not sure I can still access them.

Sorry I should say that you can access the answers at any time, and then copy/paste into a Word doc and print them like that. There's no 'print' feature in Themis. In any event, I liked using Word because I edited before printing. I highlighted important parts and deleted most of the fact-related stuff to keep the length down. The whole essay answer is overkill and overwhelming, and there's no point memorizing the facts. Keep it simple - a succinct statement of the rule is usually all you need, and maybe some of the application to the facts if that's helpful to see how the rule is applied.

[thisyearsgirl]

Also, I am doing work for I would say 6-7 hours a day because frankly I have a hard time focusing more than that. But I spoke to my friends from Barbri and apparently they have been doing 9-11 hours because thats what their tasks say from their study program! I feel like none of the themis days include more than 6 hours of work, excluding self study. But I may be wrong. Thoughts?

I've been doing about the same amount of work -- around 5-6 hrs w/ just pure Themis stuff + 1-2 hrs of self-study, depending on how tired/unfocused I feel. What have you guys been doing for self-study? I've mostly been outlining and then condensing outlines b/c I heard I shouldn't focus on memorization until July but it makes me nervous that I'm not supposed to memorize anything yet. Should I be flashcarding a little each day just to keep the subject fresh?

[ubebarstudying]

That seems like a good plan. I did the same with the essay if I knew the answer and did not want to waste time or if I really had no clue. Just a questions, can I access them later and print them out? I haven't done that so far, but I want to print the essays all and combine them for model answers and not sure I can still access them.

Sorry I should say that you can access the answers at any time, and then copy/paste into a Word doc and print them like that. There's no 'print' feature in Themis. In any event, I liked using Word because I edited before printing. I highlighted important parts and deleted most of the fact-related stuff to keep the length down. The whole essay answer is overkill and overwhelming, and there's no point memorizing the facts. Keep it simple - a succinct statement of the rule is usually all you need, and maybe some of the application to the facts if that's helpful to see how the rule is applied.

I actually found this to be helpful as well, and if they were MBE questions that I had gotten incorrect I tried to put the rule statement in my own words or come up with a memory device for it.

[Neilt001]

I've been doing about the same amount of work -- around 5-6 hrs w/ just pure Themis stuff + 1-2 hrs of self-study, depending on how tired/unfocused I feel. What have you guys been doing for self-study? I've mostly been outlining and then condensing outlines b/c I heard I shouldn't focus on memorization until July but it makes me nervous that I'm not supposed to memorize anything yet. Should I be flashcarding a little each day just to keep the subject fresh?

Personally, I didn't really focus on memorization until the end. At this stage I was just concerned about making sure my notes were thorough and complete, and I kept adding to my notes along the way (like whenever I got an MBE question wrong I would make sure my notes contained the rule I missed, and I also kept adding model MEE answers). So there wasn't much point in working on memorizing until near the end when you've finished all your subjects. At that stage you're moving from the note-taking and understanding stage, to the memorization and consolidation stage where you memorize and drill PQs.

Then again, some people may find it easier to do memorization work throughout. Might be useful to review your notes before bed every night for example. I eventually used Critical Pass flashcards, which were a good way to consolidate and review before bed or while travelling.

[lilkim12]

Hey all, checking in here, just getting started with Themis.

Quick question- do you guys take notes along with filling in the lecture handouts? I feel like the handouts miss some stuff from the lectures, but when using the pdf handouts I can only type/fill in the blanks, not add any other text to clarify or further explain things. I'm thinking about converting the pdfs to word docs, not sure how to go about this though. Trying to avoid using hard copy, as i cant write that fast.

Thanks!

[MoonSugar]

Quick question- do you guys take notes along with filling in the lecture handouts?

Hey, just started Themis this week. I have been using the hard copy since my laptop screen is too small to comfortably fit multiple open pages, but I have not been taking any extra notes, just filling in the blanks. Are you using the outlines as well? They contain more info, so I didn't see a need to write down anything extra. I could be wrong, but I feel like by the end of it all (outline + lecture handout + lecture outline + final review outline + practice questions and essays) we will have what we need in our head, and if we need something specific it all seems searchable.

