2018 February CA Bar Forum

[needbreak]

I am afraid to even look at the essays...I don't want to realize what issues I missed.

lol. I know what you mean. I just viewed this review for question 1 of the cbx. I remember I did discuss that the seller was sent a message by the mfr. Not sure what else I wrote though. But I now feel better about this question. Here is the video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OFKoOxJmrFc&t=6s

[What'sUP?]

I am afraid to even look at the essays...I don't want to realize what issues I missed.

lol. I know what you mean. I just viewed this review for question 1 of the cbx. I remember I did discuss that the seller was sent a message by the mfr. Not sure what else I wrote though. But I now feel better about this question. Here is the video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OFKoOxJmrFc&t=6s

Thanks for sharing the video. I actually like what he had to say in general about the exam and his discussion about the question. Made me feel a bit better.

[Cem2030]

I am afraid to even look at the essays...I don't want to realize what issues I missed.

lol. I know what you mean. I just viewed this review for question 1 of the cbx. I remember I did discuss that the seller was sent a message by the mfr. Not sure what else I wrote though. But I now feel better about this question. Here is the video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OFKoOxJmrFc&t=6s

Thanks for sharing the video. I actually like what he had to say in general about the exam and his discussion about the question. Made me feel a bit better.

Made me feel a little better too. But I'm now wondering whether it was okay to argue that the lawyer's testimony during closing was a competency issue.

[What'sUP?]

I am afraid to even look at the essays...I don't want to realize what issues I missed.

lol. I know what you mean. I just viewed this review for question 1 of the cbx. I remember I did discuss that the seller was sent a message by the mfr. Not sure what else I wrote though. But I now feel better about this question. Here is the video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OFKoOxJmrFc&t=6s

Thanks for sharing the video. I actually like what he had to say in general about the exam and his discussion about the question. Made me feel a bit better.

Made me feel a little better too. But I'm now wondering whether it was okay to argue that the lawyer's testimony during closing was a competency issue.

Sounds like that is what he was saying . . . while his video of question 1 made me feel better . . . I am not sure how the others will make me feel. Haha. I was just speaking with a friend today who is sitting for the July Bar Exam about how "crazy" the bar makes you if you let it! Some days I still find myself totally obsessed. We'll see. . .

[Cem2030]

I am afraid to even look at the essays...I don't want to realize what issues I missed.

lol. I know what you mean. I just viewed this review for question 1 of the cbx. I remember I did discuss that the seller was sent a message by the mfr. Not sure what else I wrote though. But I now feel better about this question. Here is the video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OFKoOxJmrFc&t=6s

Thanks for sharing the video. I actually like what he had to say in general about the exam and his discussion about the question. Made me feel a bit better.

Made me feel a little better too. But I'm now wondering whether it was okay to argue that the lawyer's testimony during closing was a competency issue.

Sounds like that is what he was saying . . . while his video of question 1 made me feel better . . . I am not sure how the others will make me feel. Haha. I was just speaking with a friend today who is sitting for the July Bar Exam about how "crazy" the bar makes you if you let it! Some days I still find myself totally obsessed. We'll see. . .

He raised the competency issue only w.r.t. the selection of the expert witness (not the L's closing testimony).

[Bla Bla Bla Blah]

Does anybody know where I can find confirmation that the date the results will be released is May 11? I believe that their target date for releasing the results is 5/11 but I haven't been able to find a source that confirms. It would be nice for them to at least commit to a release date...

http://www.calbar.ca.gov/Admissions

February Bar results will be released - MAY 18th

Mailed, May 18. Online pass-list, May 21.

[Yogagirl]

Results will be released online at 6:00 p.m. on Friday, May 18. Unsuccessful candidates will received conformation in the mail shortly thereafter. I wish everyone the best of luck. This was my third attempt.

