Finding "student edition" Restatements (Torts, Contracts) Forum

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tax_nerd

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Finding "student edition" Restatements (Torts, Contracts)

Post by tax_nerd » Tue Mar 09, 2021 1:25 pm

I am working through a 0L reading list analogous to those recommended in Planet Law School, but there are certain texts I can't find.

_Restatement of Contracts - Student edition - Pamphlets 1-3
_Restatement of Torts - Student edition - Pamphlets 1-3

I can only find ancient-seeming versions on Amazon that are really expensive. Are these still in print? I understand that PLS is outdated in some ways, and am wondering if this is one of them. If these are still relevant for law students, can someone explain how to get my hands on them?

If these are not what law students use, can someone point me to the right thing? I see that the ALI currently sells "A concise restatement of torts, third edition" and George/Korobkin put out "Selections from the restatement (second) of contracts and uniform commercial code for first-year contracts." Are these the modern correlates to the "student edition restatements"? I tend to doubt this because I have already found things missing from the George/Korobkin which I feel is important, like about Territorial Applicability 1-301.. the rule is just not included.

Any help appreciated!

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cavalier1138

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Re: Finding "student edition" Restatements (Torts, Contracts)

Post by cavalier1138 » Tue Mar 09, 2021 1:50 pm

I've never heard of a "student edition" Restatement. I'm sure that people publish "selections" from the Restatements geared towards students, but those would be heavily professor-specific.

That said, I can still help:
tax_nerd wrote:
Tue Mar 09, 2021 1:25 pm
I am working through a 0L reading list
Stop. I have no idea what sadist told you to read things like Restatements before law school. It's not "outdated" advice; it's just a really, really bad idea. There is no benefit to "0L Prep."

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Re: Finding "student edition" Restatements (Torts, Contracts)

Post by tax_nerd » Tue Mar 09, 2021 2:15 pm

cavalier1138 wrote:
Tue Mar 09, 2021 1:50 pm
I've never heard of a "student edition" Restatement. I'm sure that people publish "selections" from the Restatements geared towards students, but those would be heavily professor-specific.

That said, I can still help:
tax_nerd wrote:
Tue Mar 09, 2021 1:25 pm
I am working through a 0L reading list
Stop. I have no idea what sadist told you to read things like Restatements before law school. It's not "outdated" advice; it's just a really, really bad idea. There is no benefit to "0L Prep."
I understand that your perspective is held by a lot of people with a lot of experience with law school and helping students be successful. That said, the view that "0L Prep" can be helpful is also held by numerous experts, including the overwhelming majority of the guides posted at TLS' own page called "TLS Collected Wisdom on Success in Law School." (viewtopic.php?f=3&t=123092) The authors of the guides included there share the credential (which I'm sure you also share) of having been very successful at very rigorous law schools.

I don't discredit your perspective, which I imagine is supported by wealth of wisdom, experience, and success. But for posterity, I wouldn't want a 0L to read this thread and get the impression that yours is the only one. Having just finished a PhD, I know my slow, deep learning style, and I suspect that spending the next 6 months pre-reading Examples & Explanations and doing hypotheticals qua Delaney is a good idea for me. I am willing to risk wasting 6 months for the possibility of being correct and setting myself up for success.

nixy

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Re: Finding "student edition" Restatements (Torts, Contracts)

Post by nixy » Tue Mar 09, 2021 2:26 pm

It’s really not worth it. A JD is nothing like a PhD and the sooner you can distinguish them, the better off you’ll be. And PLS, apart from being outdated (and it REALLY is) is a terrible fear-mongering agenda-pressing book that should be ignored.

In any case, reading the restatements is not at all helpful before law school. It’s rarely helpful during law school (and to the extent it is, you can tailor it to the class you’re taking).

The biggest issue is that law school doesn’t reward some kind of deep PhD-level knowledge of law. It rewards knowing what your professor wants to see on exams, and you can’t know that until you get to class.

Also keep in mind the people who excelled in law school after doing prep would almost undoubtedly have excelled without doing that prep. It isn’t going to give you an edge.

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Re: Finding "student edition" Restatements (Torts, Contracts)

Post by tax_nerd » Tue Mar 09, 2021 2:41 pm

nixy wrote:
Tue Mar 09, 2021 2:26 pm
It’s really not worth it. A JD is nothing like a PhD and the sooner you can distinguish them, the better off you’ll be. And PLS, apart from being outdated (and it REALLY is) is a terrible fear-mongering agenda-pressing book that should be ignored.