[thisiswater]

Hey all, checking in here, just getting started with Themis.

Quick question- do you guys take notes along with filling in the lecture handouts? I feel like the handouts miss some stuff from the lectures, but when using the pdf handouts I can only type/fill in the blanks, not add any other text to clarify or further explain things. I'm thinking about converting the pdfs to word docs, not sure how to go about this though. Trying to avoid using hard copy, as i cant write that fast.

Thanks!

I'm using hard copy (typing tends to make me retain less) and I am writing down extra info sometimes plus lots of stars for things that seem key to me

[thisyearsgirl]

Hey all, checking in here, just getting started with Themis.

Quick question- do you guys take notes along with filling in the lecture handouts? I feel like the handouts miss some stuff from the lectures, but when using the pdf handouts I can only type/fill in the blanks, not add any other text to clarify or further explain things. I'm thinking about converting the pdfs to word docs, not sure how to go about this though. Trying to avoid using hard copy, as i cant write that fast.

Thanks!

I've been doing the lecture handouts via hardcopy, mostly b/c it's easier for me to pay attention when I'm handwriting. I'll occasionally make some notes and underline key points but it's mostly filling in the blanks for me.

[Neilt001]

Hey all, checking in here, just getting started with Themis.

Quick question- do you guys take notes along with filling in the lecture handouts? I feel like the handouts miss some stuff from the lectures, but when using the pdf handouts I can only type/fill in the blanks, not add any other text to clarify or further explain things. I'm thinking about converting the pdfs to word docs, not sure how to go about this though. Trying to avoid using hard copy, as i cant write that fast.

Thanks!

Personally (and I'm prolly in the minority) I made my own handwritten notes from scratch as I followed along in the lectures. The reason is because:

- I wanted my own layout (using boxes, bubbles, arrows, charts, lists, highlights);

- I felt that actively writing, distilling the info, and drawing diagrams during the lectures helped with comprehension/memorization rather than just passively following along filling in the occasional blank;

- my notes more accurately reflected the way my brain worked (again, using the visual element), rather than using someone else's notes (ie the lecture handouts/subject outlines);

- I could include the exact amount of detail/information I wanted, not too much and not too little. I was worried about being overwhelmed by too much info, so I decided to have complete control over what was in my notes;

- I felt this visual aspect of my notes was easier to memorize than the boring lines of text found in the lecture handouts and subject outlines;

- the subject outlines and even the lecture handouts were too detailed for what I wanted. My ultimate goal was to have a compact set of notes with distilled info; and

- by the end, I had a nice compact binder of my own notes. I didn't need to refer to the large Themis subject outlines or lecture handouts at all. It was all in my notes (this binder also included printed out model essay answers). I took that thing everywhere and added to it whenever I learned a new rule (like when you're doing MBE PQs). No need to cross-refer to other books, etc.

Anyway, just thought I would throw that out there in case some people find it helpful, and as this approach worked for me!

[MRSP]

Hey all, checking in here, just getting started with Themis.

Quick question- do you guys take notes along with filling in the lecture handouts? I feel like the handouts miss some stuff from the lectures, but when using the pdf handouts I can only type/fill in the blanks, not add any other text to clarify or further explain things. I'm thinking about converting the pdfs to word docs, not sure how to go about this though. Trying to avoid using hard copy, as i cant write that fast.

Thanks!

