California Bar Moral Character Application Forum

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Re: California Bar Moral Character Application

Post by Anonymous User » Wed Mar 30, 2022 4:47 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Thu Mar 24, 2022 10:44 am
noice wrote:
Wed Mar 23, 2022 8:40 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Tue Mar 22, 2022 2:24 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Sat Mar 19, 2022 5:43 pm
would having like 20 applications as a police officer (never got hired, finally did on the last one) cause me problems? these are technically applications for a license that were denied (POST license). this was like 10 years ago.
How is an application for a position as a LEO technically an applicaton for a license that was denied because you didn't get the job? Can you provide some sort of reference from the State Bar that states that or even infers it? Thanx.
the Cal Bar FAQ says you have to list applications for anything that require a determination of moral character, to include a government security clearance (which is NOT a license, and arguably not within the scope of the question, so if you didn't read the FAQ you probably wouldn't know)

2. I have a government security clearance. Do I have to report my security clearance
certification in the moral character application?
Yes. The moral character application requires the disclosure of all professional licenses
that include a character determination component (e.g., questions concerning
convictions or disciplinary matters), including security clearance certifications. Examples
of professional licenses that typically include a character determination component
include licensure as a Certified Public Accountant, Patent Practitioner, Real Estate
Salesperson or Broker, Notary Public, or Teacher.


(Again, a security clearance is not a license. It does require a moral character determination, but is not a license...)

Anyway, an LEO application in many states is ultimately an application for a peace officer license (California, Arizona, etc etc). This application requires a moral character determination (background check). Thus, you should list it.

https://www.calbar.ca.gov/Portals/0/doc ... er-FAQ.pdf
I read it. So did my attorney. Nowhere does it state you have to list 20 applications for employment as a peace officer. However, if you and your attorney believe it is prudent, then by all means list them. But again, nowhere does the application or the Rules require it.

From the document you cited:

3. Do I have to disclose a potential place of employment in the moral character application? No. The moral character application requires that the applicant disclose any job lasting more than six months and any law-related job, regardless of the length of time employed, where the applicant is either employed at the time the moral character application is filed or has been employed.

The application for moral character determination is how you present yourself to the bar. Do yourself a HUGE favor and have an attorney help you with it.
i asked an attorney and they said "no." it is still very confusing to me how this question is worded. they said a peace officer thing is a certification, not a license. maybe because you aren't directly applying for the license, you apply through the department? i dont know. but you also have to list security clearances. a security clearance is not a fucking professional license...

the FAQ i quoted above is very, very confusing.

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Re: California Bar Moral Character Application

Post by Anonymous User » Mon Apr 25, 2022 8:59 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Mon May 17, 2021 10:01 pm
davidsimani wrote:
Tue Apr 06, 2021 6:49 pm

*REDACTED*

Hey, I am currently in a similar situation. Have you made any progress with the CA Bar and do you have any advice you can share about the process? Thanks in Advance!
I can weigh in here. I was recently approved after having more than 10 criminal misdemeanor charges resulting in more than five misdemeanor convictions. One was related to alcohol. Most of the rest were related to arguing with or running from cops. I also made other poor choices that resulted in job terminations. The process was emotionally challenging and effortful. It took me roughly 2 years from the date I applied for C+F and roughly 20 months after I passed the bar exam to be approved.

In my view, the best thing someone with a past like us can do is hire an attorney (and the RIGHT attorney) before filing any C+F paperwork. This can avoid certain issues on the front end. If you've already filed, hire one now. Be wary of certain attorneys operating in this space--some are of low quality and offer "one size fits all" advice. Avoid those attorneys. Try not to fret too much over requests for additional information from the bar--this is essentially a formality for anyone who has something in their past.

In a broader sense, all or most of the concerns voiced in this thread previously are founded, in my opinion. This process does disadvantage people with a past. It is, arguably, disproportionate to most of the infractions that lead to heightened scrutiny and delay. However, it is potentially surmountable for almost everyone with both short and long lists of prior indiscretions. In my opinion, it remains our duty as current and future members of the California bar to seek reform of this prejudicial process. In my opinion, our best avenue for reform are the public California bar meetings where there is time for public comment on internal bar association operations.

