California Bar Moral Character Application Forum

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Sobriquet44

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Re: California Bar Moral Character Application

Post by Sobriquet44 » Fri May 15, 2020 12:02 pm

For me,

I sent my oath card on April 30th and I am yet to receive a bar number. I called on Tuesday and they said it usually takes about 3 weeks and that they are going a little slower due to the crisis but to check online in a week or so.
Billy Batts wrote:
Thu May 14, 2020 7:28 pm
jgr992 wrote:
Wed Apr 08, 2020 2:08 pm
Sobriquet44 wrote:Thanks!
jgr992 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:How is ever yone who has gotten a positive determination going about getting admitted right now with courts closed? What's the best way to go and do that? Any possible way we can just do it remotely and mail it in without going in person? Hope we don't just have to wait till the statewide lockdown is over........Can be hard to apply to jobs without actually being admitted and having a bar number.
A notary public is your best bet - I was in and out in about 15 minutes, oath completed.
Additionally, I sent my oath card in on Friday, and received my bar number the following wednesday, so the Bar is still processing oath cards.
Did they let you know when you got your bar number, or did you have to keep searching your name online?

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Re: California Bar Moral Character Application

Post by Anonymous User » Mon May 18, 2020 2:38 pm

Does anyone have more April/May data on oath cards being sent out? I'd be very grateful to have some point of reference for how much things have slowed down on that front.

For those interested, here's some recent approval data:

Application Submitted: 11/10/2019
Request for follow-up materials: 1/10/2020
Filed Status: 2/9/2020
Approved: 5/5/2020

I passed the July 2019 exam. I called to follow up multiple times during the process (and found out who my analyst was along the way, which is why you don't see an "assigned to investigator" in my timeline) and was told each time there would be no priority given to those who have passed the bar. After the application went to "filed," I tried to be respectful of the "don't call us for 90-days" thing so I held off on calling for a while.

When I called in May, it became clear my application had just been sitting there waiting for a final skim and a press of the button to "approve." They said "Oh I see you passed the bar, sorry we haven't approved you yet!" (which had been true all the other times I called as well...) and approved me an hour after the call.

The moral of the story: I wouldn't wait the full 90-days as some people have suggested. I would call every other week or so. I framed my calls as "I understand the minimum time hasn't elapsed but I want to ask if you could just take a look at my application and see if there are any items you are waiting on (e.g., from school, from past employers). If so, I can help take care of that now to speed things up when time comes for review of my file." One time, there was actually something I was able to help with. The other times the answer was "no, there's nothing but here's the timeline/next steps."

nthp

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Re: California Bar Moral Character Application

Post by nthp » Fri May 22, 2020 12:33 am

I sent in my C&F in mid-April. I was wondering if it would take as long for me to go through C&F because I’m an attorney applicant and had already been scrutinized by another state. So I called the SF up in Mid May and found out I already had an investigator. My investigator told me if I didn’t hear back in a week to give him a call. In fact they did contact me a week later. Anyway, missing an item from my file, but it’s pretty straightforward so am expecting another response and perhaps an actual decision within the next week or two. Right now the status is internal review.

I hope this information is helpful. I think if you have a pretty straightforward case you might want to call up C&F and tell them so. They probably like to get the easy files out of the way first.

Also, if it helps out even further, my investigator asked me if I had a job contingent on the Bar and C&F. That may or may not have been a prioritization question.

marls

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Re: California Bar Moral Character Application

Post by marls » Tue May 26, 2020 4:57 pm

Hi Everyone,

Long time lurker, first-time commenter. This forum helped me so much throughout the entire process from LSAT to now, so I wanted to comment on my experience in the hopes that it can provide someone else with any stress relief.

I passed the bar first time July 2019. Due to family issues that came up during bar prep and after, I did not submit my C+F application until late October. I feel like my application did go a little faster because once I got the "Notice of Investigator" email, the State bar was already on notice that I had passed the bar.

