California Bar Moral Character Application Forum

[Anonymous User]

Hi Friends,

I have a bit of a unique situation I wanted to run by you all before I call Admissions. I'm a lawyer - admitted in New York and Ontario (Canada). I sat for and passed the California bar February 2015. All of the requirements have been fulfilled - excepting the Moral Character Determination. I submitted my Moral Character Application in August of this year. The general reasons for the delay in submitting my moral character application are a combination of financial difficulty and family tragedy. The issue I'm looking for guidance on is that I need to be admitted to the bar within 5-years of passing the bar, which will be this coming February 2020. I don't plan on practicing in California (I live and practice in Canada), but all of the hard work, etc. will have been for nothing. I am hoping to see if Admissions will be able to make a determination before the deadline, or in the alternative, see if they will extend this until my application has been determined. Has anyone experienced this general situation? Advice is welcome!

There was someone who had a related issue and he/she said that they had been advised that it was rare to get a timeline extension on the five years.

In his case though he was in the process and was likely going to be denied. I am not sure if they will be more amenable because you began the process prior to the deadline. You submitted in August so there is a chance that they could clear you before February....though for some reason I thought you'd have five years from the pass date.

Just wanted to follow up and thank you for responding. I spoke to the "Person of the Day" and hopefully my application is determined (positively) prior to the 5 years (end of this February).

I have a follow-up question for the forum: Let's say I get a positive moral character determination in time. I have completed all other requirements for admission. Will I need to receive the Oath Card and be sworn in before the 5 years? I live in Canada and it sounds like receiving this card in time will be a big issue. Also, can I be sworn in outside of California? Any further advice is much appreciated!!

[jackstraw92]

A positive data point for others who submitted around last June:

Submitted: 6/5/2019
File complete email: 11/7/2019 (application status "Pending Internal Review")
Assigned to investigator email: 1/21/2020
Positive determination email: 1/23/2020

[yespasscbx]

A positive data point for others who submitted around last June:

Submitted: 6/5/2019
File complete email: 11/7/2019 (application status "Pending Internal Review")
Assigned to investigator email: 1/21/2020
Positive determination email: 1/23/2020

Congrats!! It seems to be the first positive data point after the holiday season in this very thread.

[Anonymous User]

Hi Friends,

I have a bit of a unique situation I wanted to run by you all before I call Admissions. I'm a lawyer - admitted in New York and Ontario (Canada). I sat for and passed the California bar February 2015. All of the requirements have been fulfilled - excepting the Moral Character Determination. I submitted my Moral Character Application in August of this year. The general reasons for the delay in submitting my moral character application are a combination of financial difficulty and family tragedy. The issue I'm looking for guidance on is that I need to be admitted to the bar within 5-years of passing the bar, which will be this coming February 2020. I don't plan on practicing in California (I live and practice in Canada), but all of the hard work, etc. will have been for nothing. I am hoping to see if Admissions will be able to make a determination before the deadline, or in the alternative, see if they will extend this until my application has been determined. Has anyone experienced this general situation? Advice is welcome!

There was someone who had a related issue and he/she said that they had been advised that it was rare to get a timeline extension on the five years.

In his case though he was in the process and was likely going to be denied. I am not sure if they will be more amenable because you began the process prior to the deadline. You submitted in August so there is a chance that they could clear you before February....though for some reason I thought you'd have five years from the pass date.

Just wanted to follow up and thank you for responding. I spoke to the "Person of the Day" and hopefully my application is determined (positively) prior to the 5 years (end of this February).

I have a follow-up question for the forum: Let's say I get a positive moral character determination in time. I have completed all other requirements for admission. Will I need to receive the Oath Card and be sworn in before the 5 years? I live in Canada and it sounds like receiving this card in time will be a big issue. Also, can I be sworn in outside of California? Any further advice is much appreciated!!

Just a quick update:
Received my "Introduction to Investigator" email 01/24/2020. Hope to hear again soon.

Does anyone know if the 5-year period to be fully admitted from the date of the exam bar I passed includes receiving the "Oath Card"? Or if I'm "on motion", will that suffice?

Thanks!

