Golden Gate University School of Law Forum

[20160810]

It honestly sounds, based on this thread, as if one might truly be better off not going to law school at all than getting their JD from GGU.

[barnacle10]

Hello,

I am only responding because I have read many negative comments regarding GGU Law. My goal is to be brutality honest and give you the best feedback available.

I am currently a 2L at GGU so I feel my information may be very helpful. Many of the comments (practically all) are at least a year old. Recently GGU came off its Probation status from the ABA. Its current Bar Passage Rate was over 80% - after adjusting for only first time takers it was 68%.....9% higher than California's average.

GGU has gone to great lengths to ensure its accreditation. By this I mean it has tightened it standards about who it admits, placed more of an emphasis on "bar" courses and started many "physical changes" on campus. The School is doubling the size of its Library, added an additional building (maybe a 4th building soon) and made class size smaller.

The downside....Many students who have been given an opportunity over the years (ie older, minorities, disadvantaged) will no longer be admitted as heavily as they were in the past. The school is taking more students with higher GPA's and LSAT scores rather than looking at the full body of work. Additionally the Mid-Year Program has been eliminated.

I will hold my opinion as to whether I like this "change" in policy - just make your own mind up.



Program, Faculty and Staff:

GGU has many great programs that are not really known to outsiders. If you are interested in Public Interest or Environmental Law GGU should be one of your top schools, regardless of where you are deciding. International Law and Criminal Law are also well respected programs. Corporate Law and IP are not as big.

The Faculty for the most part are very helpful and really care. However some professors only pay attention to the top students and give minimum attention to lower ranked students.

Staff/Administration: The Staff is great, they are friendly, willing to help and always enjoy a good joke. The Administration however (in my opinion) is so disconnected with the student body. There is a TON of potential for GGU and I feel the Administration (Remember this not just the Law school but GGU the University and other grad programs) lacks the desire to turn GGU into a top school. There is an empty parking lot next to GGU that is owned by the school. A parking deck, rec center, a dorm, another building, etc ,etc. Yet an empty parking lot. Additionally GGU seems to be very liberal. Though Liberal is not a bad thing - it is when there is never an opposing view (esp. in Law School).


In closing - GGU is a school that I feel will continue to provide a solid Legal Education. There are some problems that should be fixed but overall this is a quality law school. Some of the older comments seem to come from students who have been disqualified academically and have a very skewed view. I hope this has been an objective and helpful review.

Cheers,

[Skeptical2L]

If you are interested in Public Interest or Environmental Law GGU should be one of your top schools, regardless of where you are deciding. International Law and Criminal Law are also well respected programs.

I'm sorry, but do you work for the admissions office? I understand you want to stick up for your school, but this is over the top. If an applicant is interested in public interest law, and she is admitted to, let's say, NYU and Boalt, or even to Hastings, you're saying she should still consider Golden Gate as "one of [her] top schools"? Seriously?

[sherman]

Hello,

I am only responding because I have read many negative comments regarding GGU Law. My goal is to be brutality honest and give you the best feedback available.

I am currently a 2L at GGU so I feel my information may be very helpful. Many of the comments (practically all) are at least a year old. Recently GGU came off its Probation status from the ABA. Its current Bar Passage Rate was over 80% - after adjusting for only first time takers it was 68%.....9% higher than California's average.

GGU has gone to great lengths to ensure its accreditation. By this I mean it has tightened it standards about who it admits, placed more of an emphasis on "bar" courses and started many "physical changes" on campus. The School is doubling the size of its Library, added an additional building (maybe a 4th building soon) and made class size smaller.

The downside....Many students who have been given an opportunity over the years (ie older, minorities, disadvantaged) will no longer be admitted as heavily as they were in the past. The school is taking more students with higher GPA's and LSAT scores rather than looking at the full body of work. Additionally the Mid-Year Program has been eliminated.

I will hold my opinion as to whether I like this "change" in policy - just make your own mind up.



