Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2016 Forum

[Fivedham]

I got a graded essay back on a Saturday once.

[spyke123]

This is insane. Put off Milestone #2 until today because I figured it'd give me some time to actually learn the subjects. Scored a 44%....meanwhile on Adaptibar scoring in the 60% range. Getting really frustrated with Themis' roulette-like MBE system. Constantly makes me feel like I'm a mouse on a wheel. Study, bomb a set, panic, repeat.

I'm telling you all! THEMIS QUESTIONS ARE MUCH DIFFICULT.

Please let this be true

The only thing that is making me think they possibly are is that the Milestone questions seem to be real MBE questions used in the same MBE, so the difficulty is gauged to be appropriate with the actual test. Whereas I think the PQ sets are drawn individually, and they vary in difficulty.

So you mean score on the milestone questions is an accurate representation of what you will get on the real thing = themis questions arent harder...

[Fivedham]

So you mean score on the milestone questions is an accurate representation of what you will get on the real thing = themis questions arent harder...

I think so, but I have nothing to back that up aside from my personal impression of the milestones and the PQs.

[NaeDeen]

Sure hope they don't care about the PQs after each chapter, cause I don't have time to try and answer them by actually thinking. So I'm selecting all D's and moving on to the next video. No time for PQ's when I can just redo them on the designated AQ days.

I'm the opposite - I do them after each chapter and pick random guesses for the assessment. By the time I do the assessment, I can't stand the "which is true" questions - I don't want to put all the false choices in my brain and then not see the answers till I've answered all 15 or so, it throws me off!

I liked MD corporations lady!

Corporations lady was bad ass--she knows her stuff! The one issue I had was the fact that she added a lot of extra stuff that wasn't on the handout so it threw me off. I agree about the T/F AQs. Themis scheduled like 6 AQ sessions for me today....not. gonna. happen. I'm on Comm Paper now and it's not as bad. Agency was a breeze...partnerships also. I guess because I've done a little bit of work in the area.

[NaeDeen]

No matter the difficulty, K is a pain. A serious one from day one.
Evidence is another issue that I'll have to work on. The character evidence stuff makes me want to cry. And that's a problem because it's heavily tested.

[Easy-E]

Need some clarification re ordering a new trial. Handout says its a question of law, and subject to de novo review. Then it says "most grounds for new trial are within sound discretion of trial court - reviewed on appeal only for abuse of discretion". So what's the standard for reviewing an order for a new trial? De novo or abuse of discretion?

[NaeDeen]

Need some clarification re ordering a new trial. Handout says its a question of law, and subject to de novo review. Then it says "most grounds for new trial are within sound discretion of trial court - reviewed on appeal only for abuse of discretion". So what's the standard for reviewing an order for a new trial? De novo or abuse of discretion?

Abuse of Discretion from what I know...double check. If you think about it, the order is a pre-req to a new trial so if there is an abuse, a new trial is ordered. At least that's how I understand it.

[TLSModBot]

Need some clarification re ordering a new trial. Handout says its a question of law, and subject to de novo review. Then it says "most grounds for new trial are within sound discretion of trial court - reviewed on appeal only for abuse of discretion". So what's the standard for reviewing an order for a new trial? De novo or abuse of discretion?

Abuse of Discretion from what I know...double check. If you think about it, the order is a pre-req to a new trial so if there is an abuse, a new trial is ordered. At least that's how I understand it.

The grounds are generally fact-intensive (prejudicial conduct during the trial, new evidence, etc.), so I think it's generally Abuse of Discretion. I'm also confused about the "Question of Law" part in the course notes too, though.

[NaeDeen]

Need some clarification re ordering a new trial. Handout says its a question of law, and subject to de novo review. Then it says "most grounds for new trial are within sound discretion of trial court - reviewed on appeal only for abuse of discretion". So what's the standard for reviewing an order for a new trial? De novo or abuse of discretion?

Abuse of Discretion from what I know...double check. If you think about it, the order is a pre-req to a new trial so if there is an abuse, a new trial is ordered. At least that's how I understand it.

The grounds are generally fact-intensive (prejudicial conduct during the trial, new evidence, etc.), so I think it's generally Abuse of Discretion. I'm also confused about the "Question of Law" part in the course notes too, though.

From what I understand, on review, judges are looking at the case twofold (1) as if it had not been ruled on (question of law) (2) for a ruling on whether lower judge misapplied law and/or abused his/her discretion.