In any case, reading the restatements is not at all helpful before law school. It’s rarely helpful during law school (and to the extent it is, you can tailor it to the class you’re taking).

The biggest issue is that law school doesn’t reward some kind of deep PhD-level knowledge of law. It rewards knowing what your professor wants to see on exams, and you can’t know that until you get to class.

Also keep in mind the people who excelled in law school after doing prep would almost undoubtedly have excelled without doing that prep. It isn’t going to give you an edge.
I value your input. Please trust me when I say that I have done plenty of research on both sides of this issue and have taken many well-reasoned points into consideration before making my decision. This thread was not intended to be a debate on that topic, which has been argued much more thoroughly (including the views you are representing) elsewhere.

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nixy

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Re: Finding "student edition" Restatements (Torts, Contracts)

Post by nixy » Tue Mar 09, 2021 2:48 pm

Then FWIW, I’ve never heard of or seen student editions of the restatements, and suspect they are obsolete.

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cavalier1138

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Re: Finding "student edition" Restatements (Torts, Contracts)

Post by cavalier1138 » Tue Mar 09, 2021 4:02 pm

tax_nerd wrote:
Tue Mar 09, 2021 2:41 pm
nixy wrote:
Tue Mar 09, 2021 2:26 pm
It’s really not worth it. A JD is nothing like a PhD and the sooner you can distinguish them, the better off you’ll be. And PLS, apart from being outdated (and it REALLY is) is a terrible fear-mongering agenda-pressing book that should be ignored.

In any case, reading the restatements is not at all helpful before law school. It’s rarely helpful during law school (and to the extent it is, you can tailor it to the class you’re taking).

The biggest issue is that law school doesn’t reward some kind of deep PhD-level knowledge of law. It rewards knowing what your professor wants to see on exams, and you can’t know that until you get to class.

Also keep in mind the people who excelled in law school after doing prep would almost undoubtedly have excelled without doing that prep. It isn’t going to give you an edge.
I value your input. Please trust me when I say that I have done plenty of research on both sides of this issue and have taken many well-reasoned points into consideration before making my decision. This thread was not intended to be a debate on that topic, which has been argued much more thoroughly (including the views you are representing) elsewhere.
I mean, even accepting your broad argument that 0L prep is somehow useful, I've never heard anyone recommend reading Restatements before attending school. And I can think of two really good reasons that Restatements would be useless, even for someone who thinks that this kind of prep is helpful:

-You don't know what you're reading. I don't mean that you don't comprehend the words on the page, but I can promise with relative certainty that you don't understand the significance/utility of Restatements. Most 1Ls don't even figure that out until after exams, even though they've been sitting with the things for a semester at that point. [Subpoint: There are actually two applicable Restatements for Torts, and they conflict.]
-They're extremely long and dense. At least 90% of the Restatement will not be relevant (really, not at all) to any given class. The portions that are relevant will also vary quite significantly, depending on your specific professor's approach to the subject.

ETA: I also strongly suggest re-reading the thread you linked above. If you go to the individual guides, none of the people who did well at T13 schools recommend 0L prep, and at least one actively advises against it. So if there are differing opinions, they are from people who excelled at lower-ranked schools (where you will not be going, based on your prior posts).

tax_nerd

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Re: Finding "student edition" Restatements (Torts, Contracts)

Post by tax_nerd » Tue Mar 09, 2021 4:16 pm

cavalier1138 wrote:
Tue Mar 09, 2021 4:02 pm
tax_nerd wrote:
Tue Mar 09, 2021 2:41 pm
nixy wrote:
Tue Mar 09, 2021 2:26 pm
It’s really not worth it. A JD is nothing like a PhD and the sooner you can distinguish them, the better off you’ll be. And PLS, apart from being outdated (and it REALLY is) is a terrible fear-mongering agenda-pressing book that should be ignored.

In any case, reading the restatements is not at all helpful before law school. It’s rarely helpful during law school (and to the extent it is, you can tailor it to the class you’re taking).

The biggest issue is that law school doesn’t reward some kind of deep PhD-level knowledge of law. It rewards knowing what your professor wants to see on exams, and you can’t know that until you get to class.