Program, Faculty and Staff:

GGU has many great programs that are not really known to outsiders. If you are interested in Public Interest or Environmental Law GGU should be one of your top schools, regardless of where you are deciding. International Law and Criminal Law are also well respected programs. Corporate Law and IP are not as big.

The Faculty for the most part are very helpful and really care. However some professors only pay attention to the top students and give minimum attention to lower ranked students.

Staff/Administration: The Staff is great, they are friendly, willing to help and always enjoy a good joke. The Administration however (in my opinion) is so disconnected with the student body. There is a TON of potential for GGU and I feel the Administration (Remember this not just the Law school but GGU the University and other grad programs) lacks the desire to turn GGU into a top school. There is an empty parking lot next to GGU that is owned by the school. A parking deck, rec center, a dorm, another building, etc ,etc. Yet an empty parking lot. Additionally GGU seems to be very liberal. Though Liberal is not a bad thing - it is when there is never an opposing view (esp. in Law School).


In closing - GGU is a school that I feel will continue to provide a solid Legal Education. There are some problems that should be fixed but overall this is a quality law school. Some of the older comments seem to come from students who have been disqualified academically and have a very skewed view. I hope this has been an objective and helpful review.

Cheers,

first off i am a graduate of ggu from 1994, bachelor's, and i have high regards for the school

...but the agengo school of business and their reputation (with former chief of staff usaf general john jumper, bank of america's former ceo and chairman richard rosenberg, and microsoft maverick rick belluzo) is pretty good and when i graduated with my bachelor's and considered my mba there, gourman reports had listed it 77th in the nation of over 700 mba schools back then in the category of regionally accredited mba programs (wasc, for instance in california)

but their law school, while aba and wasc, has not in any year ranked in a similar way near the top ten percent in the nation in their category of aba law schools... (only stanford, usc, ucla, boalt, uc davis, and hastings, and maybe one or two others in california) have a top ten percent national law school on any given year

even some years, hastings and uc davis didn't make the top ten percent of nearly 200 law schools rated, and arguably california's top law school, boalt, has fallen out of the top 10 on some nationwide rankings

....so ggu has a long way to go and at very best, if they pass uop, santa clara, or pepperdine, i would consider that a great achievement based on their funding

but uc davis, hastings, uc boalt, usc, ucla, and stanford are on their own level with huge funding from tons of alums who have become judges and very successful business people, and not merely high end lawyers

i think for ggu's law school to catch up with other ggu schools in taxation, business, and public administration, it has a way to go

the best ggu law school can do this decade is mid-tier, and that's really not a bad goal

along with ggu at 117, there are nearly 80 aba schools ranked below them and no aba school is cheap

when lawyers themselves say there are easier ways to make money, they are not kidding

[IP Freely]

A few points. I'm not sure why people who haven't attended GGU are bashing GGU and Tier 4 schools in general. Do they not have anything better to do? And if they did not attend GGU, then why should they care? And why the vitrol? I do not believe that GGU has offended you. Or am I wrong?

Yes. If you believe that your life is about graduating law school at 25, getting a job at a top fim paying you $160,000 and working into your 30's and 40's hoping to make partner by your 50's and then end up having a major coronary by age 57, then GGU is probably not for you. On the other hand if you wish to get a solid legal education GGU may be a good option.

The fact of the matter is life after law school is tough even for those students in Tier 1 schools.

Don't listen to posters here on the Message Board. Obviously they have their own problems.

[Bateman]

IP Freely = GGU Staff.
I really, really find it funny that these staff members have nothing better to do than to defend their TTT School of Scamming.

The fact of the matter is life after law school is tough even for those students in Tier 1 schools.