I think our leading argument for reform--and the one that will reduce the greatest source of harm to formerly justice involved applicants--is focusing on the lack of efficiency in the moral character determination process. There is little reason or justification why even applicants with spotless records must wait 6+ months for a moral character determination when studying for and passing the bar exam takes half that time. No other states (save for perhaps Florida) face such delays. New York is much more efficient.

In many ways, California leads the nation in technological advancement and industry. We should seek to address the problem, in my opinion, by encouraging adoption of a system that sends applicants without criminal records through an automated system that green lights them without the months and months of bottle-necked delay brought upon by a dozen or so human bar C+F investigators. Freeing up the C+F investigators to focus on only those candidates (like us) with justice-involved pasts would enable them to pass everyone through (both the spotless applicants and the blemished applicants) in a much more efficient and orderly fashion.

I sympathize with anyone who is subjected to this experience and I wish you the best.

can you plug your lawyer?

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Re: California Bar Moral Character Application

Post by germlegal » Thu May 26, 2022 5:28 pm

nixy wrote:
Mon Jun 03, 2019 9:01 am
InterAlia1961 wrote:If you want to know what happens to people who have to update their application more than once, Google Zachary Coughlin + California State Bar. The hearing judge said it showed a lack of candor, inexcusable negligence, and lack of respect for the process.
This guy had a LOT of C+F problems that weren't just about updating his application more than once.
Coughlin was in the news recently: https://calcoastnews.com/2021/10/attorn ... in-prison/

nixy

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Re: California Bar Moral Character Application

Post by nixy » Thu May 26, 2022 5:39 pm

germlegal wrote:
Thu May 26, 2022 5:28 pm
nixy wrote:
Mon Jun 03, 2019 9:01 am
InterAlia1961 wrote:If you want to know what happens to people who have to update their application more than once, Google Zachary Coughlin + California State Bar. The hearing judge said it showed a lack of candor, inexcusable negligence, and lack of respect for the process.
This guy had a LOT of C+F problems that weren't just about updating his application more than once.
Coughlin was in the news recently: https://calcoastnews.com/2021/10/attorn ... in-prison/
YIKES

Anonymous User
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Re: California Bar Moral Character Application

Post by Anonymous User » Tue Jun 07, 2022 5:51 pm

Hi everyone, I have been following this thread for a while now and are in the process of preparing my CA moral character application. Three questions:

1. For a civil litigation I was involved (accidentally forgot to pay a small amount of old credit card debt but promptly paid right after the case started and got dismissed from the case shortly afterwards), do I have to attach the entire court document? Or shall I provide a brief summary of the situation and wait until the analyst follows up to provide the court document?

2. For some prior employment for which I couldn't find my old supervisors anymore, I'm planning to attach employment verification letters from the employers. Again, shall I proactively do this now? Or wait until they ask? Where can I upload these letters?

3. Is there anyone who could kindly share some latest timeline? Has there been any improvements on efficiency over the last couple of years?

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germlegal

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Re: California Bar Moral Character Application

Post by germlegal » Wed Jun 08, 2022 1:59 pm

1. I suggest uploading all relevant documents you have to your Applicant Portal (after submitting your application) or with your initial MC application. This may save your Investigator the trouble/work of requesting the documents from you.

2. You can always upload documents and provide updates in your Application Portal after you submit your application.

3. 4-18 months, just a rough estimate.
Anonymous User wrote:
Tue Jun 07, 2022 5:51 pm
Hi everyone, I have been following this thread for a while now and are in the process of preparing my CA moral character application. Three questions:

1. For a civil litigation I was involved (accidentally forgot to pay a small amount of old credit card debt but promptly paid right after the case started and got dismissed from the case shortly afterwards), do I have to attach the entire court document? Or shall I provide a brief summary of the situation and wait until the analyst follows up to provide the court document?

