Vanderbilt 1L Taking Questions Forum

[Grizz]

splitting is great - doubles your offer chances!

No necessarily. You can hurt your chances at both if firms perceive you as not committed, if they have less work product to judge you by, if they just know you less well, etc.

[drylo]

I've long wondered, how exactly do you go about splitting the summer? Why would anyone willingly hire for only 5 or 6 weeks? And how much value is actually added by splitting in this way? Wouldn't the resume boost be somewhat off set simply by virtue of not having been in one place long enough to make strong connections, get recommendations and really learn the ins and outs?

To go down your line of questions...

As rad mentioned, some firms (especially in the South) only offer a six week summer program and expect you to split (at least years past). Other firms do a summer-long program but will consider letting you split. I am at one of each this summer.

I don't know why firms do it exactly--lower cost, still plenty of time to evaluate (way longer than an interview in any non-legal field), make sure you really want to be at the firm (for fit reasons), etc.

I don't think it hurts your resume at all, if that is what you were saying. On second reading, maybe you are saying that it might look good on your resume, but not have as many intangible positives as being at one place all summer. I have two things to say to that. First, I think there is value in comparing two different firms. Second, just because you don't split doesn't mean that you get 12 or 13 weeks in one firm. Some firms are doing 8 or 10 week summer programs these days.

[drylo]

splitting is great - doubles your offer chances!

No necessarily. You can hurt your chances at both if firms perceive you as not committed, if they have less work product to judge you by, if they just know you less well, etc.

More often than not, I agree that splitting probably increases your chances of getting an offer. But these things (listed by rad) are all risks that you might consider if you are splitting at a firm where other people are not splitting. (If it is a firm that only wants you for 6 weeks, then I don't think you really need to worry about those things--with the caveat that you should always show that you are interested/committed to possibly working there.)

[lostinspace]

drylo and rad - you are correct in your splitting comments about firms which do not offer six week programs. In those that do, however, you look sort of bad if you don't have another six week program lined up. My firm (which has a six week program) always asks the SAs if they are working somewhere else for the last part of the summer. We like to know that we have SAs that other firms found attractive in the interview process as well. If the SA does a good job at both firms then he/she has a reasonable shot at two job offers.

[akili]

This is kind of a silly question, but my family has a big reunion every year in the summer. With internships, would it still be possible to have a week off somewhere in there?

[bella07]

i have a couple questions about lifestyle at vandy and i apologize if they've been asked already in some form. if so, please just direct me to relevant posts.
1) i know vandy recommends something like $68,000 to cover all expenses. how much of that is REALLY needed if say, you pay $700 rent, take the bus/don't own a car, prepare most of your own meals? i'm used to nyc prices and could live quite well there on less than $50,000. but i'd be wondering what the budget range for vandy kids is, like is it totally possible to get by on less than $20,000 without worrying where every cent goes? what salary would you recommend.
2) i'm an older student (4 years out) and i worry that the younger class (i think it's 45% straight out of college) will make me feel like a bit of a babysitter (no offense, i just know how immature i was at 22). i'm also worried that, since the school is so small, this will be the bulk of my social life. are there any older students who are unmarried and have never lived in the south who can speak to social life there. and, please, be honest. i'm already happily committed to going, i just want to be prepared:)
many thanks!

[gogators]

This is kind of a silly question, but my family has a big reunion every year in the summer. With internships, would it still be possible to have a week off somewhere in there?

This is tough if you're doing a full summer. I haven't heard of anyone doing this over the course of an entire summer. However, many people only did half a summer over 1L summer which then theoretically you could have as many weeks off as you want.

[gogators]

i have a couple questions about lifestyle at vandy and i apologize if they've been asked already in some form. if so, please just direct me to relevant posts.
1) i know vandy recommends something like $68,000 to cover all expenses. how much of that is REALLY needed if say, you pay $700 rent, take the bus/don't own a car, prepare most of your own meals? i'm used to nyc prices and could live quite well there on less than $50,000. but i'd be wondering what the budget range for vandy kids is, like is it totally possible to get by on less than $20,000 without worrying where every cent goes? what salary would you recommend.
2) i'm an older student (4 years out) and i worry that the younger class (i think it's 45% straight out of college) will make me feel like a bit of a babysitter (no offense, i just know how immature i was at 22). i'm also worried that, since the school is so small, this will be the bulk of my social life. are there any older students who are unmarried and have never lived in the south who can speak to social life there. and, please, be honest. i'm already happily committed to going, i just want to be prepared:)
many thanks!