Compared to TTT GGU, bottom of the class T1 students have it easier. My question is WHY must you pay $100,000+ for a "solid legal education" that does not guarantee you a job after graduation? What exactly is the purpose of law school to you? No one, NO ONE in their right mind takes out a huge loan JUST to get a "legal education". The whole point of law school is to prepare you for a legal-related job. It's a f*cking professional school, not a graduate school. GGU FAILS AGAIN

[IP Freely]

IP Freely = GGU Staff.
I really, really find it funny that these staff members have nothing better to do than to defend their TTT School of Scamming.

The fact of the matter is life after law school is tough even for those students in Tier 1 schools.

Compared to TTT GGU, bottom of the class T1 students have it easier. My question is WHY must you pay $100,000+ for a "solid legal education" that does not guarantee you a job after graduation? What exactly is the purpose of law school to you? No one, NO ONE in their right mind takes out a huge loan JUST to get a "legal education". The whole point of law school is to prepare you for a legal-related job. It's a f*cking professional school, not a graduate school. GGU FAILS AGAIN

Nope. Not GGU Staff.

And no school guarantees you a job. That's a complete B.S. illusion. You are not what the schools give you but what you make of yourself. If you can't hack it then it's probably your own fault.

Look, if you are going into Law simply for the money then you are bound for disillusionment. But that's true about a lot of things.

[articulably suspect]

Andrea, your roommate's experience is fairly representative of the top 10% of any toilet law school - that is, with good grades, law review, interviewing skills, and sometimes connections, GGU grads can find good jobs. For most non-elite law schools, the equation is "top 10% or bust". Have you ever considered the fate of the other 90%? Perhaps another 10% can find jobs at smaller firms; another 10% either have solid connections or go work for family members. What about the rest of the class?

You say that "not everyone who goes there is a tool destined to have resume after resume rejected". I agree with that assertion - yes, not everyone. But what about the majority? You know, not everyone is in the top 10%. What about someone in the middle of the class with $130k in loans and zero job prospects? Do you realize that these loans are effectively undischargeable?

I maintain that lower-tier law schools are essentially a fraud upon the majority of their students. The top students have a chance at success, and the ones in the middle are screwed. I won't even mention the ones at the bottom, as they will never work as lawyers. On top of this, top students are offered scholarships to keep them from transferring, and other students suffer corresponding tuition increases. This perpetuates a system where students who have yet to realize the extent of their financial nightmare subsidize those actually have a realistic chance of paying their loans back after graduation.

Ask your roommate about the people who graduated in the middle of her class. How are they doing after graduation?

So do you think McGeorge is pretty much a fraud as well?

[lsbm3]

Golden Gate University School of Law is probably the worst law school there is today. The morale of the staff is very low translating to poor relations and services to the student body. The school policies toward grading and disqualifications are unjust. GGU admits students knowing that they are going to fail at least 1/3 of them in the first year and more in the latter years. At this time, GGU is on probation with the American Bar Association. GGU only wants to graduate students who they think will pass the bar. The catch though is that they also want to generate revenue which means admitting a huge body of students to pay their expensive tuition of $1,030 per unit plus the fees. So, GGU place the onus of its bar passage rate on the students instead of its inability to design programs that will help prepare the students prepare for the bar exam. There is no doubt that the bar exam in California is probably the most difficult exams in the country. Majority of law schools have instituted classes that train students starting their first year to prepare for exams, especially the bar exam -- GGU does not do this, however. Instead, it imposes an exam curve that is designed to fail 1/3 of the class. So that while it may start off with 250 students for first year by the time this particular class graduates, there would only be 60 to take the bar exam and maybe 45 will pass. GGU does not see itself as the source of the faiure. It sees and treats students as the source of their failure. This result in financial disasters, broken dreams and broken ambitions for a vast amount of students.

There was a time when GGU Law School was a good one -- not at this time, however. It is best that students looking for a good law school steer clear of GGU Law School until it finds its way.

reasoning flaw 101
your assumption is that GGU fails it students which is why so many don't even get to the bar exam meanwhile it could really be the students who are not serious, committed or hardowrking enough to make it happen. after all GGU accepts students with low credentials that would not otherwise be accepted elsewhere. It is a possibility that many lazy &unmotivated students drag the school down.