2. For some prior employment for which I couldn't find my old supervisors anymore, I'm planning to attach employment verification letters from the employers. Again, shall I proactively do this now? Or wait until they ask? Where can I upload these letters?

3. Is there anyone who could kindly share some latest timeline? Has there been any improvements on efficiency over the last couple of years?

Anonymous User
Posts: 428111
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: California Bar Moral Character Application

Post by Anonymous User » Wed Jun 08, 2022 4:22 pm

germlegal wrote:
Wed Jun 08, 2022 1:59 pm
1. I suggest uploading all relevant documents you have to your Applicant Portal (after submitting your application) or with your initial MC application. This may save your Investigator the trouble/work of requesting the documents from you.

2. You can always upload documents and provide updates in your Application Portal after you submit your application.

3. 4-18 months, just a rough estimate.
Anonymous User wrote:
Tue Jun 07, 2022 5:51 pm
Hi everyone, I have been following this thread for a while now and are in the process of preparing my CA moral character application. Three questions:

1. For a civil litigation I was involved (accidentally forgot to pay a small amount of old credit card debt but promptly paid right after the case started and got dismissed from the case shortly afterwards), do I have to attach the entire court document? Or shall I provide a brief summary of the situation and wait until the analyst follows up to provide the court document?

2. For some prior employment for which I couldn't find my old supervisors anymore, I'm planning to attach employment verification letters from the employers. Again, shall I proactively do this now? Or wait until they ask? Where can I upload these letters?

3. Is there anyone who could kindly share some latest timeline? Has there been any improvements on efficiency over the last couple of years?
Thank you for your advice! I have seen somewhere in this thread that amending or submitting more information after the application was submitted will be perceived as "negative." That's what triggered the concern.

Also just curious, does the bar get a copy of your resume at every employer as well? Or do they just reach out to verify title, date of employment, if you have done anything wrong, etc?

germlegal

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Re: California Bar Moral Character Application

Post by germlegal » Wed Jun 08, 2022 9:26 pm

You want your application to be as complete and honest as possible. If you make an omission or misstatement, acknowledge it (own it) and make the amendment, thoroughly. If you plan to provide additional information in the future, just say so in your application. Or if you are in the process of trying to get more information/documentation, just say so. They want to know that you are being honest and not intentionally concealing information.

As to 2nd question, I'm uncertain if every employer is contacted as a matter of course for every applicant. If they want your resume from a particular employer, I'm confident they can obtain it (either from you or your former employer).
Anonymous User wrote:
Wed Jun 08, 2022 4:22 pm
Thank you for your advice! I have seen somewhere in this thread that amending or submitting more information after the application was submitted will be perceived as "negative." That's what triggered the concern.

Also just curious, does the bar get a copy of your resume at every employer as well? Or do they just reach out to verify title, date of employment, if you have done anything wrong, etc?

Anonymous User
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Re: California Bar Moral Character Application

Post by Anonymous User » Thu Jun 09, 2022 5:40 pm

Does anyone have the direct phone number to speak to the moral character "person of the day?" I remember I saw it somewhere before but couldn't find it anymore.

I also remember I saw an email address where I can write to the analyst/investigator, but also couldn't find it. :roll:

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Anonymous User
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Re: California Bar Moral Character Application

Post by Anonymous User » Sat Jun 25, 2022 2:57 am

Submitted my CA Moral Character Application today. Now the waiting game started…. Who else is in the same boat and submitted recently? Fingers crossed for all of us. 🙏

Pema

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Re: California Bar Moral Character Application

Post by Pema » Fri Jul 29, 2022 7:48 pm

After you pass MC how long until you receive an email/docusign to register and take oath? Thanks.

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Re: California Bar Moral Character Application

Post by Anonymous User » Tue Aug 02, 2022 12:27 pm

Pema wrote:
Fri Jul 29, 2022 7:48 pm
After you pass MC how long until you receive an email/docusign to register and take oath? Thanks.
I've been waiting for two weeks. My status says "on motion pending signed supreme court order."