1: This is a very personal question. I know some people who barely manage to scrape by. But then again I know others who live "ok" with the full amount. I tend to scrape by personally, and could give you a host of valid reasons, but not right now. However, let me give you some a quote of two of my best friends said to me who happened to get married either right before or during 1L year. "How the hell do you manage to live on the loan money they give you." Both of these people have their wives' incomes to help support them and makes their lives a little easier. In the end, I would take out the full amount you're first year, and if you don't use it all, save it, and then take out less the next year. It's a lot easier to take out the money when they offer it to you then to go back in time.

2: You're age won't be a problem. Seriously. There are plenty of people who either didn't go straight through, didn't start law school at age 22, or aren't age-phobic. I started at the ripe age of 24, and came straight through. One of my best friends turns 30 this year. The oldest (and possibly coolest guy in my year started at 35). In no way does anyone care about you being a few years older than others. It's just like anything else, if you go into a situation worrying that something will be an issue, you'll make it BECOME an issue.

[drylo]

i have a couple questions about lifestyle at vandy and i apologize if they've been asked already in some form. if so, please just direct me to relevant posts.
1) i know vandy recommends something like $68,000 to cover all expenses. how much of that is REALLY needed if say, you pay $700 rent, take the bus/don't own a car, prepare most of your own meals? i'm used to nyc prices and could live quite well there on less than $50,000. but i'd be wondering what the budget range for vandy kids is, like is it totally possible to get by on less than $20,000 without worrying where every cent goes? what salary would you recommend.
2) i'm an older student (4 years out) and i worry that the younger class (i think it's 45% straight out of college) will make me feel like a bit of a babysitter (no offense, i just know how immature i was at 22). i'm also worried that, since the school is so small, this will be the bulk of my social life. are there any older students who are unmarried and have never lived in the south who can speak to social life there. and, please, be honest. i'm already happily committed to going, i just want to be prepared:)
many thanks!

1: This is a very personal question. I know some people who barely manage to scrape by. But then again I know others who live "ok" with the full amount. I tend to scrape by personally, and could give you a host of valid reasons, but not right now. However, let me give you some a quote of two of my best friends said to me who happened to get married either right before or during 1L year. "How the hell do you manage to live on the loan money they give you." Both of these people have their wives' incomes to help support them and makes their lives a little easier. In the end, I would take out the full amount you're first year, and if you don't use it all, save it, and then take out less the next year. It's a lot easier to take out the money when they offer it to you then to go back in time.

2: You're age won't be a problem. Seriously. There are plenty of people who either didn't go straight through, didn't start law school at age 22, or aren't age-phobic. I started at the ripe age of 24, and came straight through. One of my best friends turns 30 this year. The oldest (and possibly coolest guy in my year started at 35). In no way does anyone care about you being a few years older than others. It's just like anything else, if you go into a situation worrying that something will be an issue, you'll make it BECOME an issue.

I basically agree with #2. For #1, I think that it would be useful to inject a little perspective and say that you could definitely live on $20,000 as a single guy. Obviously, the more you go out and drink, the more you go through money.

[fingersxd]

splitting is great - doubles your offer chances!

No necessarily. You can hurt your chances at both if firms perceive you as not committed, if they have less work product to judge you by, if they just know you less well, etc.

More often than not, I agree that splitting probably increases your chances of getting an offer. But these things (listed by rad) are all risks that you might consider if you are splitting at a firm where other people are not splitting. (If it is a firm that only wants you for 6 weeks, then I don't think you really need to worry about those things--with the caveat that you should always show that you are interested/committed to possibly working there.)

I assume we'll know well in advance of OCI which firms have short vs. long summer sessions then? And if so, for some such as drylo who are splitting, did you go through OCI with that in mind at all (i.e. targeting certain firms that only had the 1/2 summer requirement)?