[nealric]

And no school guarantees you a job.

Yale pretty much does. I challenge you to find an out of work Yale law grad.

Yes. If you believe that your life is about graduating law school at 25, getting a job at a top fim paying you $160,000 and working into your 30's and 40's hoping to make partner by your 50's and then end up having a major coronary by age 57, then GGU is probably not for you. On the other hand if you wish to get a solid legal education GGU may be a good option.

Lol- you do realize that partnership track at big firms is 7-10 years? Nobody is struggling through their 40s to make partner. Assuming the straight through college route, if you don't make it by 35 or so, you generally lateral to a smaller firm where you can or go in house.

In any event, a solid legal education is not very hard to provide. I can get a solid legal education for $1,000 worth of books from amazon.com. Job opportunities, on the other hand, are a much more difficult thing.

[TTTTT]

reasoning flaw 101
your assumption is that GGU fails it students which is why so many don't even get to the bar exam meanwhile it could really be the students who are not serious, committed or hardowrking enough to make it happen. after all GGU accepts students with low credentials that would not otherwise be accepted elsewhere. It is a possibility that many lazy &unmotivated students drag the school down.

The fact that the university is willing to accept lazy and unmotivated students speaks volumes.

When good schools receive applications from sub-par applicants they reject them. They don't take a years worth of tuition then fail them out.

[csc2law]

The fact that the university is willing to accept lazy and unmotivated students speaks volumes.

When good schools receive applications from sub-par applicants they reject them. They don't take a years worth of tuition then fail them out.

To be fair, that's pretty well in line with the school's history, which has been to take a chance on nontraditional students who wouldn't otherwise have the opportunity. They're taking a chance on people, which sometimes works out, sometimes doesn't, and certainly doesn't help USNWR ratings or accreditation metrics...

[Great Satchmo]

Let's up this post for anyone who goes/graduated from GGU.

I am in with essentially full scholarship and the honors lawyering program, curious to hear about the school/program as a least-debt option.

[littlepiggie818]

Let's up this post for anyone who goes/graduated from GGU.

I am in with essentially full scholarship and the honors lawyering program, curious to hear about the school/program as a least-debt option.

I am interested in this as well. Any opinion out there?

[Great Satchmo]

I *think* I e-mailed GGU asking to speak with a recent alumni (I did at other schools, but I can't recall) - anyhow, I got an e-mail from an alumni asking if I had any questions...

...however, he is at the admissions office 3 days a week for 6 hours a day, and the number to call is the admissions office.

I feel like this is kind of weird. If I wanted to talk to someone at the school, I'd talk to a professor or someone in admissions. I want to talk to a graduate who is out and has not vested interest, beyond being an alumnus.

[littlepiggie818]

I got a call from GGU as well from someone who is currently attending the school and she was willing to answer any questions that I may have, but she does work in the admission office. I agree with you that it is strange for the person to work in the admission office to answer questions and get paid for it. I just want someone who will not try to sell me the program.

[greengirl10]

Let's up this post for anyone who goes/graduated from GGU.

I am in with essentially full scholarship and the honors lawyering program, curious to hear about the school/program as a least-debt option.

I'd also like to hear (read) someone weigh in on this. I've got the same situation. Is a free "toilet" better than an expensive one (if, of course, you're only considering Tier 3/4 schools)?

[im_blue]

If you believe that your life is about graduating law school at 25, getting a job at a top fim paying you $160,000 and working into your 30's and 40's hoping to make partner by your 50's and then end up having a major coronary by age 57, then GGU is probably not for you. On the other hand if you aren't looking for a job and just wish to get a solid legal education GGU may be a good option.