[Cem2030]

Results will be released online at 6:00 p.m. on Friday, May 18. Unsuccessful candidates will received conformation in the mail shortly thereafter. I wish everyone the best of luck. This was my third attempt.

I think both unsuccessful and successful candidates will receive confirmation in the mail.

[Yogagirl]

I have not yet been in the latter category, but hope to be this time.

[What'sUP?]

I am soooo not even going to look -- I would much rather prefer to wait for the snail mail. We'll see as I actually couldn't even restrain myself from looking at the released exam questions!!!!! Today, my thought is . . . "Ahh. The masterpieces we could have written if we just had more time." And, that definitely applies to the PT! Best to everyone. Here's to getting good results!

[Bla Bla Bla Blah]

Such a shitty feeling to feel like you prepared and did well, but on the other hand, could have 100 percent bombed harder than ever before. Not sure what I will do if I bombed. I'm not sure if I'll know where to start if I don't pass, is the issue. How to you retrace your incorrect steps when everything about your preparation said you would pass? Just my nervous random thought of the day, but would like to know if this becomes a reality.

Wish everyone here the best!

[a male human]

Such a shitty feeling to feel like you prepared and did well, but on the other hand, could have 100 percent bombed harder than ever before. Not sure what I will do if I bombed. I'm not sure if I'll know where to start if I don't pass, is the issue. How to you retrace your incorrect steps when everything about your preparation said you would pass? Just my nervous random thought of the day, but would like to know if this becomes a reality.

Wish everyone here the best!

Probably try again and make sure your basics are solid (IRAC) and know how to present/arrange issues (order can be important depending on the essay).

I think the unfortunate reality is that essay grading is pretty subjective. Sometimes there is not a big difference between a 55 and a 70. Sometimes graders give you different scores, as seen by cases where a third, supervisory grader makes the final call when the first two scores are more than 10 points apart.

As for MBEs, I'm working on a brand new article about that (pitched to a well-known company...). I think you guys will enjoy it.

[What'sUP?]

Such a shitty feeling to feel like you prepared and did well, but on the other hand, could have 100 percent bombed harder than ever before. Not sure what I will do if I bombed. I'm not sure if I'll know where to start if I don't pass, is the issue. How to you retrace your incorrect steps when everything about your preparation said you would pass? Just my nervous random thought of the day, but would like to know if this becomes a reality.

Wish everyone here the best!

I hear you!!! To confess, I have been somewhat obsessing -- which has become useless -- as I obviously cannot remember exactly what I wrote. Yet, I wonder -- as are some of us -- "Did I even do that right?" For example, all of a sudden I started freaking out about the PT. During the exam I would say that, I felt -- ummmmm -- okay, about it. I remember having to make some alterations/consolidations to my organization and I do recall shifting stuff around for the sake of time! But, for some reason the other night I was seriously wondering "Were my headings totally jacked up?" Which freaked me out . . . and I started wondering about it as if it mattered. Which it doesn't at this point because what's done is done. And, then I think, "Ummm, let's get real here, there are like a lot of things that could potentially lead to my downfall -- as in, the MBE was not like a breeze by any means." So, I am just gonna hold on tight until results day.

Thanks everyone for sharing and for reading/listening. So assuring to know someone else feels the same.

[What'sUP?]

Such a shitty feeling to feel like you prepared and did well, but on the other hand, could have 100 percent bombed harder than ever before. Not sure what I will do if I bombed. I'm not sure if I'll know where to start if I don't pass, is the issue. How to you retrace your incorrect steps when everything about your preparation said you would pass? Just my nervous random thought of the day, but would like to know if this becomes a reality.

Wish everyone here the best!

Well, hopefully you passed! I am just trying to keep things in perspective -- I mean its not like if I don't pass, I won't be sitting for it again in July. So, I am just trying to maintain a forward thinking attitude so that I can try to move forward as calmly and as focused as possible. It will be disappointing and possibly gut wrenching . . . to again . . . get a score report, but its a real possibility. I have to face it and stay focused on strategy because I don't think it will change my mind about taking it in July.