[Anonymous User]

Huge congrats to all who are getting positive news. I’m still in purgatory but hoping the nightmare ends soon

Hi Friends,

I have a bit of a unique situation I wanted to run by you all before I call Admissions. I'm a lawyer - admitted in New York and Ontario (Canada). I sat for and passed the California bar February 2015. All of the requirements have been fulfilled - excepting the Moral Character Determination. I submitted my Moral Character Application in August of this year. The general reasons for the delay in submitting my moral character application are a combination of financial difficulty and family tragedy. The issue I'm looking for guidance on is that I need to be admitted to the bar within 5-years of passing the bar, which will be this coming February 2020. I don't plan on practicing in California (I live and practice in Canada), but all of the hard work, etc. will have been for nothing. I am hoping to see if Admissions will be able to make a determination before the deadline, or in the alternative, see if they will extend this until my application has been determined. Has anyone experienced this general situation? Advice is welcome!

There was someone who had a related issue and he/she said that they had been advised that it was rare to get a timeline extension on the five years.

In his case though he was in the process and was likely going to be denied. I am not sure if they will be more amenable because you began the process prior to the deadline. You submitted in August so there is a chance that they could clear you before February....though for some reason I thought you'd have five years from the pass date.

Just wanted to follow up and thank you for responding. I spoke to the "Person of the Day" and hopefully my application is determined (positively) prior to the 5 years (end of this February).

I have a follow-up question for the forum: Let's say I get a positive moral character determination in time. I have completed all other requirements for admission. Will I need to receive the Oath Card and be sworn in before the 5 years? I live in Canada and it sounds like receiving this card in time will be a big issue. Also, can I be sworn in outside of California? Any further advice is much appreciated!!

Just a quick update:
Received my "Introduction to Investigator" email 01/24/2020. Hope to hear again soon.

Does anyone know if the 5-year period to be fully admitted from the date of the exam bar I passed includes receiving the "Oath Card"? Or if I'm "on motion", will that suffice?

Thanks!

[jmoore]

A data point for those who might be waiting longer than others in this group like I was.

Submitted: 3/22/2019
File complete email: 9/5/2019 (application status "Pending Internal Review")
Assigned to investigator email: N/A. (Although I knew who my investigator was when the file was completed because I called and was like WTF - it's already been about 6 months. LOL.
Positive determination email: 1/29/2020

Not sure what took so long. Maybe because I've lived in several different places but nothing else out of the ordinary. I actually got my first parking ticket during this process and promptly paid it because I didn't want any issues. LOL.

[Anonymous User]

So you never got the assigned to investigator email? Did you call and ask who your investigator was at some point?

[jgr992]

A data point for those who might be waiting longer than others in this group like I was.

Submitted: 3/22/2019
File complete email: 9/5/2019 (application status "Pending Internal Review")
Assigned to investigator email: N/A. (Although I knew who my investigator was when the file was completed because I called and was like WTF - it's already been about 6 months. LOL.
Positive determination email: 1/29/2020

Not sure what took so long. Maybe because I've lived in several different places but nothing else out of the ordinary. I actually got my first parking ticket during this process and promptly paid it because I didn't want any issues. LOL.

So you never got the assigned to investigator email? Did you call and ask who your investigator was at some point?

[CEReds]

Not sure if you know this, but when does the 180 day period start? I thought it was once you submitted the file?

A data point for those who might be waiting longer than others in this group like I was.

Submitted: 3/22/2019
File complete email: 9/5/2019 (application status "Pending Internal Review")
Assigned to investigator email: N/A. (Although I knew who my investigator was when the file was completed because I called and was like WTF - it's already been about 6 months. LOL.
Positive determination email: 1/29/2020

Not sure what took so long. Maybe because I've lived in several different places but nothing else out of the ordinary. I actually got my first parking ticket during this process and promptly paid it because I didn't want any issues. LOL.

[jgr992]

Not sure if you know this, but when does the 180 day period start? I thought it was once you submitted the file?

A data point for those who might be waiting longer than others in this group like I was.

Submitted: 3/22/2019
File complete email: 9/5/2019 (application status "Pending Internal Review")
Assigned to investigator email: N/A. (Although I knew who my investigator was when the file was completed because I called and was like WTF - it's already been about 6 months. LOL.
Positive determination email: 1/29/2020

Not sure what took so long. Maybe because I've lived in several different places but nothing else out of the ordinary. I actually got my first parking ticket during this process and promptly paid it because I didn't want any issues. LOL.

It supposedly starts once the file is deemed "completed." Which is usually months after you submit it. But I'm not convinced that 180 day period has any basis in reality anymore...

[WhatsUP?]

A data point for those who might be waiting longer than others in this group like I was.

Submitted: 3/22/2019
File complete email: 9/5/2019 (application status "Pending Internal Review")
Assigned to investigator email: N/A. (Although I knew who my investigator was when the file was completed because I called and was like WTF - it's already been about 6 months. LOL.
Positive determination email: 1/29/2020

Not sure what took so long. Maybe because I've lived in several different places but nothing else out of the ordinary. I actually got my first parking ticket during this process and promptly paid it because I didn't want any issues. LOL.