[xdeuceswild81xx]

Doing Advanced Sales today and have to say, Geis is definitely my favorite of all the instructors. Property bro was funny, Jeffries talked so slow that 2x was normal, but Geis 1.hits all the blanks 2. follows the sheet w/o jumping around and 3. has very clear examples. Definitely the GOAT instructor so far imo

[Easy-E]

Need some clarification re ordering a new trial. Handout says its a question of law, and subject to de novo review. Then it says "most grounds for new trial are within sound discretion of trial court - reviewed on appeal only for abuse of discretion". So what's the standard for reviewing an order for a new trial? De novo or abuse of discretion?

Abuse of Discretion from what I know...double check. If you think about it, the order is a pre-req to a new trial so if there is an abuse, a new trial is ordered. At least that's how I understand it.

The grounds are generally fact-intensive (prejudicial conduct during the trial, new evidence, etc.), so I think it's generally Abuse of Discretion. I'm also confused about the "Question of Law" part in the course notes too, though.

From what I understand, on review, judges are looking at the case twofold (1) as if it had not been ruled on (question of law) (2) for a ruling on whether lower judge misapplied law and/or abused his/her discretion.

This makes sense I think. Annoying that the handout doesn't state it this way at all.


Also, fuck civ pro PQs.

[ndp1234]

Doing Advanced Sales today and have to say, Geis is definitely my favorite of all the instructors. Property bro was funny, Jeffries talked so slow that 2x was normal, but Geis 1.hits all the blanks 2. follows the sheet w/o jumping around and 3. has very clear examples. Definitely the GOAT instructor so far imo

TOTALLY AGREE! I held out hope that he would unexpectedly would come back for Secured transactions or something else.

[Easy-E]

From civ pro PQs #4, motion to strike

[+] Spoiler

An employer brought suit against a former employee for damages due to breach of fiduciary duty. The complaint, which was properly filed in federal district court, alleged that the claim arose out of the former employee’s management of a competing business while he was an employee of the employer. The former employee, in his timely filed answer, admitted the employer’s allegations but alleged that the employer failed to pay the former employee commissions earned while an employee of the employer. The former employee then asserted that this allegation constituted an affirmative defense to the employer’s action. The former employee’s answer also contained a counterclaim for the unpaid commissions and unreimbursed expenses. Ten days after service of the answer, the employer responded to the counterclaim with a denial that the former employee had not been paid commissions owed. Twenty days after service of the answer, the employer moved to strike the former employee’s affirmative defense. An employer’s failure to compensate an employee does not constitute an affirmative defense to a breach of fiduciary duty action by the employer under the applicable jurisdiction’s law.

How should the court rule on the employer’s motion to strike?
A Grant the motion, because the employer denied the former employee’s allegation that he had not been paid commissions earned while an employee.
B Grant the motion, because the affirmative defense is insufficient as a matter of law.
C Deny the motion, because the employer could have filed a motion for judgment on the pleadings.
D Deny the motion, because it was not timely filed.

Answer choice B is correct. If a pleading contains an insufficient defense, a party must move to strike the defense from the pleading either before responding to the pleading or, if a responsive pleading is not permitted, within 21 days after being served with the pleading. Here, the defense is insufficient as a matter of the applicable jurisdiction’s law, so the motion to strike should be granted.

I don't get it. Shouldn't the employer have moved to strike the affirmative defense when it replied to the counterclaim? A responsive pleading is permitted for a counter-claim, so why does the 21 day rule apply?

Oh I guess when they say "response to the pleading", pleading doesn't mean the counterclaim, but just the affirmative defense? God I hate you civ pro.

[NaeDeen]

Need some clarification re ordering a new trial. Handout says its a question of law, and subject to de novo review. Then it says "most grounds for new trial are within sound discretion of trial court - reviewed on appeal only for abuse of discretion". So what's the standard for reviewing an order for a new trial? De novo or abuse of discretion?

Abuse of Discretion from what I know...double check. If you think about it, the order is a pre-req to a new trial so if there is an abuse, a new trial is ordered. At least that's how I understand it.

The grounds are generally fact-intensive (prejudicial conduct during the trial, new evidence, etc.), so I think it's generally Abuse of Discretion. I'm also confused about the "Question of Law" part in the course notes too, though.

From what I understand, on review, judges are looking at the case twofold (1) as if it had not been ruled on (question of law) (2) for a ruling on whether lower judge misapplied law and/or abused his/her discretion.

This makes sense I think. Annoying that the handout doesn't state it this way at all.


Also, fuck civ pro PQs.

Some of the handouts are not as detailed as the questions so that's where the MQs come in. I don't refer to the big outline. I just add along the way or create a flashcard to make things easier on myself. I find that flipping through pages does not help. But that's just me.

