2018 July California Bar Forum

[dabigchina]

I found this calculator that suggests you can pass with a raw MBE score of 138 and an average written score of 55. this doesn't seem right to me. Is a raw score of 138 auto-pass territory for cali now since the MBE is now equally weighted to the written part?

https://one-timers.com/one-timers-bar-exam-calculator/

Are you saying it's too low or too high?

[cadreamer]

I found this calculator that suggests you can pass with a raw MBE score of 138 and an average written score of 55. this doesn't seem right to me. Is a raw score of 138 auto-pass territory for cali now since the MBE is now equally weighted to the written part?

https://one-timers.com/one-timers-bar-exam-calculator/

Are you saying it's too low or too high?

I'm not sure... I don't know what percentile rank that falls within on the current scale. I guess it depends if MBE or essays are more of your strength... With all the talk of the difficulty of the CA essays I'm surprised that I haven't seen more discussions centered on maximizing the MBE

[dabigchina]

I found this calculator that suggests you can pass with a raw MBE score of 138 and an average written score of 55. this doesn't seem right to me. Is a raw score of 138 auto-pass territory for cali now since the MBE is now equally weighted to the written part?

https://one-timers.com/one-timers-bar-exam-calculator/

Are you saying it's too low or too high?

I'm not sure... I don't know what percentile rank that falls within on the current scale. I guess it depends if MBE or essays are more of your strength... With all the talk of the difficulty of the CA essays I'm surprised that I haven't seen more discussions centered on maximizing the MBE

That calculator is kind of wonky. I don't know if I trust it tbh.

For instance, if you put 175/200 on the MBE section, it gives you you 1100 points towards your final score solely from the MBE. However, it's only possible to get 1000 points total from your MBE section based on CA's grading methodology.

The maximum scaled MBE score you can get is 200. CA multiples this by 10 and then divide it by 2 to get to the total points your MBE section counts towards your final score.) This means that even if you are the top scorer in America on the MBE, you would still only get 1000 points in CA for just taking the MBE.

You need a 1440 combined score to pass in CA. Given that the max amount of points you can get on the MBE section is 1000, you would need at least 440 from the essays to pass. According to the calculator, getting straight 40's on each essay gets you a scaled score of 389 on the essay section. This means that even if you had the highest MBE score in the country, you would still fail with a 1389 if you got straight 40's on the essays.

Given the above, I'm not sure if it's even mathematically possible for you to get straight 40's on the essays and autopass with just MBE in CA. This is of course contingent on the accuracy of the written scaled score presented by that calculator, which is suspect.

tl; dr: nobody even knows if it's possible

[chicoalto0649]

I found this calculator that suggests you can pass with a raw MBE score of 138 and an average written score of 55. this doesn't seem right to me. Is a raw score of 138 auto-pass territory for cali now since the MBE is now equally weighted to the written part?

https://one-timers.com/one-timers-bar-exam-calculator/

Are you saying it's too low or too high?

I'm not sure... I don't know what percentile rank that falls within on the current scale. I guess it depends if MBE or essays are more of your strength... With all the talk of the difficulty of the CA essays I'm surprised that I haven't seen more discussions centered on maximizing the MBE

That calculator is kind of wonky. I don't know if I trust it tbh.

For instance, if you put 175/200 on the MBE section, it gives you you 1100 points towards your final score solely from the MBE. However, it's only possible to get 1000 points total from your MBE section based on CA's grading methodology.

The maximum scaled MBE score you can get is 200. CA multiples this by 10 and then divide it by 2 to get to the total points your MBE section counts towards your final score.) This means that even if you are the top scorer in America on the MBE, you would still only get 1000 points in CA for just taking the MBE.

You need a 1440 combined score to pass in CA. Given that the max amount of points you can get on the MBE section is 1000, you would need at least 440 from the essays to pass. According to the calculator, getting straight 40's on each essay gets you a scaled score of 389 on the essay section. This means that even if you had the highest MBE score in the country, you would still fail with a 1389 if you got straight 40's on the essays.