Might I inquire as to on what date you called if you can recall and how long it was after you called that you received a positive determination? I am thinking of calling -- the last communication I received stated that they will be unable to provide any information for 90 days but it has been over 8 months!

[WhatsUP?]

A data point for those who might be waiting longer than others in this group like I was.

Submitted: 3/22/2019
File complete email: 9/5/2019 (application status "Pending Internal Review")
Assigned to investigator email: N/A. (Although I knew who my investigator was when the file was completed because I called and was like WTF - it's already been about 6 months. LOL.
Positive determination email: 1/29/2020

Not sure what took so long. Maybe because I've lived in several different places but nothing else out of the ordinary. I actually got my first parking ticket during this process and promptly paid it because I didn't want any issues. LOL.

Might I inquire as to on what date you called if you can recall and how long it was after you called that you received a positive determination? I am thinking of calling -- the last communication I received stated that they will be unable to provide any information for 90 days but it has been over 8 months!

OMG . . . everyday now is like . . . "Is it here yet? Is it here yet?" UGH . . .

[WhatsUP?]

A data point for those who might be waiting longer than others in this group like I was.

Submitted: 3/22/2019
File complete email: 9/5/2019 (application status "Pending Internal Review")
Assigned to investigator email: N/A. (Although I knew who my investigator was when the file was completed because I called and was like WTF - it's already been about 6 months. LOL.
Positive determination email: 1/29/2020

Not sure what took so long. Maybe because I've lived in several different places but nothing else out of the ordinary. I actually got my first parking ticket during this process and promptly paid it because I didn't want any issues. LOL.

Might I inquire as to on what date you called if you can recall and how long it was after you called that you received a positive determination? I am thinking of calling -- the last communication I received stated that they will be unable to provide any information for 90 days but it has been over 8 months!

OMG . . . everyday now is like . . . "Is it here yet? Is it here yet?" UGH . . .

Don't intend to be so obsessive that I am responding aimlessly to my own posts, but I am just like frustrated that is all. Thanks posters for 'listening'

[Anonymous User]

A data point for those who might be waiting longer than others in this group like I was.

Submitted: 3/22/2019
File complete email: 9/5/2019 (application status "Pending Internal Review")
Assigned to investigator email: N/A. (Although I knew who my investigator was when the file was completed because I called and was like WTF - it's already been about 6 months. LOL.
Positive determination email: 1/29/2020

Not sure what took so long. Maybe because I've lived in several different places but nothing else out of the ordinary. I actually got my first parking ticket during this process and promptly paid it because I didn't want any issues. LOL.

Might I inquire as to on what date you called if you can recall and how long it was after you called that you received a positive determination? I am thinking of calling -- the last communication I received stated that they will be unable to provide any information for 90 days but it has been over 8 months!

OMG . . . everyday now is like . . . "Is it here yet? Is it here yet?" UGH . . .

Don't intend to be so obsessive that I am responding aimlessly to my own posts, but I am just like frustrated that is all. Thanks posters for 'listening'

Lol it's okay! Totally understand--I passed July 2019 and am still stuck in limbo, so I'm constantly checking my email, this thread and my admissions account thinking the same thing: "Is it here yet? Maybe today?" Positive thoughts going out to you, friend. Hang in there.

Also, sorry, I know this may not help ease your stress, but it seems that Admissions is looking to hire another investigator, which may help explain the wait...

[WhatsUP?]

OMG . . . everyday now is like . . . "Is it here yet? Is it here yet?" UGH . . .[/quote]

Don't intend to be so obsessive that I am responding aimlessly to my own posts, but I am just like frustrated that is all. Thanks posters for 'listening'[/quote]

Lol it's okay! Totally understand--I passed July 2019 and am still stuck in limbo, so I'm constantly checking my email, this thread and my admissions account thinking the same thing: "Is it here yet? Maybe today?" Positive thoughts going out to you, friend. Hang in there.

Also, sorry, I know this may not help ease your stress, but it seems that Admissions is looking to hire another investigator, which may help explain the wait...[/quote]

@Anonymous: Thanks! I didn't think that I would be feeling so hapless and helpless over this. But, this is the only thing left as I passed the February Bar. And, I am trying to be uber patient. And, congratulations to you on passing the July 2019 Bar Exam!!!!! That is fantastic.

[jmoore]

A data point for those who might be waiting longer than others in this group like I was.