[Nebby]

I just got 70% on Mixed PQ 7. This the first mixed PQ set I've scored 70 or more on. It only took me 1000+ questions to finally get here, but I hope this means I'm finally retaining the rules. I started making flashcards with Mixed PQ 4 to write down the rule statements for the missed questions and drill them once a day, and I think it's starting to pay off. I've started noticing fact patterns testing issues I have missed before and didn't make the same mistake again, and I think the flashcards are what have helped the most.

[hogfan1991]

Have you guys gotten your grades for the Friday graded essay (MPT) yet? I'm still waiting for mine... Erin is the one who grades mine. Wondering if anyone else has heard back from her yet? Thanks!

Haven't gotten a grade yet either. My grader has consistently been early with grades before this MPT. This is the first late one. Maybe MPTs are harder to grade?

They have two business days to grade. Monday was day one, today is day two. It's not "late" until Wednesday. These people aren't paid enough to grade essays on the weekend

I'm not counting the weekends. I submitted mine early on Friday (I always do the graded essays first thing in the morning), so I always count Friday because it's a whole business day, in addition to Monday.

Also remember I'm pretty sure Themis is on Pacific time on the west coast so they may be 3 hours behind as well so getting them at 7 or 8 is actually during the afternoon there.

[Easy-E]

JFC Birdthistle for 10 lectures of Corporations kill me

Am I going to be better off just filling in the handout from the outline I dunno if I can take this dude

[Chardee_MacDennis]

JFC Birdthistle for 10 lectures of Corporations kill me

Am I going to be better off just filling in the handout from the outline I dunno if I can take this dude

Watch as his hair becomes progressively more disheveled

[Sheeit]

JFC Birdthistle for 10 lectures of Corporations kill me

Am I going to be better off just filling in the handout from the outline I dunno if I can take this dude

Watch as his hair becomes progressively more disheveled

Probably the only reason I kept clicking on to the next lecture.

[TLSModBot]

This MD Civ Pro guy is the worst lecturer to date. Speaks in monotone, mostly just reads off the outline, and does so at a rapid clip. I actually had to slow him down to 0.5x speed just so I could catch what I needed to at one point. Fuck this guy.

[Easy-E]

JFC Birdthistle for 10 lectures of Corporations kill me

Am I going to be better off just filling in the handout from the outline I dunno if I can take this dude

Watch as his hair becomes progressively more disheveled

Looks like he combed it with a chicken bone

Also, at least these lectures don't have you filling in whole sentences, which was annoying as hell

[Chardee_MacDennis]

I just got 70% on Mixed PQ 7. This the first mixed PQ set I've scored 70 or more on. It only took me 1000+ questions to finally get here, but I hope this means I'm finally retaining the rules. I started making flashcards with Mixed PQ 4 to write down the rule statements for the missed questions and drill them once a day, and I think it's starting to pay off. I've started noticing fact patterns testing issues I have missed before and didn't make the same mistake again, and I think the flashcards are what have helped the most.

I'd been neglecting the "Review X Notes . . ." assignments and had kinda plateaued, but I started reviewing the MBE topics with which I'd been struggling and hit 70/72/72 on the last three mixed sets. I think review of any kind, no matter how, is crucial at this stage. My goal is 75%.

I've also started to notice boilerplate fact patterns in many of the questions, so I know what issues to watch out for when answering.

[bsktbll28082]

They have me still watching lectures up to 7/12 (surety). I think I'm going to go through the outlines/lectures of the remaining topics on my own, not following their schedule. Hopefully will finish before 7/4 so I can review for most of July.

[Easy-E]

They have me still watching lectures up to 7/12 (surety). I think I'm going to go through the outlines/lectures of the remaining topics on my own, not following their schedule. Hopefully will finish before 7/4 so I can review for most of July.

Yeah the fact I'm still watching lectures is kinda freaking me out

[ultimolugar]

I just got 70% on Mixed PQ 7. This the first mixed PQ set I've scored 70 or more on. It only took me 1000+ questions to finally get here, but I hope this means I'm finally retaining the rules. I started making flashcards with Mixed PQ 4 to write down the rule statements for the missed questions and drill them once a day, and I think it's starting to pay off. I've started noticing fact patterns testing issues I have missed before and didn't make the same mistake again, and I think the flashcards are what have helped the most.

Congrats Nebby! I suffered through mixed set 9 (100 question set). Missed 12 in a row at a point. 60. Got 5 out of 15 on property. Oof.