[What'sUP?]

Such a shitty feeling to feel like you prepared and did well, but on the other hand, could have 100 percent bombed harder than ever before. Not sure what I will do if I bombed. I'm not sure if I'll know where to start if I don't pass, is the issue. How to you retrace your incorrect steps when everything about your preparation said you would pass? Just my nervous random thought of the day, but would like to know if this becomes a reality.

Wish everyone here the best!

Well, hopefully you passed! I am just trying to keep things in perspective -- I mean its not like if I don't pass, I won't be sitting for it again in July. So, I am just trying to maintain a forward thinking attitude so that I can try to move forward as calmly and as focused as possible. It will be disappointing and possibly gut wrenching . . . to again . . . get a score report, but its a real possibility. I have to face it and stay focused on strategy because I don't think it will change my mind about taking it in July.

And, I know keeping perspective on something like this is easier 'said' than 'done' but, I gotta try.

[BrainToast]

Such a shitty feeling to feel like you prepared and did well, but on the other hand, could have 100 percent bombed harder than ever before. Not sure what I will do if I bombed. I'm not sure if I'll know where to start if I don't pass, is the issue. How to you retrace your incorrect steps when everything about your preparation said you would pass? Just my nervous random thought of the day, but would like to know if this becomes a reality.

Wish everyone here the best!

Same here.

I never studied that hard in my life and still can’t be certain I passed. Crazt.

As for the essays, I take solace in the fact that I didn’t freeze,finished each section on time, stricly IRAC’d, and wrote a lot of arguments. When the test started and the bullets started flying, i reverted back to my training. I see why people recommend doing practice. When I came across an issue I couldn’t remember how to handle i didn't freeze. Just IRAC it with a half baked rule based on what I thought.

The PT, same thing. I did enough practice to where i flew through it and had time to cite and organize well. But the problem is, who knows what i wrote was correct? But it sounds and looks nice. Haha

The MBEs were rough. But I finished on time so there is that.

[a male human]

Such a shitty feeling to feel like you prepared and did well, but on the other hand, could have 100 percent bombed harder than ever before. Not sure what I will do if I bombed. I'm not sure if I'll know where to start if I don't pass, is the issue. How to you retrace your incorrect steps when everything about your preparation said you would pass? Just my nervous random thought of the day, but would like to know if this becomes a reality.

Wish everyone here the best!

Same here.

I never studied that hard in my life and still can’t be certain I passed. Crazt.

As for the essays, I take solace in the fact that I didn’t freeze,finished each section on time, stricly IRAC’d, and wrote a lot of arguments. When the test started and the bullets started flying, i reverted back to my training. I see why people recommend doing practice. When I came across an issue I couldn’t remember how to handle i didn't freeze. Just IRAC it with a half baked rule based on what I thought.

The PT, same thing. I did enough practice to where i flew through it and had time to cite and organize well. But the problem is, who knows what i wrote was correct? But it sounds and looks nice. Haha

The MBEs were rough. But I finished on time so there is that.

“We don’t rise to the level of our expectations. We fall to the level of our training.”—Archilochus

[What'sUP?]

Such a shitty feeling to feel like you prepared and did well, but on the other hand, could have 100 percent bombed harder than ever before. Not sure what I will do if I bombed. I'm not sure if I'll know where to start if I don't pass, is the issue. How to you retrace your incorrect steps when everything about your preparation said you would pass? Just my nervous random thought of the day, but would like to know if this becomes a reality.

Wish everyone here the best!

Same here.

I never studied that hard in my life and still can’t be certain I passed. Crazt.

As for the essays, I take solace in the fact that I didn’t freeze,finished each section on time, stricly IRAC’d, and wrote a lot of arguments. When the test started and the bullets started flying, i reverted back to my training. I see why people recommend doing practice. When I came across an issue I couldn’t remember how to handle i didn't freeze. Just IRAC it with a half baked rule based on what I thought.