Submitted: 3/22/2019
File complete email: 9/5/2019 (application status "Pending Internal Review")
Assigned to investigator email: N/A. (Although I knew who my investigator was when the file was completed because I called and was like WTF - it's already been about 6 months. LOL.
Positive determination email: 1/29/2020

Not sure what took so long. Maybe because I've lived in several different places but nothing else out of the ordinary. I actually got my first parking ticket during this process and promptly paid it because I didn't want any issues. LOL.

So you never got the assigned to investigator email? Did you call and ask who your investigator was at some point?

No e-mail. Was told who my investigator was when I called after I received the e-mail about my file being completed.

[jmoore]

A data point for those who might be waiting longer than others in this group like I was.

Submitted: 3/22/2019
File complete email: 9/5/2019 (application status "Pending Internal Review")
Assigned to investigator email: N/A. (Although I knew who my investigator was when the file was completed because I called and was like WTF - it's already been about 6 months. LOL.
Positive determination email: 1/29/2020

Not sure what took so long. Maybe because I've lived in several different places but nothing else out of the ordinary. I actually got my first parking ticket during this process and promptly paid it because I didn't want any issues. LOL.

Might I inquire as to on what date you called if you can recall and how long it was after you called that you received a positive determination? I am thinking of calling -- the last communication I received stated that they will be unable to provide any information for 90 days but it has been over 8 months!

I called on September 5, 2019, immediately after receiving the Pending Internal Review email and thinking it was a mistake. I didn't get a response when I left a voice mail in December. Left it alone due to holidays and life happening around me and then randomly got the e-mail 1/29/2020. Now I'm waiting for the info to come in the mail so I can get sworn in. What a process. Sheesh.

If I was you, I would for sure call. A nice friendly check-in.

[TheTaylor]

For anyone who has recently submitted. This is how my timeline has looked so far.

Submitted application on 12/27/2019.
Scanned and posted LiveScan and signed Acknowledgment on 1/2/2020.
Received filed status email on 2/3/2020.

This seems to be a lot quicker than what a lot of people were experiencing (e.g., 4-5 months between submission and filed status). Hoping that means things are starting to move a bit quicker for everyone. I guess it's also possible a lot of people my year haven't submitted the app yet, so there just aren't a whole lot of new apps to process yet. Most of my classmates seemed to be procrastinating on this, so it's probably the latter.

[Caruthers]

Hi Friends,

I have a bit of a unique situation I wanted to run by you all before I call Admissions. I'm a lawyer - admitted in New York and Ontario (Canada). I sat for and passed the California bar February 2015. All of the requirements have been fulfilled - excepting the Moral Character Determination. I submitted my Moral Character Application in August of this year. The general reasons for the delay in submitting my moral character application are a combination of financial difficulty and family tragedy. The issue I'm looking for guidance on is that I need to be admitted to the bar within 5-years of passing the bar, which will be this coming February 2020. I don't plan on practicing in California (I live and practice in Canada), but all of the hard work, etc. will have been for nothing. I am hoping to see if Admissions will be able to make a determination before the deadline, or in the alternative, see if they will extend this until my application has been determined. Has anyone experienced this general situation? Advice is welcome!

There was someone who had a related issue and he/she said that they had been advised that it was rare to get a timeline extension on the five years.

In his case though he was in the process and was likely going to be denied. I am not sure if they will be more amenable because you began the process prior to the deadline. You submitted in August so there is a chance that they could clear you before February....though for some reason I thought you'd have five years from the pass date.

Just wanted to follow up and thank you for responding. I spoke to the "Person of the Day" and hopefully my application is determined (positively) prior to the 5 years (end of this February).

I have a follow-up question for the forum: Let's say I get a positive moral character determination in time. I have completed all other requirements for admission. Will I need to receive the Oath Card and be sworn in before the 5 years? I live in Canada and it sounds like receiving this card in time will be a big issue. Also, can I be sworn in outside of California? Any further advice is much appreciated!!

Just a quick update:
Received my "Introduction to Investigator" email 01/24/2020. Hope to hear again soon.

Does anyone know if the 5-year period to be fully admitted from the date of the exam bar I passed includes receiving the "Oath Card"? Or if I'm "on motion", will that suffice?

Thanks!

You must actually take the oath - not just receive the oath card - within the 5-year period.