Submitted Application: 10/29/2019
Received Email Notice that Application is filed: 12/5/2019
Introduction to Investigator Email: 3/9/2020
I emailed and posted to state bar feed a status update request: 3/24/2020
Received a Request for more Information: 4/9/2020
Submitted Response to Request for More Information: 5/19/2020
Received Positive Determination: 5/26/2020

As for the Request for more information, they had 2 questions. I anticipated the first question, the second not so much. The first question asked about the prior debt I had. In my response, I reached out and set up a payment plan with everyone. I submitted proof of contact with the debtors as part of my response. The second question asked why I was fired from a job during my freshman year of college. I got fired because I was a dumb drunk 19-year-old freshman that was late all the time and had no business being a researcher's assistant at the time lol. My response reflected that.

Now, I am waiting on my oath card!

pacificbrit

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Re: California Bar Moral Character Application

Post by pacificbrit » Wed May 27, 2020 9:06 pm

So frustrating - the Bar is asking for a certified driving record from the UK (I lived there over ten years ago), however the UK agency (DVLA) is minimally staffed due to COVID and is outright not processing any paper applications.

I can provide a verification code/portal to allow them to directly access my records - but apparently that's not good enough because they'd rather have a scanned PDF of a paper copy. *facepalm*

Infuriating!

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Thomas

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Re: California Bar Moral Character Application

Post by Thomas » Sat Jun 06, 2020 3:11 pm

Long time lurker and likely my only post, but just to provide another data point.

Application Submitted: 12/9/19
Completion Notice: 1/26/20
Introduction to Investigator: 6/1/20
Positive Determination: 6/6/20

It took exactly 180 days.

tsb402

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Re: California Bar Moral Character Application

Post by tsb402 » Mon Jun 08, 2020 1:19 pm

Sobriquet44 wrote:
Fri May 15, 2020 12:02 pm
For me,

I sent my oath card on April 30th and I am yet to receive a bar number. I called on Tuesday and they said it usually takes about 3 weeks and that they are going a little slower due to the crisis but to check online in a week or so.


Would you mind sharing if you have your number now (and how long that took)? Anyone else have any recent-ish data on how long it's taking? Thanks in advance.

pacificbrit

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Re: California Bar Moral Character Application

Post by pacificbrit » Tue Jun 23, 2020 5:23 pm

As an update to my earlier post, my request to use a notarized electronic copy of my DL was eventually approved and I got a notice of complete application shortly afterwards - all it took was weekly emails/voicemails for 3 months to get things moving!

cls1650

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Re: California Bar Moral Character Application

Post by cls1650 » Tue Jun 23, 2020 6:14 pm

Does anyone know what "pending internal review" means?

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Re: California Bar Moral Character Application

Post by Anonymous User » Tue Jun 23, 2020 8:01 pm

cls1650 wrote:
Tue Jun 23, 2020 6:14 pm
Does anyone know what "pending internal review" means?
It's nothing bad. It's one of three or four different statuses the application cycles through.

cls1650

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Re: California Bar Moral Character Application

Post by cls1650 » Tue Jun 23, 2020 11:03 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Tue Jun 23, 2020 8:01 pm
cls1650 wrote:
Tue Jun 23, 2020 6:14 pm
Does anyone know what "pending internal review" means?
It's nothing bad. It's one of three or four different statuses the application cycles through.
Do you happen to know where in the cycle I might be? Or where there might be more information about the cycle?

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Re: California Bar Moral Character Application

Post by Anonymous User » Wed Jun 24, 2020 8:40 am

cls1650 wrote:
Tue Jun 23, 2020 11:03 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Tue Jun 23, 2020 8:01 pm
cls1650 wrote:
Tue Jun 23, 2020 6:14 pm
Does anyone know what "pending internal review" means?
It's nothing bad. It's one of three or four different statuses the application cycles through.
Do you happen to know where in the cycle I might be? Or where there might be more information about the cycle?
As memory serves, the application goes to "pending internal review" and then to "assigned to investigator" or "assigned to analyst" before the final decision is made. When it goes to the "assigned" status, you should receive an email that identifies the investigator/analyst.

treetops_rising

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Re: California Bar Moral Character Application

Post by treetops_rising » Sun Jul 05, 2020 7:04 pm

Does anyone know how to update employment history on the Character & Fitness App? Is placing the update in the "feed" enough or should I make a request? Something else?

