Catholic University Columbus School of Law Forum

[AbsolutLax]

wow that sounds awful

[nativedelta]

Yep, Iwanttogofishing, I absolutely feel your pain firsthand. I'll tell you something else that bothers me at Catholic. They sell this "collegial, community environment" idea for all it's worth, but I just don't see it. I find the student body typically rude, competitive, and self-absorbed--what I would expect at any law school. There are some shining teachers who really do embody that idea, but they are the exceptions. The administration is the exact opposite of the philosophy. They rival the customer dis-service people at Marlo Furniture for misdirection, patronism, and pure apathy.

I just got my grades yesterday, and based on those will be trying to transfer. Unfortunately CUA won't release class ranks until mid-July which means my GMU transfer app will have to be incomplete. I hope they will grant an exception when they learn the school just doesn't release the information in time for the July 1st deadline.

I have talked to several GMU students I'm interning with, and they have terrible things to say about their writing program as well--which is 4 semesters long. UG.

I agree 100% about the lead harpy of the LSP Hens. Absolutely plays favorites, and our professor was her best buddy. When she decided to set our class's curve at a 2.79 instead of LSP's bumped 3.0-3.3, the head harpy backed her up and the administration let her do it, resigning 4 students to a D or F.

Office of Career Development is a total joke. We mentioned the minority fair only business to Dean Miles who decided it was a "marketing problem" and made sure that we knew even if something is advertised as minority only, all students should feel free to attend. Super. That was intuitive. Also, if it's a minority fair, I'm guessing they're not looking for me, so I'm showing up for the crappy food at that point.

When I went to the Career people to ask about help to get my judicial internship, they looked at my resume for 2 minutes, said it was perfect as it was (RIGHT!) and pointed me to a shelf with a 2,000 page book of all the judges in the country. Thanks. Then I got an email last week from the woman who pointed to the book saying she was leaving CUA but that since she had given me "extensive assistance" she wanted me to know she would be leaving. What are they smoking?

I'm betting they're going to be impossible about getting my letter of certification from the Dean. I will be astonished if I actually make the July 1st deadline for my applications.

[debbiestevens]

Yep, Iwanttogofishing, I absolutely feel your pain firsthand. I'll tell you something else that bothers me at Catholic. They sell this "collegial, community environment" idea for all it's worth, but I just don't see it. I find the student body typically rude, competitive, and self-absorbed--what I would expect at any law school. There are some shining teachers who really do embody that idea, but they are the exceptions. The administration is the exact opposite of the philosophy. They rival the customer dis-service people at Marlo Furniture for misdirection, patronism, and pure apathy.

I just got my grades yesterday, and based on those will be trying to transfer. Unfortunately CUA won't release class ranks until mid-July which means my GMU transfer app will have to be incomplete. I hope they will grant an exception when they learn the school just doesn't release the information in time for the July 1st deadline.

I have talked to several GMU students I'm interning with, and they have terrible things to say about their writing program as well--which is 4 semesters long. UG.

I agree 100% about the lead harpy of the LSP Hens. Absolutely plays favorites, and our professor was her best buddy. When she decided to set our class's curve at a 2.79 instead of LSP's bumped 3.0-3.3, the head harpy backed her up and the administration let her do it, resigning 4 students to a D or F.

Office of Career Development is a total joke. We mentioned the minority fair only business to Dean Miles who decided it was a "marketing problem" and made sure that we knew even if something is advertised as minority only, all students should feel free to attend. Super. That was intuitive. Also, if it's a minority fair, I'm guessing they're not looking for me, so I'm showing up for the crappy food at that point.

When I went to the Career people to ask about help to get my judicial internship, they looked at my resume for 2 minutes, said it was perfect as it was (RIGHT!) and pointed me to a shelf with a 2,000 page book of all the judges in the country. Thanks. Then I got an email last week from the woman who pointed to the book saying she was leaving CUA but that since she had given me "extensive assistance" she wanted me to know she would be leaving. What are they smoking?

I'm betting they're going to be impossible about getting my letter of certification from the Dean. I will be astonished if I actually make the July 1st deadline for my applications.

career services is that bad at Catholic?

[nativedelta]

It was that bad for me, and I went early when no one else was even thinking about jobs yet. I had a friend who waited until March, and she had to wait 2 weeks for an equally worthless appointment.

I hear from 2Ls and 3Ls that it only gets worse for finding real jobs.

[IwanaGoFishing]

nativedelta - I'm assuming your a day student. I've heard bad things about the attitude of many students. Fortunately, it's a bit more professional and friendly in the evening program.

You're right, certain professors are incredible and bring wonderful real world experience to the class room, helping both to show application of law and to motivate. Others are examples of the fact that "those that cannot DO teach."

Here it is 6/12 and I still don't have my grades. Some level of service...

debbiestevens - Yes, it is really that bad. They can't even proof read the subject lines of their school wide e-mails (see my previous post), let alone your resume or cover letter.