Personally (and I'm prolly in the minority) I made my own handwritten notes from scratch as I followed along in the lectures. The reason is because:

- I wanted my own layout (using boxes, bubbles, arrows, charts, lists, highlights);

- I felt that actively writing, distilling the info, and drawing diagrams during the lectures helped with comprehension/memorization rather than just passively following along filling in the occasional blank;

- my notes more accurately reflected the way my brain worked (again, using the visual element), rather than using someone else's notes (ie the lecture handouts/subject outlines);

- I could include the exact amount of detail/information I wanted, not too much and not too little. I was worried about being overwhelmed by too much info, so I decided to have complete control over what was in my notes;

- I felt this visual aspect of my notes was easier to memorize than the boring lines of text found in the lecture handouts and subject outlines;

- the subject outlines and even the lecture handouts were too detailed for what I wanted. My ultimate goal was to have a compact set of notes with distilled info; and

- by the end, I had a nice compact binder of my own notes. I didn't need to refer to the large Themis subject outlines or lecture handouts at all. It was all in my notes (this binder also included printed out model essay answers). I took that thing everywhere and added to it whenever I learned a new rule (like when you're doing MBE PQs). No need to cross-refer to other books, etc.

Anyway, just thought I would throw that out there in case some people find it helpful, and as this approach worked for me!

You aren't alone, I also am doing my own handwritten notes for all of the same reason you mentioned (increased memorization, format, etc). I am listening to the lectures on 1.5x speed and taking notes in my note book, which I will compare to a master outline I have.

How far along are you guys in the program so far? What subject/activity are you on? I am a few days behind and trying to catch up lol

[thisyearsgirl]

Hey all, checking in here, just getting started with Themis.

Quick question- do you guys take notes along with filling in the lecture handouts? I feel like the handouts miss some stuff from the lectures, but when using the pdf handouts I can only type/fill in the blanks, not add any other text to clarify or further explain things. I'm thinking about converting the pdfs to word docs, not sure how to go about this though. Trying to avoid using hard copy, as i cant write that fast.

Thanks!

Personally (and I'm prolly in the minority) I made my own handwritten notes from scratch as I followed along in the lectures. The reason is because:

- I wanted my own layout (using boxes, bubbles, arrows, charts, lists, highlights);

- I felt that actively writing, distilling the info, and drawing diagrams during the lectures helped with comprehension/memorization rather than just passively following along filling in the occasional blank;

- my notes more accurately reflected the way my brain worked (again, using the visual element), rather than using someone else's notes (ie the lecture handouts/subject outlines);

- I could include the exact amount of detail/information I wanted, not too much and not too little. I was worried about being overwhelmed by too much info, so I decided to have complete control over what was in my notes;

- I felt this visual aspect of my notes was easier to memorize than the boring lines of text found in the lecture handouts and subject outlines;

- the subject outlines and even the lecture handouts were too detailed for what I wanted. My ultimate goal was to have a compact set of notes with distilled info; and

- by the end, I had a nice compact binder of my own notes. I didn't need to refer to the large Themis subject outlines or lecture handouts at all. It was all in my notes (this binder also included printed out model essay answers). I took that thing everywhere and added to it whenever I learned a new rule (like when you're doing MBE PQs). No need to cross-refer to other books, etc.

Anyway, just thought I would throw that out there in case some people find it helpful, and as this approach worked for me!

You aren't alone, I also am doing my own handwritten notes for all of the same reason you mentioned (increased memorization, format, etc). I am listening to the lectures on 1.5x speed and taking notes in my note book, which I will compare to a master outline I have.

How far along are you guys in the program so far? What subject/activity are you on? I am a few days behind and trying to catch up lol

I'm a week into the program, on Property right now!

[Transfer2016]

Checking in. Currently 10% complete for IL. What is everyone doing for the "Review" segments? I'm just re-reading the final review outline and trying to convert it to memory.

[thisiswater]

I'm behind already but finishing contracts and advanced sales today for TX. Planning on not taking Monday off to get myself a little more back on track

[thisiswater]

Checking in. Currently 10% complete for IL. What is everyone doing for the "Review" segments? I'm just re-reading the final review outline and trying to convert it to memory.

I'm making flashcards from the outline and from the critical pass flashcards so they're short enough to drill. Also doing extra question sessions

[MRSP]

I'm behind already but finishing contracts and advanced sales today for TX. Planning on not taking Monday off to get myself a little more back on track

Same here! I can't take Monday off either to catch up. haven't done those two contracts essays yet