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Re: California Bar Moral Character Application

Post by Anonymous User » Tue Jul 07, 2020 12:55 pm

Hi everyone - long time lurker, first time poster. I am posting to give a timeline for my application process:

September 12, 2019: Application Submitted
October 1, 2019: Submitted fingerprints
October 10, 2019: Had an issue with a link for one recommender, resolved same day
December 16, 2019: Application Complete

February 25, 2020: I realized I forgot to include a drinking incident in college and updated the bar.
March 9, 2020: Updated the bar again regarding high school incidents I forgot to disclose as well as information regarding a past employer.
May 5, 2020: I started getting anxious and called, turns out my application got put in the "slow" pile after I submitted the update in February.

June 8, 2020: Intro to Investigator

June 26, 2020: Email from investigator asking about the college incident, specifically if I had informed the law school about the incident at the time of application. I did not, but fortunately I had reached out to my school March 3rd asking for them to update my application to reflect the incident. They did and sent me a letter to confirm. I sent that letter to the investigator and she subsequently approved me.

June 26, 2020: Approved.

Hang in there everyone!! I was super super stressed about missing little things and getting denied. If you do realize you forgot something that you should have include, do not be scared to do it. You will be much better off if you bring it up ahead of time.

jcallo

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Re: California Bar Moral Character Application

Post by jcallo » Wed Jul 15, 2020 6:04 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Mon May 18, 2020 2:38 pm
Does anyone have more April/May data on oath cards being sent out? I'd be very grateful to have some point of reference for how much things have slowed down on that front.

For those interested, here's some recent approval data:

Application Submitted: 11/10/2019
Request for follow-up materials: 1/10/2020
Filed Status: 2/9/2020
Approved: 5/5/2020

I passed the July 2019 exam. I called to follow up multiple times during the process (and found out who my analyst was along the way, which is why you don't see an "assigned to investigator" in my timeline) and was told each time there would be no priority given to those who have passed the bar. After the application went to "filed," I tried to be respectful of the "don't call us for 90-days" thing so I held off on calling for a while.

When I called in May, it became clear my application had just been sitting there waiting for a final skim and a press of the button to "approve." They said "Oh I see you passed the bar, sorry we haven't approved you yet!" (which had been true all the other times I called as well...) and approved me an hour after the call.

The moral of the story: I wouldn't wait the full 90-days as some people have suggested. I would call every other week or so. I framed my calls as "I understand the minimum time hasn't elapsed but I want to ask if you could just take a look at my application and see if there are any items you are waiting on (e.g., from school, from past employers). If so, I can help take care of that now to speed things up when time comes for review of my file." One time, there was actually something I was able to help with. The other times the answer was "no, there's nothing but here's the timeline/next steps."
Hey, thanks for sharing. Did you speak with your analyst every time you called in and asked if there are any items they are waiting for so you can help speed things up? If so, how many times did you speak with them? And how was their tone? Did they ever seem potentially annoyed? Thanks a bunch!

jcallo

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Re: California Bar Moral Character Application

Post by jcallo » Wed Jul 15, 2020 6:51 pm

FinallyPassedTheBar wrote:
Fri Jun 22, 2018 6:38 pm
I just got my written notice that I passed the moral character determination application. :)

Still 3 to 4 weeks before I get my admission packet though :(

So it took a bit over 6 months for the bar to finalize it in my situation. And my background was not spotless (two misdemeanors).
NICE! I have a question on the misdemeanors. How did you navigate through that negativity? Just an addendum, or character declarations, other documents? Can you please elaborate on them, what kinds? Thanks!

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TheTaylor

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Re: California Bar Moral Character Application

Post by TheTaylor » Sat Jul 18, 2020 10:39 pm

TheTaylor wrote:
Thu Feb 06, 2020 7:46 pm
For anyone who has recently submitted. This is how my timeline has looked so far.