I'm still blown away by the minority only workshops and career fairs.

[debbiestevens]

What did they tell you guys when you went to complain? Is there a way to complain to the ABA?

[howardsbest]

I am a minority and I am waitlisted for Catholic. There is nothing wrong with a minority career fair. When minorities go the career fair for the whole law school. Most of those firms arent looking for minorities. Dont believe me. Just look at the applicant pool and the people picked for the position.

Every law school has its problems.

If you are worried about the curve being so low don't be at the bottom.

Survival of the fittest.

Granted Catholic does have a lot, but as a lawyer your main skill is analyzing and improvising. If you are in litigation and your losing are you going to complain to the judge about the other sides "unfair tactics" no your going to create a new strategy.

Get to it. Students that attend Catholic there are people who would love to be where you are. So make the most of it.

[Advocate]

Please don't be scared away by the bad experiences of people who have done poorly. They suggest that you will be a failure just because they are. Honestly, those of you who earned D's or F's must be really awful if the writing professor actually went to the extreme of asking the administration to lower the mandatory curve for your class.

I'm a rising 3L at CUA. I'm near the top of the class. I have had great internships. Don't mind the bottom feeders, just try to be in the top half of the class, and you should be just fine. Also, the GPA curve is totally irrelevant. Class rank is the only thing that matters. Do you really think employers are so stupid as to not realize that GPA is only meaningful for comparing students at the same school?

[IwanaGoFishing]

I have better than a 3.7 GPA so I hardly think you could classify me as a bottom feeder. There's no problem with "minority" job fairs, workshops, etc. However, when all activities are advertised as "minority," that IS an issue.

Another issue that just came to mind is the fact that some sections of LSP use blind grading while others do not. Again, allowing for bias and unfair grading practices aka playing favorites.

The previous poster's comment regarding the curve and class rank is only partially accurate. While class rank does serve to offset the differing curve between institutions, it does nothing for firms, agencies, etc. that state you must have a 3.0 or 3.X GPA to interview or be considered.

If CUA has a 2.8 curve and another school has a 3.0 curve, you're going to have to work harder for that 3.0.

Oh and cut it out with that survival of the fittest BS. I'm at the top of my class. My concern is for my friends and other students. If you paid any attention to your Social Justice class, you'd have learned that there's more to life than your own success. As a human, you have a duty to watch out for others and prevent injustice...

[IwanaGoFishing]

I am a minority and I am waitlisted for Catholic. There is nothing wrong with a minority career fair. When minorities go the career fair for the whole law school. Most of those firms arent looking for minorities. Dont believe me. Just look at the applicant pool and the people picked for the position.

Every law school has its problems.

If you are worried about the curve being so low don't be at the bottom.

Survival of the fittest.

Granted Catholic does have a lot, but as a lawyer your main skill is analyzing and improvising. If you are in litigation and your losing are you going to complain to the judge about the other sides "unfair tactics" no your going to create a new strategy.

Get to it. Students that attend Catholic there are people who would love to be where you are. So make the most of it.

Not to be a snob, but I hope the grammar in your writing sample was better than your posting on here...

You should also spend some time on your reading comprehension skills. The issue here isn't that CUA held A "minority" event, it's that seemingly ALL events are "minority" events.

Also, let's not use race as a crutch. Doing so only undermines your dignity and achievements.

[bohogurl]

So what you're saying is Catholic markets its students based on their race rather than their abilities?

[IwanaGoFishing]

So what you're saying is Catholic markets its students based on their race rather than their abilities?

Not sure that they necessarily market their students based on race, though they certainly market, through mass e-mails, their recruiting events and workshops to minority groups as opposed to the student body at large. This is discriminatory.

If I were a minority, I would read these e-mails as an insult to say, "we know you're not as competitive as your peers so here's a special opportunity just for you with reduced competition." If we're all equal why do minorities need special events with reduced competition? Does CUA think that all of the other hiring firms are going to discriminate against minorities in such a fashion that they needed this increased protection and additional opportunities?

The ability and credentials of job candidates should be evaluated, not the color of their skin.

[howardsbest]

The issue is that Catholic markets to minorities sir. At least for you it seems to be.

Would you have the same problem if the career fair said only the top 25% of students could attend?

I am not using race as a crutch I am simply stating facts. It is sad that you cannot see that racism and prejudice still exist in America and the world at large.

If you would like to get technical you did not make a valid argument. Focusing on my grammatical miscues is not an argument.

The fact remains that there are still minorities in all of higher education. If the school accepted an equal representation of races than you wouldn't need a minority career fair?

The real issue is why do u have a problem with a career fair for minorities?

I have looked at the career services website for Catholic and I don't see a minorities section there.

[howardsbest]

So what you're saying is Catholic markets its students based on their race rather than their abilities?

Not sure that they necessarily market their students based on race, though they certainly market, through mass e-mails, their recruiting events and workshops to minority groups as opposed to the student body at large. This is discriminatory.