The PT, same thing. I did enough practice to where i flew through it and had time to cite and organize well. But the problem is, who knows what i wrote was correct? But it sounds and looks nice. Haha

The MBEs were rough. But I finished on time so there is that.

I hear you . . . and I can relate to your experience and approach. I do share the same ultimate sentiment with respect to the PT and am wondering if what I wrote was even "correct." Now, that I look back and have taken a second look . . . I feel like I could have really BOTCHED it. Not because it wasn't organized, or because I didn't cite law, or use some facts -- I just don't know if I did it right with respect to my arguments and reasoning. I don't know that I cited the law from the cases that the examiners were specifically looking for; or made use of certain facts they will be looking for.

I do feel like it made sense at the time, and that I did my best to articulate a point but I am not sure it is correct. So, I have had to take a real HONEST look at things these past few days as I have reflected on the PT and I do honestly feel that I may have screwed it up in a big way. The reason it has me so concerned at this late date as opposed to earlier is that I recently read somewhere that if you don't pass the PT, you don't pass the exam. I don't know whether or not that is true. But, I feel like I could be ROYALLY screwed if that is the case. Thanks again for sharing and 'listening'.

[jgmatth]

I can empathize with you on the PT. I had a very hard time organizing the information let alone putting a coherent essay together. This is my fourth bar exam. I was fortunate enough to pass the first three in three other jurisdictions. Those bar exams are world's apart from this one both in breadth of scope and in difficulty.

On another note, I received an email this morning from Calbar telling me that the results will be available online on May 18 but that results will be mailed via snail mail on the 11th. Since this is different that what we were told at the bar exam site, I wanted to see if anyone else received the email and if they have a take on if it is of any significance.

[What'sUP?]

I can empathize with you on the PT. I had a very hard time organizing the information let alone putting a coherent essay together. This is my fourth bar exam. I was fortunate enough to pass the first three in three other jurisdictions. Those bar exams are world's apart from this one both in breadth of scope and in difficulty.

On another note, I received an email this morning from Calbar telling me that the results will be available online on May 18 but that results will be mailed via snail mail on the 11th. Since this is different that what we were told at the bar exam site, I wanted to see if anyone else received the email and if they have a take on if it is of any significance.

I got the same email. I believe it says that the results will be mailed on May 18th to the address applicants have on file as of May 11th. So, if we need to change it, to make sure to change it by then.

[CDNKimberley]

I received the same email. Results will be mailed and on-line on the 18th. The 11th reference is just for purposes of the address they will mail to on the 18th.

2 weeks to go!!

[needbreak]

I am afraid to even look at the essays...I don't want to realize what issues I missed.

lol. I know what you mean. I just viewed this review for question 1 of the cbx. I remember I did discuss that the seller was sent a message by the mfr. Not sure what else I wrote though. But I now feel better about this question. Here is the video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OFKoOxJmrFc&t=6s

Thanks for sharing the video. I actually like what he had to say in general about the exam and his discussion about the question. Made me feel a bit better.

Made me feel a little better too. But I'm now wondering whether it was okay to argue that the lawyer's testimony during closing was a competency issue.

Sounds like that is what he was saying . . . while his video of question 1 made me feel better . . . I am not sure how the others will make me feel. Haha. I was just speaking with a friend today who is sitting for the July Bar Exam about how "crazy" the bar makes you if you let it! Some days I still find myself totally obsessed. We'll see. . .

He raised the competency issue only w.r.t. the selection of the expert witness (not the L's closing testimony).

True. As I was looking at bar essay.com, I remember how passing answers varied in content as far as issue-spotting goes. I hope a good analysis will beat mentioning all of the potential issues. After all, the clock was ticking. Seems like the clock is always ticking. lol.