Submitted application on 12/27/2019.
Scanned and posted LiveScan and signed Acknowledgment on 1/2/2020.
Received filed status email on 2/3/2020.

This seems to be a lot quicker than what a lot of people were experiencing (e.g., 4-5 months between submission and filed status). Hoping that means things are starting to move a bit quicker for everyone. I guess it's also possible a lot of people my year haven't submitted the app yet, so there just aren't a whole lot of new apps to process yet. Most of my classmates seemed to be procrastinating on this, so it's probably the latter.
Received my approval email on 7/16/2020. Never got an investigator email, but did contact him once back in May after 90 days had gone by.

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cls1650

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Re: California Bar Moral Character Application

Post by cls1650 » Tue Jul 21, 2020 8:00 pm

TheTaylor wrote:
Sat Jul 18, 2020 10:39 pm
TheTaylor wrote:
Thu Feb 06, 2020 7:46 pm
For anyone who has recently submitted. This is how my timeline has looked so far.

Submitted application on 12/27/2019.
Scanned and posted LiveScan and signed Acknowledgment on 1/2/2020.
Received filed status email on 2/3/2020.

This seems to be a lot quicker than what a lot of people were experiencing (e.g., 4-5 months between submission and filed status). Hoping that means things are starting to move a bit quicker for everyone. I guess it's also possible a lot of people my year haven't submitted the app yet, so there just aren't a whole lot of new apps to process yet. Most of my classmates seemed to be procrastinating on this, so it's probably the latter.
Received my approval email on 7/16/2020. Never got an investigator email, but did contact him once back in May after 90 days had gone by.
Can you explain what "filed status" means? If mine says pending internal review is it filed? Thanks.

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TheTaylor

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Re: California Bar Moral Character Application

Post by TheTaylor » Thu Jul 23, 2020 12:36 pm

cls1650 wrote:
Tue Jul 21, 2020 8:00 pm
TheTaylor wrote:
Sat Jul 18, 2020 10:39 pm
TheTaylor wrote:
Thu Feb 06, 2020 7:46 pm
For anyone who has recently submitted. This is how my timeline has looked so far.

Submitted application on 12/27/2019.
Scanned and posted LiveScan and signed Acknowledgment on 1/2/2020.
Received filed status email on 2/3/2020.

This seems to be a lot quicker than what a lot of people were experiencing (e.g., 4-5 months between submission and filed status). Hoping that means things are starting to move a bit quicker for everyone. I guess it's also possible a lot of people my year haven't submitted the app yet, so there just aren't a whole lot of new apps to process yet. Most of my classmates seemed to be procrastinating on this, so it's probably the latter.
Received my approval email on 7/16/2020. Never got an investigator email, but did contact him once back in May after 90 days had gone by.
Can you explain what "filed status" means? If mine says pending internal review is it filed? Thanks.
I think that is what it says just before "pending internal review." I forgot the date that it said "pending internal review," but it was soon after it was deemed "filed."

cls1650

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Re: California Bar Moral Character Application

Post by cls1650 » Mon Aug 03, 2020 8:57 pm

Is there a difference between "assigned to investigator" and "assigned to analyst"? Thanks

pacificbrit

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Re: California Bar Moral Character Application

Post by pacificbrit » Tue Aug 18, 2020 5:41 pm

Update:
Filed: Feb 22
Completed/Filed: June 22
Approved: Aug 17

Couple things - my completion got held up because I needed to get a waiver for the certified copy of a driving license from a foreign jurisdiction right in the middle of COVID shutdowns. I never received an introduction to investigator/analyst email, or assigned to investigator/analyst status, went from Pending Internal Review directly to approval. However it does appear they work on the applications even while items are pending.

Based on this thread I wrote around the end of July to ask if there was anything else they needed, I got a reply about 2 weeks after saying no further action needed, then my approval a few days after that.

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CAbar

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Re: Out of State Driver's License

Post by CAbar » Mon Aug 24, 2020 5:42 pm

Hello all:

I am an out of state applicant. I received an email from the bar asking to upload true and certified copy of the Driver's license. I had previously uploaded a scanned copy DL to the portal. Are they looking for notarized copy, or will a self attested photocopy be be suffice? I tried calling the CA bar, but couldn't get to speak to them.