Also keep in mind the people who excelled in law school after doing prep would almost undoubtedly have excelled without doing that prep. It isn’t going to give you an edge.
I value your input. Please trust me when I say that I have done plenty of research on both sides of this issue and have taken many well-reasoned points into consideration before making my decision. This thread was not intended to be a debate on that topic, which has been argued much more thoroughly (including the views you are representing) elsewhere.
I mean, even accepting your broad argument that 0L prep is somehow useful, I've never heard anyone recommend reading Restatements before attending school. And I can think of two really good reasons that Restatements would be useless, even for someone who thinks that this kind of prep is helpful:

-You don't know what you're reading. I don't mean that you don't comprehend the words on the page, but I can promise with relative certainty that you don't understand the significance/utility of Restatements. Most 1Ls don't even figure that out until after exams, even though they've been sitting with the things for a semester at that point. [Subpoint: There are actually two applicable Restatements for Torts, and they conflict.]
-They're extremely long and dense. At least 90% of the Restatement will not be relevant (really, not at all) to any given class. The portions that are relevant will also vary quite significantly, depending on your specific professor's approach to the subject.

ETA: I also strongly suggest re-reading the thread you linked above. If you go to the individual guides, none of the people who did well at T13 schools recommend 0L prep, and at least one actively advises against it. So if there are differing opinions, they are from people who excelled at lower-ranked schools (where you will not be going, based on your prior posts).
You have incorrectly assumed that my intention is to read the Restatements cover to cover. Of course not. I am reading the E&Es and taking CALI lessons, and when there is a reference to a rule from the Restatement, I am including it in my notes. The student Restatements (remember, that is what I am looking for) allegedly contain additional hypotheticals after each major rule.

Plenty of the advice in the guides I linked to corroborates this approach. Of course I am not reading the Restatements cover to cover. That would be like reading a dictionary cover to cover.

nixy

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Re: Finding "student edition" Restatements (Torts, Contracts)

Post by nixy » Tue Mar 09, 2021 4:24 pm

I’m sure that the guides talk about the importance of hypotheticals in the sense of doing practice exams. But the most valuable resource for that is your individual prof’s past exams. Take torts, for example - I know of lots of profs who only cover intentional torts. Some only cover negligence. So doing these kinds of practice questions in a vacuum isn’t actually very helpful.

And when the guides say 0L prep isn’t helpful, they really mean 0L prep isn’t helpful. Not “0L prep isn’t helpful unless you extrapolate some kind of unstated method from what we actually say is helpful and do that for 0L prep.”

tax_nerd

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Re: Finding "student edition" Restatements (Torts, Contracts)

Post by tax_nerd » Tue Mar 09, 2021 4:37 pm

cavalier1138 wrote:
Tue Mar 09, 2021 4:02 pm
tax_nerd wrote:
Tue Mar 09, 2021 2:41 pm
nixy wrote:
Tue Mar 09, 2021 2:26 pm
It’s really not worth it. A JD is nothing like a PhD and the sooner you can distinguish them, the better off you’ll be. And PLS, apart from being outdated (and it REALLY is) is a terrible fear-mongering agenda-pressing book that should be ignored.

In any case, reading the restatements is not at all helpful before law school. It’s rarely helpful during law school (and to the extent it is, you can tailor it to the class you’re taking).

The biggest issue is that law school doesn’t reward some kind of deep PhD-level knowledge of law. It rewards knowing what your professor wants to see on exams, and you can’t know that until you get to class.

Also keep in mind the people who excelled in law school after doing prep would almost undoubtedly have excelled without doing that prep. It isn’t going to give you an edge.
I value your input. Please trust me when I say that I have done plenty of research on both sides of this issue and have taken many well-reasoned points into consideration before making my decision. This thread was not intended to be a debate on that topic, which has been argued much more thoroughly (including the views you are representing) elsewhere.
I mean, even accepting your broad argument that 0L prep is somehow useful, I've never heard anyone recommend reading Restatements before attending school. And I can think of two really good reasons that Restatements would be useless, even for someone who thinks that this kind of prep is helpful:

-You don't know what you're reading. I don't mean that you don't comprehend the words on the page, but I can promise with relative certainty that you don't understand the significance/utility of Restatements. Most 1Ls don't even figure that out until after exams, even though they've been sitting with the things for a semester at that point. [Subpoint: There are actually two applicable Restatements for Torts, and they conflict.]
-They're extremely long and dense. At least 90% of the Restatement will not be relevant (really, not at all) to any given class. The portions that are relevant will also vary quite significantly, depending on your specific professor's approach to the subject.

ETA: I also strongly suggest re-reading the thread you linked above. If you go to the individual guides, none of the people who did well at T13 schools recommend 0L prep, and at least one actively advises against it. So if there are differing opinions, they are from people who excelled at lower-ranked schools (where you will not be going, based on your prior posts).
Cavalier, I would delete this thread if I could, but I can't seem to figure out how to do it. Can you delete it for me as a moderator?

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