[fingersxd]

On an unrelated note, how are Vandy's alumni? I really don't know any, so I'm curious how active/supportive they are (or aren't). I like the idea of alumni reaching out to current students, mentoring, etc.

[drylo]

splitting is great - doubles your offer chances!

No necessarily. You can hurt your chances at both if firms perceive you as not committed, if they have less work product to judge you by, if they just know you less well, etc.

More often than not, I agree that splitting probably increases your chances of getting an offer. But these things (listed by rad) are all risks that you might consider if you are splitting at a firm where other people are not splitting. (If it is a firm that only wants you for 6 weeks, then I don't think you really need to worry about those things--with the caveat that you should always show that you are interested/committed to possibly working there.)

I assume we'll know well in advance of OCI which firms have short vs. long summer sessions then? And if so, for some such as drylo who are splitting, did you go through OCI with that in mind at all (i.e. targeting certain firms that only had the 1/2 summer requirement)?

Well, you can generally find this out before OCI by looking at the firm's website or its NALP info (it is on NALP). But I didn't really "target" firms like that. I targeted firms in two mid-market cities (one being Nashville). As far as I know, everybody in Nashville does a six week program.

[drylo]

On an unrelated note, how are Vandy's alumni? I really don't know any, so I'm curious how active/supportive they are (or aren't). I like the idea of alumni reaching out to current students, mentoring, etc.

As I said, I was targeting Nashville pretty hard, and in Nashville, it is kind of hard to assess the alumni situation because everybody is a Vandy alum (not literally, but you know what I mean). I reached out to one alum in the other city, and he was helpful. And there is a Vandy alum at the firm I am working at in that city, too.

[observationalist]

Is there any discussion about Vandy trying to improve their LRAP program

Emma1, I suggest contacting the outgoing student leadership for LSSJ (Law Students for Social Justice). They work with the law school's Social Justice Program and have pushed for improvements before, so if anything is in the works they would probably know about it (or could find out). I'll PM you the contact info.

The last time I spoke with the school about LRAP was in March, and I was only asking whether international policy work qualifies for LRAP despite the "legal position" requirement (it does). But IMO the school can do better. With the capped monthly payments under the federal IBR program, the school should be raising the caps on LRAP without necessarily having to raise more funds. Student lobbying is a good way to make that happen.

I also suggest contacting the staff to ask for stats on how many grads participate in LRAP and where they are located. It's possible that the combined IBR/LRAP relief isn't so bad in major U.S. markets, though I can say I am living far more comfortably in Chile with what we currently make. G'luck finding out more.

[gogators]

On an unrelated note, how are Vandy's alumni? I really don't know any, so I'm curious how active/supportive they are (or aren't). I like the idea of alumni reaching out to current students, mentoring, etc.

As I said, I was targeting Nashville pretty hard, and in Nashville, it is kind of hard to assess the alumni situation because everybody is a Vandy alum (not literally, but you know what I mean). I reached out to one alum in the other city, and he was helpful. And there is a Vandy alum at the firm I am working at in that city, too.

I've found Vandy alumni to be very accessible and helpful. When going through OCI and job hunting last fall, I looked at a ton of firms. Then I would search certain ones to see if there were any Vandy grads, specifically younger ones, and would then email them to ask them advice, etc. I would do this with the partners too but would keep my questions more general and then ask if I could send them a resume to "pass around the office to anybody needing someone with my credentials." Both ways, the people I met and talked to were very helpful and nice.

[pleasetryagain]

Could anyone familiar with the Nashville area comment on the traffic situation (esp. in the mornings) on the I-40? I'm thinking of renting at the Grande View apt complex (7100 Sonya Dr) and was wondering how bad driving to school would be.

according to google maps you are SW of Nashville. I drive SE to work everyday and traffic on the way into the city is an absolute mess; bumper to bumper the whole way. I am fairly certain, though not positive, that traffic coming into the city from the S/SW is not as bad as the other areas. Count on a 10-20 minute drive .. not bad especially if you are saving moneys.

[thelawyler]

Can anybody tell me about the neighborhood around 1700 Midtown (1700 State St). It seems like a brand new complex that just got put up 15 minutes from the school, but I almost feel its too far out there.