Given the above, I'm not sure if it's even mathematically possible for you to get straight 40's on the essays and autopass with just MBE in CA. This is of course contingent on the accuracy of the written scaled score presented by that calculator, which is suspect.

tl; dr: nobody even knows if it's possible

Try this one...it's based directly off J17's scale. Only diff is you'll be plugging in your MBE scaled score, not the raw. I think a 130/175 amounts to roughly a 1500

https://ubeessays.com/california-july-2 ... alculator/

[Atmosphere]

sooooo barbri simulation scores anyone?

[maiden42]

sooooo barbri simulation scores anyone?

140 raw. I thought the questions were difficult and often had to pick between 2 choices. More difficult than the NCBE questions and I have been practicing with Adaptibar much more than BarBri.

FWIW, I've done 401 Adaptibar Questions at 66.3% and about 150 questions from Emanuel's.

Also, Mike Sims' webinar is a waste of time. [Listening now]

[ladybug1989]

Any idea what percentile an essay score of 55 is? Is it like bottom 20% of test takers?

[santoki]

in light of the Barbri simulated MBE, i've been looking around TLS but am failing to come to a decent understanding.

what kind of raw/scaled score on the REAL exam is considered "average", "good", or "great"?

[maiden42]

in light of the Barbri simulated MBE, i've been looking around TLS but am failing to come to a decent understanding.

what kind of raw/scaled score on the REAL exam is considered "average", "good", or "great"?

You can play around with this, but you will want a 119 raw on game day. https://one-timers.com/one-timers-bar-exam-calculator/

BarBri suggests adding 20 points to your simulated exam to estimate your raw on game day. There are some older threads where people compared their real MBE to their BarBri simulated score. Sorry on mobile and don’t have the link handy.

[lawyer786]

So I decided to not do the barbri simulated MBE and did 200 questions on Adaptibar instead. I got 138/200, but am not really sure how this would translate. Is this a passing score?

[a male human]

So I decided to not do the barbri simulated MBE and did 200 questions on Adaptibar instead. I got 138/200, but am not really sure how this would translate. Is this a passing score?

Depends on how you do on the written portion

Assuming you get a 1440 scaled written score, yeah, 138 is quite a healthy score

[santoki]

go through the BarBri simulated MBE analysis videos per subject or self-review with the provided explanations?

[cadreamer]

I found this calculator that suggests you can pass with a raw MBE score of 138 and an average written score of 55. this doesn't seem right to me. Is a raw score of 138 auto-pass territory for cali now since the MBE is now equally weighted to the written part?

https://one-timers.com/one-timers-bar-exam-calculator/

Are you saying it's too low or too high?

I'm not sure... I don't know what percentile rank that falls within on the current scale. I guess it depends if MBE or essays are more of your strength... With all the talk of the difficulty of the CA essays I'm surprised that I haven't seen more discussions centered on maximizing the MBE

That calculator is kind of wonky. I don't know if I trust it tbh.

For instance, if you put 175/200 on the MBE section, it gives you you 1100 points towards your final score solely from the MBE. However, it's only possible to get 1000 points total from your MBE section based on CA's grading methodology.

The maximum scaled MBE score you can get is 200. CA multiples this by 10 and then divide it by 2 to get to the total points your MBE section counts towards your final score.) This means that even if you are the top scorer in America on the MBE, you would still only get 1000 points in CA for just taking the MBE.

You need a 1440 combined score to pass in CA. Given that the max amount of points you can get on the MBE section is 1000, you would need at least 440 from the essays to pass. According to the calculator, getting straight 40's on each essay gets you a scaled score of 389 on the essay section. This means that even if you had the highest MBE score in the country, you would still fail with a 1389 if you got straight 40's on the essays.

Given the above, I'm not sure if it's even mathematically possible for you to get straight 40's on the essays and autopass with just MBE in CA. This is of course contingent on the accuracy of the written scaled score presented by that calculator, which is suspect.

tl; dr: nobody even knows if it's possible

Try this one...it's based directly off J17's scale. Only diff is you'll be plugging in your MBE scaled score, not the raw. I think a 130/175 amounts to roughly a 1500

https://ubeessays.com/california-july-2 ... alculator/

thanks! this is good

Any idea what percentile an essay score of 55 is? Is it like bottom 20% of test takers?

the ubessays calcualtor is great, thanks! I found the below description for essay scoring on the onetimer website:

55: "needs a lot of improvment. But hit some issues"
60: "not quite passing. but not too bad"
65: "passing score"
70: "very good answer. nicely organized. "

[politibro44]

How is everyone prepping for the essays?