FTFY

[bass08]

I live in San Francisco and honestly although some GGU law grads can get jobs, I would not even go there on a full ride. A couple things:

1) there are so many law schools in California and Northern California, GGU being one of the lowest ranked. It also is saddled with a bad bar passage rate, among other negative aspects.

2) COL in SF is extremely high. Even if you have a full ride you'll most likely still end up $75k+ish in debt for 3 years of living there without working.

[nahgems]

1. GGU is accommodating. I was recently speaking with a (successful) GGU alumni. She told me she chose GGU because it was the only school in the area that would allow her to attend part-time during the day. While there are three part-time programs in the bay area GGU definitely seems to be the most flexible program for working professionals.
2. GGU can be inexpensive. Previous posters have mentioned that “If an applicant is interested in public interest law, and she is admitted to, let's say, NYU and Boalt, or even to Hastings, you're saying she should still consider Golden Gate as "one of [her] top schools"? Seriously?). If an applicant can attend Hastings s/he can most likely attend GGU for free. While some applicants can take the 120k (or more) debt risk to attend Hastings at sticker price, other (non-traditional) applicants have other responsibilities. Not everyone can take that gamble. Working full-time while attending law school part-time for free is a valid option for some students.
3. GGU can provide opportunities. I’m not a brain scientist or a rocket surgeon. If I had studied hard and increased my LSAT by a few points I might have been able to go to Boalt. I never never have been able to go to HYS. I could have gone to Hastings, but would have had a *lot* of debt, and still would have been graduating from a non-T14 school. I probably would have been somewhere near the middle or bottom of the class. Maybe that means I shouldn’t go to law school at all. But at GGU I’m at the top of my class. When there are brunches with influential alumni, and I get invited. I’ll be on law review. Professors have actually offered to help me get summer internships. I’m not convinced that being at the top of my GGU class will be worse than being at the middle / bottom of my Hastings class would have been. I’m fairly certain that being a GGU rockstar is better than being mediocre at USF/Santa Clara.
4. The quality of education isn’t bad. Two of the professors I have this semester have also taught at Boalt. One teaches at Hastings. The material is the same. The professors are the same. The classes are probably a little slower because the students are a little slower. But if you do the work, you are learning the same material from the same professors as the T1 kids.
5. Students actually care. I’ll admit it. I’ve met one or two of my peers who actually believe they are going on to big law. The majority of my peers fully understand what opportunities GGU presents. And they are OK with that. They aren’t going to law school because they want big money. They are going to law school because they want to have a positive impact on the world (however limited it may be). And that is refreshing.

Are there reasons NOT to go to GGU? Definitely. If you want to do Big Law, you probably shouldn’t go to GGU. You should seriously consider you options if you are below the median LSAT/GPA, you didn’t get a scholarship and you know school is difficult for you. If you ever want to be in academia, you should probably go elsewhere. If you are the kind of person that cares strongly that some other people will scoff at your degree, you should go elsewhere. If you kick puppies you should probably go elsewhere. For certain students who are seeking an accommodating, inexpensive program that will provide them with a solid legal background, GGU may be a good choice.

[momo_08]

