Pieper Forum

[myrtlewinston]

I am re-taking the NY Bar in Feb, and possibly tacking on NJ's. If you took Pieper, I'd appreciate your opinions on the course. Thanks!

[austinmom]

I took Pieper and would recommend it without question. Here's my story:

Graduated 2007 in bottom half of top 50 law school at the time. Took Barbri and attended all lectures but didn't give it my best. I think I also took a 4 day vacation in early July. Failed NY July 2007 by 4 points. I took it on a laptop and also had major anxiety due to an essay not fully loading. Nearly lost my shit.

Retook February 2008 NY exam while working full time. Took two weeks off to study with Barbri re-taker course. Failed by a long shot.

Quit my job and signed up for Pieper's full time class for July 2008 bar. Treated class like it was my job. I only missed one day (I was buying/selling apartments and moving) and completed all of the recommended coursework. I think I also did the PMBR 3 day MBE class. Took the bar and walked out of the essay day feeling great. The mnemonics that I learned were so helpful for the essay day. I got a 140.3 on the MBE, which was two points (I think) below median for that administration.

Things I liked about Pieper course: I was forced to take notes in class. This really helped me. I had to pay attention and it was different from how I learned in law school (typing on a laptop). I couldn't just fill in the blanks (like Barbri). When Pieper said to just review notes, I just reviewed notes. I had never used mnemonics before, but I used at least 10 of them in the essay day and I really think that helped me earn points.

I also liked Pieper's essay topic predictions for NY. They were spot on for the administration I took. I ended up using several of the Pieper books as a supplement for another state's exam that following February and passed that one too.

I took several years off of work to stay home with my two young children and I'm now living in another state and studying for the Texas February exam. I am not using Pieper as they don't have a Texas course but I will continue to be loyal to them.

In Barbri's defense, it works for most people. If you are unsure of yourself and feel like you need more hand holding, more examples, more access to a person who can answer your questions, go with Pieper. I felt like the materials had more examples and the lectures were easier to listen to as I was taking notes and really absorbing the material. You will spend more of your time listening and writing, but I really felt like that is what helped me learn the most.

I only wish I had access to my essay scores so I could really see how far the class and my efforts pushed me past a 665.

Good luck!

[starryski]

I am re-taking the NY Bar in Feb, and possibly tacking on NJ's. If you took Pieper, I'd appreciate your opinions on the course. Thanks!

great for essays and MPT. not enough MBE practice in my opinion. (he has all real MBE questions in his textbooks though) he is very thorough and there was nothing on the exam he didn't touch on (although i didn't remember it all). memorize his mnemonics and you are set for the essays. it gives you a good foundation so in case you get an essay you know nothing about, you can at least write something down.

i failed but liked the course. this time around i'm not watching the videos and doing more MBE practice.

[Cscottrun]

I took two classes with Pieper at my school during my 3L year, and took bar prep with him, so I feel like I have a pretty good idea of him and his program.

He will give you all the information you need. Actually he will give you too much information. You will feel overwhelmed all the time. The way he lectures is probably different than what you are used to. He starts at the very very beginning for each topic (his class is especially good for foreign takers because he assumes you know nothing). But at the same time, it can be a burden starting at the very beginning because he has to fit so much in-in such a short amount of time. He gives an example or two and moves on. Things don't stick as easily as they do with Barbri or the other classes because he spends less time on each topic. The way he lectures is more like him reading his outline book to you, followed by an example. For each topic, he lets you know what bar exams they've showed up on so you can go back and look at the question in context.

He also is a huge fan of pneumonics. He has dozens for each topic. Some people love them, some people hate them. Some people memorized them all (I didn't), some people mainly focused on the big ones. They are useful on the essays because you can throw out an entire pnuemonic and get extra points.

He is the master when it comes to NY law. If you do what he says, you will have absolutely no issues with the NY essays. He will give you the distinctions between NY and NJ as well. I did not, however, love him for MBE. I'd suggest supplementing his practice MBE questions with Kaplan (or adaptibar). While I know plenty of people who passed using just his MBE stuff, I supplemented and my MBE score was much higher than those who stuck strictly with his book.

I don't know how familiar you are with his schedule, but most weeks it goes something like this. Class 5 or 6 days out of the week from 9am-1:10pm. Quick lunch. Review your notes from that class (this can take upwards of 2 hours, sometimes 3). Do practice MBE and NY questions on the notes from that day. As the weeks pass by, he also has you go back and review full topics on top of the work I just spoke about. His schedule is near impossible to keep up with. Don't freak out. Nobody does it all. Just do as much as you can. There were several full topics (i.e. torts) that I learned during the first week or two and was not able to review again until the last week of studying. There are also some days where he does a full day class 9-4 or sometihng like that. Those are brutal.

His class has a personal feel. You can always call and speak directly to one of the Piepers. And a couple of days before the exam, one of them will call you and speak to you, which I thought was a nice touch.

One other thing I want to note. The way barbri, and I'm assuming most of the other commercial prep classes teach is as follows: All the MBE topics, and then a separate few lectures where they give you basically a list of NY distinctions. From what I was told, Barbri people did not even learn the distinctions until late in the program. Pieper does it differently. For example, He will teach MBE Civ and NY Civ at the same time. It would sound something like this: Personal jusridiction is XXX. To obtain personal jurisdiction in MBE/Fed you need XXX. To obtain Personal jurisdiction in NY, you need XXX. I really liked it this way.