[drylo]

Can anybody tell me about the neighborhood around 1700 Midtown (1700 State St). It seems like a brand new complex that just got put up 15 minutes from the school, but I almost feel its too far out there.

You would know more than I do about the actual complex, but it is not 15 minutes from school. That is 5 minutes or less. Depending on your sensibilities, it might be getting into a slightly less polished area as you get over toward Charlotte (but that's not the hood or anything right there).

[cmckid]

I don't go to Vandy but I lived in Nashville for 17 out of 18 years before going to college in California, so I thought I'd try to set the record on life in Nashville.

1st- If you are gay/lesbian/TG etc. do not shy away from Nashville. Sure it isn't DC/San Fran/NY but my best friend is gay and he hasn't ever had a single problem in Nashville and rarely has problems at MTSU which is much more hick. The young generation in Nashville is very gay friendly, although the undergrad at Vandy is a lot more conservative, Belmont and the other schools have very large gay populations and there are a good number of gay and lesbian bars, especially near West End.

2nd- Crime is really low in Nashville proper, especially around the Vandy and West End area. I regularly go to Tarboosh off 21st (a hookah bar) and even there, with its kind of shady clientele, I've never felt uncomfortable. Just don't go to Antioch or Madison and you'll be fine. You won't ever have to worry about crime in your daily life like people at Chicago/NYU do.

3rd- Social life in Nashville is under appreciated. The music scene for country is clearly the best in the country, but Indie music, classic rock, and rap are also really big in the city. The bar scene is excellent, and ranges from straight out dance clubs to really nice low key places. My favorite is the Flying Saucer at Union Station, which has an amazing selection of beer, good shows on the weekend, and a nice sit down and hang out setting.

4th- Nashville is really cheap if you know where to buy and live. The numbers Vandy has for COL are absurdly high. One of my friends goes to Vandy undergrad, lives in an apartment nearby, buys his own food, etc. and rarely tops $1000 a month. And even though his apartment is fairly ratty, its equivalent to an apartment that might cost 2-4 times that much in NYC.

5th- Drivers suck in Nashville. It's a fact of life. People drive way too fast or way too slow, rarely use their turn signals correctly, turn left out of a right hand lane (that annoyed the shit out of me yesterday) and just generally do stupid shit. You have to be on your toes. The Interstate is better but you'll still see the too fast/too slow dichotomy.

6th- If you have a family/might want to stay in Nashville, it is a great place to grow up. The public magnet schools (I went to one and my mom teaches at the other) are in the top 50 high schools in the country, the private schools are excellent, childcare is great, people are very polite and pleasant, and Nashville instills the better aspects of southern culture (hospitality, empathy, and blue collar work ethic) with liberal social values, the opportunity to attend excellent religious institutions, etc. Plus the State has no income tax and is remarkably well run, despite the stupidity of the Don't say gay laws, etc. The municipal govt. is excellently run and if Haslam is half the governor Bredesen was, the state as a whole should continue to be excellently run.

Long post lol. If anyone has more questions about life in Nashville (not at Vandy law specifically) I'll be checking this thread often. Given how good Vandy's career outcomes are for students and the quality of instruction I would be more than happy to attend, especially over any of the 10-14 schools.

[pleasetryagain]

5th- Drivers suck in Nashville. It's a fact of life. People drive way too fast or way too slow, rarely use their turn signals correctly, turn left out of a right hand lane (that annoyed the shit out of me yesterday) and just generally do stupid shit. You have to be on your toes. The Interstate is better but you'll still see the too fast/too slow dichotomy.

This. Growing up in Jersey we'd have to plan on 30-40 minutes of traffic; in Nashville you plan on at least one major highway accident a day that shuts down two lanes and bottlenecks like crazy for 30-40 minutes (see lack of driving skills above). No one can drive here. Fact.

[ktg808]

I don't go to Vandy but I lived in Nashville for 17 out of 18 years before going to college in California, so I thought I'd try to set the record on life in Nashville.

1st- If you are gay/lesbian/TG etc. do not shy away from Nashville. Sure it isn't DC/San Fran/NY but my best friend is gay and he hasn't ever had a single problem in Nashville and rarely has problems at MTSU which is much more hick. The young generation in Nashville is very gay friendly, although the undergrad at Vandy is a lot more conservative, Belmont and the other schools have very large gay populations and there are a good number of gay and lesbian bars, especially near West End.