If I were a minority, I would read these e-mails as an insult to say, "we know you're not as competitive as your peers so here's a special opportunity just for you with reduced competition." If we're all equal why do minorities need special events with reduced competition? Does CUA think that all of the other hiring firms are going to discriminate against minorities in such a fashion that they needed this increased protection and additional opportunities?

The ability and credentials of job candidates should be evaluated, not the color of their skin.

Have you been to law firm?

The fact that you say its reduced competition is truly a shame.

You assume that because the dominant Caucasian population is not at a career fair their isn't as much competition?

Essentially the competition is harder. The applicant pool is smaller and therefore more selective. You can't use the race card at a minority event, its based on pure ability and race is taken out of the equation.

[hoffb86]

annnnnnd suddenly this becomes an Affirmative Action thread....

[A'nold]

Haha. We have one incoherent rambling ESL student who's first language is actually english and another person trolling with their first post for CUA (hmmm.....I wonder if it's an adcom? ) People should believe Iwannagofishing and nativedelta as they both have firsthand experience and use actual specific examples, not made up generalities (crap) from adcoms. The end.

[Advocate]

You should be happy about the minority career fairs. At least someone from CUA gets invited to career fairs. Those career fairs are run by various big firms that are looking for minority students. Should the school not market those events? Plain (vanilla if you like) career fairs are very rare -- especially for 2nd tier law schools. Biglaw recruiting is generally done through OCI. The minority job fairs are something of an exception. I'm glad that some of my classmates might score a good position that way. That helps improve the school's prestige. Anyway, if you don't like diversity programs or affirmative action, you still shouldn't blame the school for taking advantage of such opportunities for those students who can benefit from it. By the way, previous poster, I am student (not an administrator).

[thuggishruggishbone]

?--how Catholic is Catholic U.? Is it full of religious nutjobs or is it more along the lines of a Georgetown (Catholic in name only).

[wdd440]

I went to undergrad at Catholic, and you definitiely dont have to be "super catholic/religious." You definitely have the opportunity to be, but I wasnt and I would say that the majority of the students were like me. I think that it is what you make it. if you dont want to be religious, you dont have to be...at least that was my experience and i think most would agree with me.

[hoffb86]

?--how Catholic is Catholic U.? Is it full of religious nutjobs or is it more along the lines of a Georgetown (Catholic in name only).

I would say it is somewhere in between.

[nativedelta]

The religious aspect is there, but it's more of a welcoming vibe than an in-your-face conversion one. They have their mass in the chapel; they take major Catholic Feast days off; and there are crucifixes in every classroom, but if, like me, you don't want any part of religion, it's not enough to make you feel uncomfortable.

Honestly, I felt more attacked in my Southern Bible Belt high school for my lack of faith than I ever have at Catholic. It's very friendly and accepting in that way....and Father Bob is adorable.

[AverageGuy]

Is there anything good about Catholic? Anything?

[Advocate]

Is there anything good about Catholic? Anything?

Withdrew from Denver and Seton Hall WL. Came off a hold and was admitted to Miami, but withdrew.
Still on Catholic, SUNY and Villanova WLs. Will probably withdraw from Catholic's WL.

Are you hostile to the school because you weren't a good enough applicant to be accepted right out, and only made the wait list? How cute!

[AverageGuy]

Hostile? Huh? You have a problem with people on waitlists asking questions? I'm asking what's good about the school, to get information to balance the negative info from native and wanagofishing! So, what's good about the school! Need to know asap! And yes, I am very, very cute.

[hoffb86]

Hostile? Huh? You have a problem with people on waitlists asking questions? I'm asking what's good about the school, to get information to balance the negative info from native and wanagofishing! So, what's good about the school! Need to know asap! And yes, I am very, very cute.

I have a friend who is there, just finished her 1L, and really enjoyed it. In fact, she begged me to choose it over Maryland. She is at the top of her class, Jewish (and doesn't find the religious thing bothersome), and a real smart girl. She got a good summer job part time interning for a DC superior court judge, and then also works part time for a bar review course, and does research with a professor. She likely had the option to transfer to many higher ranked schools, but chose to stay at catholic for the $$ they give you to entice you to stay (if at top of class) and then the fact that she is happy there, has a smart group of friends, and loves being in DC. I think she is realistic of her job prospects, but there are jobs in DC, Va., and Md. beyond biglaw, and she is comfortable with that. The US Govt also hires catholic alumni. I have heard that the alumni who have "made it" in DC, do their best to bring in the best students from Catholic. You can get a shot coming out of Catholic, and you can make a career coming out.

Hope that serves as something positive for you to consider.

As I hinted at before, I chose U. Maryland over a fairly large scholarship at Catholic. But, I enjoyed my visit to Catholic and thought I would be comfortable going there. I just determined that Maryland would give me the best opportunities to reach my goals.

Good luck.