How long have you been waiting?

Angel66

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Re: California Bar Moral Character Application

Post by Angel66 » Tue Aug 16, 2022 8:38 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Tue Aug 02, 2022 12:27 pm
Pema wrote:
Fri Jul 29, 2022 7:48 pm
After you pass MC how long until you receive an email/docusign to register and take oath? Thanks.
I've been waiting for two weeks. My status says "on motion pending signed supreme court order."

How long have you been waiting?
How long did it take between when you received the notice saying your MC was cleared and when your status was changed to "on motion" in the system?

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CalGirl2021

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Re: California Bar Moral Character Application

Post by CalGirl2021 » Thu Sep 01, 2022 12:38 pm

Angel66 wrote:
Tue Aug 16, 2022 8:38 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Tue Aug 02, 2022 12:27 pm
Pema wrote:
Fri Jul 29, 2022 7:48 pm
After you pass MC how long until you receive an email/docusign to register and take oath? Thanks.
I've been waiting for two weeks. My status says "on motion pending signed supreme court order."

How long have you been waiting?
How long did it take between when you received the notice saying your MC was cleared and when your status was changed to "on motion" in the system?
Three weeks.

Anonymous User
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Re: California Bar Moral Character Application

Post by Anonymous User » Tue Sep 06, 2022 8:16 pm

CalGirl2021 wrote:
Thu Sep 01, 2022 12:38 pm
Angel66 wrote:
Tue Aug 16, 2022 8:38 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Tue Aug 02, 2022 12:27 pm
Pema wrote:
Fri Jul 29, 2022 7:48 pm
After you pass MC how long until you receive an email/docusign to register and take oath? Thanks.
I've been waiting for two weeks. My status says "on motion pending signed supreme court order."

How long have you been waiting?
How long did it take between when you received the notice saying your MC was cleared and when your status was changed to "on motion" in the system?
Three weeks.
Is it 3 weeks from MC clearance to motion granted? Or 3 weeks from MC clearance to status changed to "on motion?"

CalGirl2021

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Re: California Bar Moral Character Application

Post by CalGirl2021 » Wed Sep 14, 2022 4:28 pm

I was notified that I had received a positive moral character determination on July 10th. My name went on motion within days. It took three weeks to get the signed order. I was sworn in the next day.

The wait is difficult when you know you're close to the finish line. Hang in there.

CalGirl2021

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Re: California Bar Moral Character Application

Post by CalGirl2021 » Mon Oct 31, 2022 8:39 pm

I was recently asked what it costs to hire a California moral character attorney. I paid mine $2,500 to help prepare the application and represent me through the informal conference. Best money I ever spent.

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CalGirl2021

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Re: California Bar Moral Character Application

Post by CalGirl2021 » Wed Dec 07, 2022 10:17 am

Please remove if not allowed.

This lawyer does free moral character application conference calls. https://californiacounselorcook.com/

Here's what she talks about:

*Section 6060 of the Cal. Business and Professions Code.

*Applicant’s burden to show they are of good moral character.

*Form 1: Civil Litigation. We will discuss how this could be an issue, reviewing the case of Daniel Delacruz, Sr. and his actions against the State Bar.

*Form 2: Criminal Convictions. We will also discuss Mr. Delacruz's issues here. As well as those of Zachary Coughlin, who on top of other bizarre behavior, uploaded his entire moral character file to a document sharing site, including his records through the appeal, which he lost.

*Addiction/Substance Abuse issues that raise concerns for the Committee.

*Professional Misconduct that could bar admission. We will discuss the unfortunate case of Stephen Glass to understand the issues that the bar looks for. (In re Glass, 2014.)

*Academic Misconduct/Omissions on law school application.

*The Noerr-Pennington Doctrine and how it applies to Applicants to the State Bar.

*The Moral Character Determination process, including the current guidelines used by the Committee.

*The informal conference.

She said it would last about an hour, but the call I was on was almost an hour and a half. No sales pitch or anything.



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