2nd- Crime is really low in Nashville proper, especially around the Vandy and West End area. I regularly go to Tarboosh off 21st (a hookah bar) and even there, with its kind of shady clientele, I've never felt uncomfortable. Just don't go to Antioch or Madison and you'll be fine. You won't ever have to worry about crime in your daily life like people at Chicago/NYU do.

3rd- Social life in Nashville is under appreciated. The music scene for country is clearly the best in the country, but Indie music, classic rock, and rap are also really big in the city. The bar scene is excellent, and ranges from straight out dance clubs to really nice low key places. My favorite is the Flying Saucer at Union Station, which has an amazing selection of beer, good shows on the weekend, and a nice sit down and hang out setting.

4th- Nashville is really cheap if you know where to buy and live. The numbers Vandy has for COL are absurdly high. One of my friends goes to Vandy undergrad, lives in an apartment nearby, buys his own food, etc. and rarely tops $1000 a month. And even though his apartment is fairly ratty, its equivalent to an apartment that might cost 2-4 times that much in NYC.

5th- Drivers suck in Nashville. It's a fact of life. People drive way too fast or way too slow, rarely use their turn signals correctly, turn left out of a right hand lane (that annoyed the shit out of me yesterday) and just generally do stupid shit. You have to be on your toes. The Interstate is better but you'll still see the too fast/too slow dichotomy.

6th- If you have a family/might want to stay in Nashville, it is a great place to grow up. The public magnet schools (I went to one and my mom teaches at the other) are in the top 50 high schools in the country, the private schools are excellent, childcare is great, people are very polite and pleasant, and Nashville instills the better aspects of southern culture (hospitality, empathy, and blue collar work ethic) with liberal social values, the opportunity to attend excellent religious institutions, etc. Plus the State has no income tax and is remarkably well run, despite the stupidity of the Don't say gay laws, etc. The municipal govt. is excellently run and if Haslam is half the governor Bredesen was, the state as a whole should continue to be excellently run.

Long post lol. If anyone has more questions about life in Nashville (not at Vandy law specifically) I'll be checking this thread often. Given how good Vandy's career outcomes are for students and the quality of instruction I would be more than happy to attend, especially over any of the 10-14 schools.

Very reassuring

[gogators]

I don't go to Vandy but I lived in Nashville for 17 out of 18 years before going to college in California, so I thought I'd try to set the record on life in Nashville.

1st- If you are gay/lesbian/TG etc. do not shy away from Nashville. Sure it isn't DC/San Fran/NY but my best friend is gay and he hasn't ever had a single problem in Nashville and rarely has problems at MTSU which is much more hick. The young generation in Nashville is very gay friendly, although the undergrad at Vandy is a lot more conservative, Belmont and the other schools have very large gay populations and there are a good number of gay and lesbian bars, especially near West End.

2nd- Crime is really low in Nashville proper, especially around the Vandy and West End area. I regularly go to Tarboosh off 21st (a hookah bar) and even there, with its kind of shady clientele, I've never felt uncomfortable. Just don't go to Antioch or Madison and you'll be fine. You won't ever have to worry about crime in your daily life like people at Chicago/NYU do.

3rd- Social life in Nashville is under appreciated. The music scene for country is clearly the best in the country, but Indie music, classic rock, and rap are also really big in the city. The bar scene is excellent, and ranges from straight out dance clubs to really nice low key places. My favorite is the Flying Saucer at Union Station, which has an amazing selection of beer, good shows on the weekend, and a nice sit down and hang out setting.

4th- Nashville is really cheap if you know where to buy and live. The numbers Vandy has for COL are absurdly high. One of my friends goes to Vandy undergrad, lives in an apartment nearby, buys his own food, etc. and rarely tops $1000 a month. And even though his apartment is fairly ratty, its equivalent to an apartment that might cost 2-4 times that much in NYC.

5th- Drivers suck in Nashville. It's a fact of life. People drive way too fast or way too slow, rarely use their turn signals correctly, turn left out of a right hand lane (that annoyed the shit out of me yesterday) and just generally do stupid shit. You have to be on your toes. The Interstate is better but you'll still see the too fast/too slow dichotomy.

