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Looking for helpful advice from people who have also failed bars.

I got a 626 and then a 631 on the two NY Bars. The first time I did decently on the MBE and poorly on the essays, second time I flipped and did decently on essays and poorly on MBEs.

I'm thinking of giving up on NY and taking MD bar instead.

FYI, I took Barbri both times, and clearly it didn't work for me.

Any helpful advice would be most welcome. Please don't be a d*ck, I obviously feel pretty badly about this, and yes, I'm fairly intelligent and did very well in undergrad and decently in law school.

FailureIsAnOption wrote:Looking for helpful advice from people who have also failed bars.

I got a 626 and then a 631 on the two NY Bars. The first time I did decently on the MBE and poorly on the essays, second time I flipped and did decently on essays and poorly on MBEs.

I'm thinking of giving up on NY and taking MD bar instead.

FYI, I took Barbri both times, and clearly it didn't work for me.

Any helpful advice would be most welcome. Please don't be a d*ck, I obviously feel pretty badly about this, and yes, I'm fairly intelligent and did very well in undergrad and decently in law school.

Hi, sorry to hear about your experience. Have you tried looking into Separac for the essay portion? I felt that was much better than the BarBri prep, which devoted time to rules that would never be tested. MD's bar is not much easier than NY's. Are there jobs in MD you think you could get? Otherwise, I don't see a large advantage. Once you pass a bar, you can waive into DC if you score a 133 MBE or something like that. If you just want to pass a bar for the maximal job potential, I'd consider passing the UBE, as that applies to many states.

Also, I believe that even in NY, the MBE is the key to passing the exam. According to Separac, 97% of those who score a 140 scaled or better on the MBE pass the NY bar exam. The highest failing MBE score for the past PA exam was something like 150.

Having said that, scores below 640 are fairly low and it means you need to improve substantially to have a good shot at passing the next time. Are there jobs you can get without a license?

Thanks for your help. The difference between NY and MD bars if that MD is 2/3 essay, whereas NY is pretty much split.

I live in MD now, and obviously that would open up DC as well. NY is my home-state, so there's that.

No, I don't plan on giving up on the bar, I'll take it till I pass, and I'm working PT at a law firm now.

Have you considered Themis? I recently took and passed the NY Bar on my first try with Themis. I thought their coverage of the NY specific material was spot-on. Also, the MBE practice questions were VERY similar to the actual MBE. You should check it out. As long as you follow their schedule and complete over 80% of the coursework, you should pass.

I used barbri materials plus other things, might be able to help you here.

You don't need another bar prep program. First off, get Seperac. Read everything on his site, consult his Master. He has other materials on there that are useful.

Ok so now - you have been through the barbri lectures once. You have those handouts. Use only the following:
-CMR for review/reference
-Handouts for studying
-NY Essay Book

I don't think you should redo the lectures if you went through them once. It's too time consuming.

In my view, that NY Essay Book is key. You need to get on it. A pace that has you doing all of them by the end of your study period is what you need to plan for. Seriously. What I did is review Seperac's outlines/Master> Do Barbri essays. Before you do them, brush up on their essay advice (format, etc).

You also need to do Adaptibar (real mbe qs, whatever the program). You need to do the entire database. Review the qs you got wrong. Some of my friends used the Barbri mbe program with good results. The bottom line is you need to do 2,000 mbe questions at minimum and you need a good MBE score of 145+. I scored a 155 doing this.

Finally, relax this time. Good luck.

iiifly wrote:I used barbri materials plus other things, might be able to help you here.

You don't need another bar prep program. First off, get Seperac. Read everything on his site, consult his Master. He has other materials on there that are useful.

Ok so now - you have been through the barbri lectures once. You have those handouts. Use only the following:
-CMR for review/reference
-Handouts for studying
-NY Essay Book

I don't think you should redo the lectures if you went through them once. It's too time consuming.

In my view, that NY Essay Book is key. You need to get on it. A pace that has you doing all of them by the end of your study period is what you need to plan for. Seriously. What I did is review Seperac's outlines/Master> Do Barbri essays. Before you do them, brush up on their essay advice (format, etc).

You also need to do Adaptibar (real mbe qs, whatever the program). You need to do the entire database. Review the qs you got wrong. Some of my friends used the Barbri mbe program with good results. The bottom line is you need to do 2,000 mbe questions at minimum and you need a good MBE score of 145+. I scored a 155 doing this.

Finally, relax this time. Good luck.

2000 at the minimum? There are only 1530 licensed questions for the MBE subjects, and are the ones that Adaptibar uses, no?

dudnaito wrote:
2000 at the minimum? There are only 1530 licensed questions for the MBE subjects, and are the ones that Adaptibar uses, no?

I forgot to mention that in addition to Adaptibar, I did about 1,100 of BarBri q's. So total I did 2,600. He already has the BarBri program, so all those q's are available - so he should do a good deal of them.

There's no one right way to study for the bar, and in all honesty, trying to make somebody else's system work for you is probably just going to be a waste of time.

I think the more important consideration would probably be to study much harder than you did previously.

I took BarBri in 2012 and passed the NY/NJ exams. I attended 95% of the lectures (in NJ so they were on video) and probably completed 85% of the overall course. You have to review your notes after the lecture. I would hand-write the notes during the lecture using the handouts. After the lecture, I would go sit in the library and retype the notes into an outline, so I have nice outlines! And, of course, I would do every practice MBE and essay question imaginable. I have no idea what my score is. 'Passed' is all I needed to hear.

Right now I am studying for the Maryland Bar (July 2014). I am studying with Themis this time because its cheaper. I work full-time in MD as an attorney (out-of-state lawyer rules; see Rule 15).

Failing the bar twice can be discouraging. You should take a course that offers you a money-back guarantee for failing, or at least a free repeat course. BarBri does not offer that, but Themis does. I think Pieper does too. You also may want to talk to your law school Dean. The Deans often have experience with those who fail the bar and might have some good advice on how to work your strengths and minimize your weaknesses. And bar passage rates affect the law school, so Deans should have an interest in helping you pass.

I think the trick is the practice questions/exams. If you do well in a formal test environment during practice, you'll do well on the exam. Time yourself. Try to set up a test environment that closely matches the true test taking environment. Keep track of where you are losing points and try to fix those areas. Slow and steady wins the race.

Maryland is actually harder than New York. So don't switch. Very few are easier than NYC.

What were the MBE scores each time?