1. GGU is accommodating. I was recently speaking with a (successful) GGU alumni. She told me she chose GGU because it was the only school in the area that would allow her to attend part-time during the day. While there are three part-time programs in the bay area GGU definitely seems to be the most flexible program for working professionals.
2. GGU can be inexpensive. Previous posters have mentioned that “If an applicant is interested in public interest law, and she is admitted to, let's say, NYU and Boalt, or even to Hastings, you're saying she should still consider Golden Gate as "one of [her] top schools"? Seriously?). If an applicant can attend Hastings s/he can most likely attend GGU for free. While some applicants can take the 120k (or more) debt risk to attend Hastings at sticker price, other (non-traditional) applicants have other responsibilities. Not everyone can take that gamble. Working full-time while attending law school part-time for free is a valid option for some students.
3. GGU can provide opportunities. I’m not a brain scientist or a rocket surgeon. If I had studied hard and increased my LSAT by a few points I might have been able to go to Boalt. I never never have been able to go to HYS. I could have gone to Hastings, but would have had a *lot* of debt, and still would have been graduating from a non-T14 school. I probably would have been somewhere near the middle or bottom of the class. Maybe that means I shouldn’t go to law school at all. But at GGU I’m at the top of my class. When there are brunches with influential alumni, and I get invited. I’ll be on law review. Professors have actually offered to help me get summer internships. I’m not convinced that being at the top of my GGU class will be worse than being at the middle / bottom of my Hastings class would have been. I’m fairly certain that being a GGU rockstar is better than being mediocre at USF/Santa Clara.
4. The quality of education isn’t bad. Two of the professors I have this semester have also taught at Boalt. One teaches at Hastings. The material is the same. The professors are the same. The classes are probably a little slower because the students are a little slower. But if you do the work, you are learning the same material from the same professors as the T1 kids.
5. Students actually care. I’ll admit it. I’ve met one or two of my peers who actually believe they are going on to big law. The majority of my peers fully understand what opportunities GGU presents. And they are OK with that. They aren’t going to law school because they want big money. They are going to law school because they want to have a positive impact on the world (however limited it may be). And that is refreshing.

Are there reasons NOT to go to GGU? Definitely. If you want to do Big Law, you probably shouldn’t go to GGU. You should seriously consider you options if you are below the median LSAT/GPA, you didn’t get a scholarship and you know school is difficult for you. If you ever want to be in academia, you should probably go elsewhere. If you are the kind of person that cares strongly that some other people will scoff at your degree, you should go elsewhere. If you kick puppies you should probably go elsewhere. For certain students who are seeking an accommodating, inexpensive program that will provide them with a solid legal background, GGU may be a good choice.

brain SCIENTIST or rocket SURGEON???!!!

[PosJosh]

Need a little advice on accepting my seat at GGU. Most of the posts here are not encouraging. Here is my situation...

I got into GGU last month, was accepted into the Environmental Law Scholars program, and received a $75k scholarship. I have military benefits (GI Bill) to pay for the remainder of my tuition, books, and rent. So, I plan on graduating virtually debt free.

My career goal is to work for an environmental NGO or government agency. Seeing as how I will have zero debt, my starting salary is not really a big deal to me. I just want to make sure I have a chance to get with an organization that will give me the opportunity to do good work.

Anyway, considering all of this, is GGU still a bad choice? I have been waitlisted at a couple of better schools (Catholic, Loyola-NOLA, Vermont) however, if accepted, they will not provide me with a scholarship.

Advice please. Thanks for reading.

[yo!]

Need a little advice on accepting my seat at GGU. Most of the posts here are not encouraging. Here is my situation...

I got into GGU last month, was accepted into the Environmental Law Scholars program, and received a $75k scholarship. I have military benefits (GI Bill) to pay for the remainder of my tuition, books, and rent. So, I plan on graduating virtually debt free.

My career goal is to work for an environmental NGO or government agency. Seeing as how I will have zero debt, my starting salary is not really a big deal to me. I just want to make sure I have a chance to get with an organization that will give me the opportunity to do good work.

Anyway, considering all of this, is GGU still a bad choice? I have been waitlisted at a couple of better schools (Catholic, Loyola-NOLA, Vermont) however, if accepted, they will not provide me with a scholarship.

Advice please. Thanks for reading.

What are the stipulations on the GGU scholarship? If you can actually graduate with no debt, GGU may be a decent option. If you are hell bent on law school and do not want to retake the LSAT, you should probably take the money at GGU rather than paying for schools that aren't much better.

[itforthat]

Ok. I guess I shouldn't have applied to GGU...
Though their HLP sounded really good.
But what do I know.

[Mickey Quicknumbers]

I like how this thread has averaged about a post every month for the last 2 and half years.