I know to write, outline, or read as many past essays (and their model answers) as possible. But how are people digesting or keeping track of what you are learning with each essay?

I've been making super short attack outlines using the BarBri essay book, and adding to them as I learn from each essay. Are these outlines with their "slap down" rule statements a solid base for your own checklists/attack outlines? They seem like one of the better BarBri resources.

Curious to hear what other people are doing. And if what I'm doing sounds like a waste of time and if I'd be better off solely focusing on past essays.

[a male human]

How is everyone prepping for the essays?

I know to write, outline, or read as many past essays (and their model answers) as possible. But how are people digesting or keeping track of what you are learning with each essay?

I've been making super short attack outlines using the BarBri essay book, and adding to them as I learn from each essay. Are these outlines with their "slap down" rule statements a solid base for your own checklists/attack outlines? They seem like one of the better BarBri resources.

Curious to hear what other people are doing. And if what I'm doing sounds like a waste of time and if I'd be better off solely focusing on past essays.

I think your way is good. You're building an outline containing what you're learning. In addition, this outline focuses on the most important and testable things because you're doing it based on your practice.

What helped me a lot was to write down the issues and rules by hand for each essay within 10-15 minutes. This basically outlined the approach for every issue in the essay, the ones I identified at least. I added the ones I missed.

Next time I saw a similar essay or issue, I knew how to approach it. I built a stack of these IR outlines ("cooked" essays) that became a quick reference and review material to flip through, including in the hotel room. It was easy to track by subject and issue this way.

[MBernard]

Quick Question. I'm taking the exam at the Ontario Convention Center, does anyone know if the Center Supplies foam earplugs or should we bring our own? Also, does the convention center have a secured zone for us to bring boxed lunches? Thanks!

[BlueLaw11]

Quick Question. I'm taking the exam at the Ontario Convention Center, does anyone know if the Center Supplies foam earplugs or should we bring our own? Also, does the convention center have a secured zone for us to bring boxed lunches? Thanks!

Not sure about this specific venue, but my guess is that we probably can't use earplugs? I know the LSAT explicitly forbade those. Hopefully we can though cause I rely on earplugs for exams

[MBernard]

Quick Question. I'm taking the exam at the Ontario Convention Center, does anyone know if the Center Supplies foam earplugs or should we bring our own? Also, does the convention center have a secured zone for us to bring boxed lunches? Thanks!

Not sure about this specific venue, but my guess is that we probably can't use earplugs? I know the LSAT explicitly forbade those. Hopefully we can though cause I rely on earplugs for exams

Foam earplugs are listed under allowed items, so no worries (link - http://www.calbar.ca.gov/Admissions/Exa ... Exam-Rules). They're very useful. Just was curious if the exam center would supply them (Texas did, but I don't if Cali does so I'll probably just buy 'em at CVS).

[maxmartin]

Quick Question. I'm taking the exam at the Ontario Convention Center, does anyone know if the Center Supplies foam earplugs or should we bring our own? Also, does the convention center have a secured zone for us to bring boxed lunches? Thanks!

No earplugs, only thing provided is water and tissue paper.

No secure zone, you can bring what ever you want and leave it outside of the exam hall but still inside the building. You can eat your lunch outside of the building after the exam because the building will be closed between exam sessions.

[politibro44]

How is everyone prepping for the essays?

I know to write, outline, or read as many past essays (and their model answers) as possible. But how are people digesting or keeping track of what you are learning with each essay?

I've been making super short attack outlines using the BarBri essay book, and adding to them as I learn from each essay. Are these outlines with their "slap down" rule statements a solid base for your own checklists/attack outlines? They seem like one of the better BarBri resources.

Curious to hear what other people are doing. And if what I'm doing sounds like a waste of time and if I'd be better off solely focusing on past essays.

I think your way is good. You're building an outline containing what you're learning. In addition, this outline focuses on the most important and testable things because you're doing it based on your practice.

What helped me a lot was to write down the issues and rules by hand for each essay within 10-15 minutes. This basically outlined the approach for every issue in the essay, the ones I identified at least. I added the ones I missed.