Any out of state applicants here? Did you upload a notarized copy?

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Prudent_Jurist

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Re: California Bar Moral Character Application

Post by Prudent_Jurist » Mon Mar 08, 2021 8:14 pm

Hey all! I submitted my C&F application today. Graduating early in December and taking the February 2022 CA bar.

Just wanted to solicit the hivemind. One of my personal references said that when they submitted the questionnaire, it came up with a text box stating, "You have already responded or the questionnaire has expired." When they went back to the questionnaire link, the same text box came up.

I'm assuming all is copacetic, but I want to be sure. If I want to check and see if it went through, do I email CA bar admissions? As far as I can tell, there isn't a means to see whether a questionnaire was submitted via the applicant portal.

I know the process is a long one in general and there's plenty of time, but I'd like to drive it along as quickly as possible now before things get down to the wire. Thanks!

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Re: California Bar Moral Character Application

Post by davidsimani » Tue Apr 06, 2021 6:49 pm

AspiringLawyer8818 wrote:
Sun Mar 17, 2019 6:54 pm
Hi everyone,

I am currently going through the character and fitness process and was hoping to get some advice/feedback from those that were in a similar position.

To summarize, I have a series of alcohol-related incidents in my past. Specifically, I have been charged with 4 drinking-related misdemeanors, convicted of two. I was also suspended from a university for one year as a result of a number of drinking incidents that occurred in the dorms.

The most recent of these incidents occurred 6.5 years ago. Since that time I worked for three years in a prestigious lobbying/consulting firm and have received both my JD as well as an MBA. I attribute my past transgressions to being a stereotypical "partying" college student. None of my incidents involved violence, lying, etc., simply public intoxication and similar charges.

As expected, I have received the follow-up letter requesting more information from the State Bar. I have since hired an attorney who has asked me to do the following (non-exhaustive):

- Get screened for alcohol dependence
- Enter LAP and demonstrate sobriety for roughly the next year (including marijuana - which I have never had any incident with)
- Do 20 hours of community service a week
- Retrieve as many letters of rec as possible

The whole process has sent me into a spiral of depression. I understand the purpose of the process, but feel that it has actually set me back in my own development and recovery. Ultimately, I no longer even want to be an attorney and feel that the whole process puts applicants with a past at a serious disadvantage as compared to their peers. Rather than be able to continue to represent that I have changed and progress with my career, I feel that I will forever be behind in my practice of law.

Does anyone feel the same as I do or have any words of encouragement? I frequently find myself infuriated by how arbitrary the whole process is. Why is drinking more serious than other problems the committee does not screen for (e.g., gambling addictions, domestic violence, etc.)? I have also known people with multiple DUIs who have gotten through no problem. This seriously confuses me because a DUI involves a conscious decision to put the lives of others at risk. Under this reasoning, I would have been better-suited to hop in a car and drive home after drinking, rather than drunkenly walk in public where I got cited for my misdemeanors.

THIS WHOLE PROCESS MAKES NO SENSE TO ME. It seems completely arbitrary and, in my opinion, perpetuates the problems the bar is looking to solve. Can anyone relate or give me any advice? Thanks!
Hey, I am currently in a similar situation. Have you made any progress with the CA Bar and do you have any advice you can share about the process? Thanks in Advance!

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Re: California Bar Moral Character Application

Post by Anonymous User » Sat May 15, 2021 4:32 pm

I've been previously denied admission because of an adverse moral character determination involving two misdemeanor convictions. I've been through the appeal process as well. It was horrible. If you're denied and you appeal, the bar opens up what amounts to a criminal investigation. They contact every employer, neighbor, and associate you've ever had. They contact law enforcment and make an open records request regarding any activity you have ever been involved in, whether you were the caller, the suspect, or the victim. Whatever you do, do not navigate this without an attorney. I tried. I messed it up to the point that I'll likely never be admitted. Hire an attorney if you have criminal convictions.

Seriously? What are you waiting for?

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