[Anonymous User]

Hi friends! Anyone submit their application immediately following last year's July exam and gotten an investigator assignment email (or maybe even determination) yet? Here's how my timeline's been for reference:

App submitted: 8/6/19
LiveScan submitted: 8/28/19
Notice of completion/filed app ("Pending Internal Review" status): 11/26/19

I know I submitted way past the time recommended to submit (and totally take fault/blame for that), but am looking for any kind of way to gauge how the timeline's going to be--the wait's killing me. Congrats to those who've received positive determinations so far!

Thanks in advance!

[Anonymous User]

According to the State Bar, the processing of moral character applications is currently running approximately 240-260 days from initial submission (not the day on which you receive the "file complete" notification). At the 240-260 day mark, the application file will be assigned to an investigator for review (ideally approval) and/or determination of whether additional information is needed to finalize the process. To give some context, I submitted my application in mid-August 2019 and I am simply sitting in the queue to be assigned to an investigator (which likely won't happen for 2 more months). The old 180 day timeline is meaningless, and everybody should now have their eyes on a 8-9 month process from beginning to end.

Now let me welcome everybody to the wild, wild west . . .

[Anonymous User]

According to the State Bar, the processing of moral character applications is currently running approximately 240-260 days from initial submission (not the day on which you receive the "file complete" notification). At the 240-260 day mark, the application file will be assigned to an investigator for review (ideally approval) and/or determination of whether additional information is needed to finalize the process. To give some context, I submitted my application in mid-August 2019 and I am simply sitting in the queue to be assigned to an investigator (which likely won't happen for 2 more months). The old 180 day timeline is meaningless, and everybody should now have their eyes on a 8-9 month process from beginning to end.

Now let me welcome everybody to the wild, wild west . . .

Where did you get this information from in regards to the 240 - 260 days?

[Anonymous User]

According to the State Bar, the processing of moral character applications is currently running approximately 240-260 days from initial submission (not the day on which you receive the "file complete" notification). At the 240-260 day mark, the application file will be assigned to an investigator for review (ideally approval) and/or determination of whether additional information is needed to finalize the process. To give some context, I submitted my application in mid-August 2019 and I am simply sitting in the queue to be assigned to an investigator (which likely won't happen for 2 more months). The old 180 day timeline is meaningless, and everybody should now have their eyes on a 8-9 month process from beginning to end.

Now let me welcome everybody to the wild, wild west . . .

Where did you get this information from in regards to the 240 - 260 days?

Directly from the Moral Character division of the State Bar.

[Anonymous User]

According to the State Bar, the processing of moral character applications is currently running approximately 240-260 days from initial submission (not the day on which you receive the "file complete" notification). At the 240-260 day mark, the application file will be assigned to an investigator for review (ideally approval) and/or determination of whether additional information is needed to finalize the process. To give some context, I submitted my application in mid-August 2019 and I am simply sitting in the queue to be assigned to an investigator (which likely won't happen for 2 more months). The old 180 day timeline is meaningless, and everybody should now have their eyes on a 8-9 month process from beginning to end.

Now let me welcome everybody to the wild, wild west . . .

Mine was 228 days from the the initial submission of the application to the "introduction to investigator" email. Then, the "introduction to investigator email oddly and vaguely states: "Most Applications for Determination of Moral Character will be processed within a minimum of 180 days." In other words, "most" (51% or more) applications will be processed "within a minimum" of 180 days (presumably 180 days from the date of the email). The phrase "within a minimum" is difficult for me to understand. I can understand "within a maximum," but not "within a minimum."

[Anonymous User]

According to the State Bar, the processing of moral character applications is currently running approximately 240-260 days from initial submission (not the day on which you receive the "file complete" notification). At the 240-260 day mark, the application file will be assigned to an investigator for review (ideally approval) and/or determination of whether additional information is needed to finalize the process. To give some context, I submitted my application in mid-August 2019 and I am simply sitting in the queue to be assigned to an investigator (which likely won't happen for 2 more months). The old 180 day timeline is meaningless, and everybody should now have their eyes on a 8-9 month process from beginning to end.

Now let me welcome everybody to the wild, wild west . . .

Mine was 228 days from the the initial submission of the application to the "introduction to investigator" email. Then, the "introduction to investigator email oddly and vaguely states: "Most Applications for Determination of Moral Character will be processed within a minimum of 180 days." In other words, "most" (51% or more) applications will be processed "within a minimum" of 180 days (presumably 180 days from the date of the email). The phrase "within a minimum" is difficult for me to understand. I can understand "within a maximum," but not "within a minimum."

Do you mind me asking when you initially submitted your application? Also, knowing that you received the intro to your investigator email 228 days after that, have you received a determination already? If so, how long after receiving the intro to investigator email did you get your determination?