[lawschool11111111]

I have a question regarding scaling.

As the CA bar scales to the MBE, and as the February 2018 MBE mean scores will almost certainly be lower than the July 2017 MBE mean, can we expect to face a less favorable scale (as compared to July exams)?

When averaging out my July 2017 essays and PT I earned an average of "65" across the board. My scaled written score was 1537.

From my understanding of the CA bar scaling process, if I earn the same written average as I did in July 2017 (an average of "65" across the board), I can expect a scaled written score of less than 1537 right? Or is there no way to tell?

CA Bar "Scaling Explained" link: http://www.calbar.ca.gov/Admissions/Exa ... on/Scaling

[lawschool11111111]

I have a question regarding scaling.

I have come across numerous posts where people have stated that the written portion of the exam is curved to the MBE, and that accordingly a lower mean scaled MBE score in one administration will mean that the written portion will be subject to a tougher scale (as opposed an administration where the scaled MBE score is higher).

However, after doing a little research of my own, it appears that this isn't quite true.

In CA the average scaled MBE mean score for July 2014 was 1435, where as the average scaled MBE mean score for February 2014 was lower (1421).

I pulled the following information, and while this is just a single example, it appears to disprove the conclusion that a lower mean scaled MBE score in one administration will mean that the written portion will be subject to a tougher scale.

July 2014 Scaled Written Score: (Raw written score x 3.1098) - 469.4400

February 2014 Scaled Written Score: (Raw written score x 3.1584) – 460.6635

If you averaged a 65 across the board on the essays/PT (650 raw written score in total) in February 2014, you would have received a scaled written score of 1592. But if you earned the same raw written score in July 2014 you would have received a written score of 1551.

So it appears that no one can accurately predict whether the scale will be "tougher" or "easier" from one administration to the next? And if that is the case, then it would appear that the committee factors in the difficulty of the MBE and/or the written portion when determining the scale?

[a male human]

As far as I know, the written portion and the MBE portion are calculated differently, then put together after assigning a weight (since this is 50/50 now, it's simply an average of the two scaled scores).

The NCBE generates a raw-to-scaled conversion. For example, a raw score of 125 correct would mean a scaled score of 137 (purely an example). In CA, this is multiplied by 10 to a 2000-point scale.

MBE scores are reported on a scale ranging from 0 to 2000 points. On the written section of the examination, applicants are graded initially on a basis of 700 possible raw points: 100 points for each of the five essay questions and 200 points for the PT. The scores obtained on the written section of the examination are then translated to the 2000-point MBE scale. An applicant’s total score is the scale MBE score (on the 2000-point scale) multiplied by .50 plus the converted score on the written section multiplied by .50. Scaling ensures the two portions of the examination carry the relative weights assigned to them: written (50 percent) and MBE (50 percent).

http://www.calbar.ca.gov/Admissions/Exa ... a-Bar-Exam

The written score is converted from 700 raw points to the 2000-point scale. Now you have two scores out of 2000 points, which are averaged to give you a composite score. This score needs to be at least 1440 to pass.

Now, there is no way to predict what the scaling will be. Generally (historically), an average written score of 62.5 was enough to put you on track to a 1440 written scaled score, hence the misnomer of the "passing score" of 65. 65 is simply the safe score you want to aim for if you want a good shot at passing. It doesn't mean you "pass" the essay or the written portion; your MBE score still needs to be in the neighborhood of 1440.

If the MBE scores were lower across the board, theoretically the conversion done at the NCBE already accounted for the difficulty of the exam. For instance, a scaled score of 137 this year is equivalent to a 137 last year regardless of the number of questions correct. One year, they blamed the "less able" students for the lower scores, but it seems like the exam is getting tougher overall. No time for debates though.

So you are correct that the MBE score does not affect the written scaled score; it only affects your composite score. At most, the written raw score is translated to the same scale or measurement as the MBE score (the 2000-point scale).