Edit: One more thing. On the last day of class he makes predictions as to what will show up on the essays. He doesn't perfectly predict it, but he absolutely hits on several topics.

[myrtlewinston]

Thanks for your input. I spoke to Damian Pieper yesterday. He suggested the Early Start programme, so the schedule won't be as nuts.

[myrtlewinston]

I started my Pieper course today. So far, so good. John Pieper's explanations are clear. Does he teach every lecture?

[Cscottrun]

I started my Pieper course today. So far, so good. John Pieper's explanations are clear. Does he teach every lecture?

One other thing I want to add...The book that has all the cases (he has it on his schedule to review sometimes). No one ever reviews that. Don't waste your time. Spend it on MBE or just reviewing notes or writing essays instead. Also, no John teaches the majority of the classes, but his two sons, also teach some of the topics. John is great, but he moves very fast. It was always a breath of fresh air when the sons taught a day here or there because they move a bit slower (plus how many days in a row can you listen to John without going crazy). RULE!

[myrtlewinston]

I started my Pieper course today. So far, so good. John Pieper's explanations are clear. Does he teach every lecture?

One other thing I want to add...The book that has all the cases (he has it on his schedule to review sometimes). No one ever reviews that. Don't waste your time. Spend it on MBE or just reviewing notes or writing essays instead. Also, no John teaches the majority of the classes, but his two sons, also teach some of the topics. John is great, but he moves very fast. It was always a breath of fresh air when the sons taught a day here or there because they move a bit slower (plus how many days in a row can you listen to John without going crazy). RULE!

Thanks. RULE! is precisely why I asked if John teaches every lecture.
What else did you omit besides the cases? Did you read the books?

[myrtlewinston]

I am having trouble keeping pace with John Pieper and keep pausing and re-winding so that I can take notes. Did anyone skip the lectures and use the books instead? Thanks!

[northwood]

I used Pieper for July 2014 and passed. MY MBE score was LULZY bad so it was the essays and MPT that got me through.

I would basically repeat everything said above about the lectures, so I'll just add a +1 to all of the above. I basically memorized all of the mnemonics and all of the areas that he thought had a good chance of being tested on the exam. Guess it worked well.

If I had to do I again I would have done additional MBE work. I didn't think I practiced the MBE questions as effectively as I should have.
I also studied from home, so I had the ability to rewind the lectures and go back.

I don't know how Pieper will adapt to the new July 2016 bar- but I would assume the final product would be just as effective as the older exams.


"Pieper People Pass" ( but only if you commit to doing the work)

[myrtlewinston]

Pieper's explanations are very clear and his lectures thorough. However, the class notes are piling up. How did you all cope with amount of reading? I also don't retain information in long paragraph form, but in point form (so the mnemonics are good). Has anyone skipped the lectures and gone straight to the books? So stressed.

[northwood]

i never read the assigned cases or the long topic outlines. I just looked over my notes from the previous day, and if I was confused I would look at the outline. and used the mnemonics

[myrtlewinston]

Thanks! I'm ignoring the extra reading, but will tack on Adaptibar.

In the run up to the exam, did you outline from the lecture notes? Wondering if I should condense as I go along.

[northwood]

the 2 weeks prior to the exam I focused on memorizing the mnemonics as much as possible. I also tried to come up with canned rule statement paragraph intro sentences for each subject as we went through them (i.e. area of law, general statute of limitations rules (if any), topic sentences for each sub category (i.e. 1or 2 sentences, main definitions).

I would strongly suggest looking at old practice exams. I believe there are frequency charts out there for the likelihood each topic arises that you can help use to determine how to spend your time).

[starryski]

i failed NY in July 2015, but i did great on the essays and MPT. i got a 124 MBE with just a 127 i would have passed due to my essay scores. SO he's great for essays, but dont forget the MBE. he just does not give enough. this time im not watching the lectures but im reviewing the whole outline. it is gold. every rule comes straight from an MBE question or essay. do all the essays and at least 2-3 MPTS. (writing is my strong suit) memorize as many mnemonics as possible! i memorized about 85% and remember many to this day.

also, i did not condense. late in the game last summer i started using adaptibar. (this time it was the first thing i started with) i made my own mini outline with rules i got from adaptibar that I didn't know. pieper + adaptibar should work great. wish i had bought adaptibar sooner before last july.

[myrtlewinston]

Thanks for the advice.

What did you think of Pieper's MBE book? Skip and go straight to Adaptibar?

As for the rest of the assignments, which were must-dos?

[starryski]

Thanks for the advice.

What did you think of Pieper's MBE book? Skip and go straight to Adaptibar?

As for the rest of the assignments, which were must-dos?

pieper's MBE questions are the same as Adaptibar. They both use real MBE questions from the past. Do either, or both, but do a lot. I just didn't think he assigned enough MBE questions. all the essays are must dos and the MBE questions. and ready all if not most of the essays in that essay book. especially the old essay questions with answers. if you can't do them just read them.