6th- If you have a family/might want to stay in Nashville, it is a great place to grow up. The public magnet schools (I went to one and my mom teaches at the other) are in the top 50 high schools in the country, the private schools are excellent, childcare is great, people are very polite and pleasant, and Nashville instills the better aspects of southern culture (hospitality, empathy, and blue collar work ethic) with liberal social values, the opportunity to attend excellent religious institutions, etc. Plus the State has no income tax and is remarkably well run, despite the stupidity of the Don't say gay laws, etc. The municipal govt. is excellently run and if Haslam is half the governor Bredesen was, the state as a whole should continue to be excellently run.

Long post lol. If anyone has more questions about life in Nashville (not at Vandy law specifically) I'll be checking this thread often. Given how good Vandy's career outcomes are for students and the quality of instruction I would be more than happy to attend, especially over any of the 10-14 schools.

TITCR

[stratocophic]

I don't go to Vandy but I lived in Nashville for 17 out of 18 years before going to college in California, so I thought I'd try to set the record on life in Nashville.

1st- If you are gay/lesbian/TG etc. do not shy away from Nashville. Sure it isn't DC/San Fran/NY but my best friend is gay and he hasn't ever had a single problem in Nashville and rarely has problems at MTSU which is much more hick. The young generation in Nashville is very gay friendly, although the undergrad at Vandy is a lot more conservative, Belmont and the other schools have very large gay populations and there are a good number of gay and lesbian bars, especially near West End.

2nd- Crime is really low in Nashville proper, especially around the Vandy and West End area. I regularly go to Tarboosh off 21st (a hookah bar) and even there, with its kind of shady clientele, I've never felt uncomfortable. Just don't go to Antioch or Madison and you'll be fine. You won't ever have to worry about crime in your daily life like people at Chicago/NYU do.

3rd- Social life in Nashville is under appreciated. The music scene for country is clearly the best in the country, but Indie music, classic rock, and rap are also really big in the city. The bar scene is excellent, and ranges from straight out dance clubs to really nice low key places. My favorite is the Flying Saucer at Union Station, which has an amazing selection of beer, good shows on the weekend, and a nice sit down and hang out setting.

4th- Nashville is really cheap if you know where to buy and live. The numbers Vandy has for COL are absurdly high. One of my friends goes to Vandy undergrad, lives in an apartment nearby, buys his own food, etc. and rarely tops $1000 a month. And even though his apartment is fairly ratty, its equivalent to an apartment that might cost 2-4 times that much in NYC.

5th- Drivers suck in Nashville. It's a fact of life. People drive way too fast or way too slow, rarely use their turn signals correctly, turn left out of a right hand lane (that annoyed the shit out of me yesterday) and just generally do stupid shit. You have to be on your toes. The Interstate is better but you'll still see the too fast/too slow dichotomy.

6th- If you have a family/might want to stay in Nashville, it is a great place to grow up. The public magnet schools (I went to one and my mom teaches at the other) are in the top 50 high schools in the country, the private schools are excellent, childcare is great, people are very polite and pleasant, and Nashville instills the better aspects of southern culture (hospitality, empathy, and blue collar work ethic) with liberal social values, the opportunity to attend excellent religious institutions, etc. Plus the State has no income tax and is remarkably well run, despite the stupidity of the Don't say gay laws, etc. The municipal govt. is excellently run and if Haslam is half the governor Bredesen was, the state as a whole should continue to be excellently run.

Long post lol. If anyone has more questions about life in Nashville (not at Vandy law specifically) I'll be checking this thread often. Given how good Vandy's career outcomes are for students and the quality of instruction I would be more than happy to attend, especially over any of the 10-14 schools.

TITCR

Can confirm every word of this. If you're considering Vandy but getting bent out of shape because it's in Nashville, the problem probably isn't with Nashville.

[ktg808]

How does printing on campus work? Is a laser printer a worthy investment?

[gogators]

How does printing on campus work? Is a laser printer a worthy investment?

Don't buy a printer. You get plenty of free printing in the library. Plus, anything westlaw or lexis prints for free.