Next time I saw a similar essay or issue, I knew how to approach it. I built a stack of these IR outlines ("cooked" essays) that became a quick reference and review material to flip through, including in the hotel room. It was easy to track by subject and issue this way.

Thanks. That post you wrote was super helpful.

I like the idea of constructing an outline that is just past bar essay questions and your "cooked" outline of the essay with rule statements. Seem like the perfect way to review. Will implement that going forward.

Is there a reason you handwrote them out?

[a male human]

How is everyone prepping for the essays?

I know to write, outline, or read as many past essays (and their model answers) as possible. But how are people digesting or keeping track of what you are learning with each essay?

I've been making super short attack outlines using the BarBri essay book, and adding to them as I learn from each essay. Are these outlines with their "slap down" rule statements a solid base for your own checklists/attack outlines? They seem like one of the better BarBri resources.

Curious to hear what other people are doing. And if what I'm doing sounds like a waste of time and if I'd be better off solely focusing on past essays.

I think your way is good. You're building an outline containing what you're learning. In addition, this outline focuses on the most important and testable things because you're doing it based on your practice.

What helped me a lot was to write down the issues and rules by hand for each essay within 10-15 minutes. This basically outlined the approach for every issue in the essay, the ones I identified at least. I added the ones I missed.

Next time I saw a similar essay or issue, I knew how to approach it. I built a stack of these IR outlines ("cooked" essays) that became a quick reference and review material to flip through, including in the hotel room. It was easy to track by subject and issue this way.

Thanks. That post you wrote was super helpful.

I like the idea of constructing an outline that is just past bar essay questions and your "cooked" outline of the essay with rule statements. Seem like the perfect way to review. Will implement that going forward.

Is there a reason you handwrote them out?

Glad to hear. I handwrote on paper because I was mimicking what I'd do on test day. It's quicker to jot down the outline and rearrange things on the fly -- less resistance to doing the work than firing up a Word document and looking back and forth between the essay and the screen. Turns out it's also visceral and easier to recall later as a reference.

[justanotheruser]

Foam earplugs are listed under allowed items, so no worries (link - http://www.calbar.ca.gov/Admissions/Exa ... Exam-Rules). They're very useful. Just was curious if the exam center would supply them (Texas did, but I don't if Cali does so I'll probably just buy 'em at CVS).

I took it at both Pasadena and Ontario. They don't provide you with anything, so yeah, make sure you get your own earplugs.

[MBernard]

No earplugs, only thing provided is water and tissue paper.
No secure zone, you can bring what ever you want and leave it outside of the exam hall but still inside the building. You can eat your lunch outside of the building after the exam because the building will be closed between exam sessions.

I took it at both Pasadena and Ontario. They don't provide you with anything, so yeah, make sure you get your own earplugs.

Thank you both! It may seem trivial but I always like knowing what to expect. Hope everyone has a great 4th.

[EIWIsMyFetish]

So I decided to not do the barbri simulated MBE and did 200 questions on Adaptibar instead. I got 138/200, but am not really sure how this would translate. Is this a passing score?

just want to lend my opinion here and help you out

first time taker, using barbri and adaptibar, etc etc etc. I've done 1500 adaptibar questions. It wasn't even CLOSE. You should not equate the simulated barbri exam with adaptibar questions. Barbri imo was unquestionably harder than what I've seen on adaptibar. With the exception of civpro, where it was a toss-up.

take that simulated exam. it's rough but it's worth it. it will expose your weaknesses and beat those weaknesses into submission, and then Barbri will help you up with explanations.

just my thoughts/opinions.

[barprepforca]

I just did this question and am having trouble wrapping my mind around why it comes in as to bias rather than not being inadmissible as part of a plea deal:

A defendant was charged with murder, and a witness testified for the prosecution. On cross-examination of the witness, the defendant seeks to elicit an admission that the witness was also charged with the same murder and that the prosecutor told her, "If you testify against the defendant, we will drop the charges against you after the conclusion of the defendant's trial."

The evidence about the prosecutor's promise is

admissible, as proper impeachment of the witness. (Right)
inadmissible, because the law encourages plea-bargaining.(Wrong)