Curious about viability of Env. Law in Private Sector Forum

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Rippec697

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Curious about viability of Env. Law in Private Sector

Post by Rippec697 » Wed Feb 24, 2021 11:49 am

I'm currently deciding between two t-14 programs. One is expensive but more highly rated in env. law and overall, the other is cheaper and offers a concurrent degree program which may enhance my background in this field (I have limited prior experience in env. studies).

I'm also concerned about making money. How accessible is environmental law work in private firms, even big law? Is it possible to transition to PI from private practice, or vise versa?

Thanks
Last edited by cavalier1138 on Wed Feb 24, 2021 12:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Moved to appropriate form (0Ls cannot post in Legal Employment).

objctnyrhnr

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Re: Curious about viability of Env. Law in Private Sector

Post by objctnyrhnr » Wed Feb 24, 2021 12:18 pm

Are you sure that you want to do “environmental law” in the private sector? Oftentimes people who are really into the environment aren’t particularly into defending companies that harm it.

When the AGs office or something brings an action against a company for failure to abide by some sort of environmental-protection regulation, who do you think defends the company?

Just food for thought, on the chance you hadn’t already been thinking about this. I mention this because I had a similar exchange with a 1L recently and that 1L didn’t realize that advocating on behalf of the environment, regs, etc. is fairly inconsistent with working in the private sector.

Rippec697

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Re: Curious about viability of Env. Law in Private Sector

Post by Rippec697 » Wed Feb 24, 2021 12:34 pm

True. I guess I'm thinking about administrative law within public private interest firms/plaintiffs firms. How common is this type of work?

crazywafflez

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Re: Curious about viability of Env. Law in Private Sector

Post by crazywafflez » Wed Feb 24, 2021 4:30 pm

I'm woefully ignorant on env law practice (outside from ***some energy law stuff in the southeast). As far as the schools go though you can try and get the more expensive T14 to raise their scholly after showing them the other. If they won't, just go to the cheaper one unless you are comparing like Harvard to Cornell. The certificate or program for env law won't matter terribly; sometimes with schools that have clinics you can rub elbows with folks but I think you'll be able to just as easily snag the same job from UVA as you would from Duke for this kind of stuff.

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cavalier1138

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Re: Curious about viability of Env. Law in Private Sector

Post by cavalier1138 » Wed Feb 24, 2021 5:31 pm

Rippec697 wrote:
Wed Feb 24, 2021 12:34 pm
True. I guess I'm thinking about administrative law within public private interest firms/plaintiffs firms. How common is this type of work?
I think you need to be more clear about what kind of work you think is being done at these firms. Private firms are rarely in the business of simply litigating on behalf of the environment. Toxic tort litigation happens all the time, but I don't think you'll find it to be an ideologically pure field on either side...

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Wubbles

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Re: Curious about viability of Env. Law in Private Sector

Post by Wubbles » Wed Feb 24, 2021 6:30 pm

cavalier1138 wrote:
Wed Feb 24, 2021 5:31 pm
Rippec697 wrote:
Wed Feb 24, 2021 12:34 pm
True. I guess I'm thinking about administrative law within public private interest firms/plaintiffs firms. How common is this type of work?
I think you need to be more clear about what kind of work you think is being done at these firms. Private firms are rarely in the business of simply litigating on behalf of the environment. Toxic tort litigation happens all the time, but I don't think you'll find it to be an ideologically pure field on either side...
Plaintiff side environmental firms (outside of truly public interest firms that have the customary public interest pay) also tend to do a lot of NIMBY (Not In My BackYard) suits. Which is basically, you can pollute or dump chemicals into a creek, just not near my new condominium development.

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Pneumonia

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Re: Curious about viability of Env. Law in Private Sector

Post by Pneumonia » Wed Feb 24, 2021 8:23 pm

Enviro is certainly a viable Biglaw practice. The added credential you're talking about could be helpful getting your foot in the door, but not much more so than during an enviro clinic or otherwise showing interest while you are in law school. Enviro folks tend to be somewhat less concerned with school prestige, but that won't help you much in a screener interview.

It is possible to go from Biglaw to PI (Sierra Club, NRDC, etc.), but I have never seen it happen the other way around. There is also somewhat of a revolving door between Biglaw and bigfed/bigstate agencies, although that is more common at the partner level.

In a Biglaw setting, enviro work can be litigation, regulatory, or corporate (or some mix). Regulatory is the most common, and in the lit/corp you would typically play a support role (subject-matter expert in lit, or doing enviro diligence in corporate). The experience also varies depending on what media you are working with--air, water, species, contaminants, etc.

Sophisticated regulatory work most often entails advising clients what the applicable rules mean. Is such-and-such generator a mobile source? Is it within a power plant's fence line? How do you count emissions that it causes when being used in a support function vs. a primary function? What count as maintenance emissions? Etc. Sophisticated clients--the kind that pay biglaw rates--are looking to limit their regulatory exposure. They aren't trying to break or evade the rules; that entails to much risk.

Your job is to help them understand the rules. And the rules can get very, very, very, complicated: a continually evolving mix of statutes, rules, responses to comments, regulatory preambles, guidance documents, advisory letters, etc. Most of it buried on obscure websites or not accessible at all.

So, on one hand, you can take solace in the fact that very few (if any) of your clients are going to approach you with a question like "how can we evade this requirement?" That is more common at smaller companies--not international corporations. On the other, if you think the requirements are too lax, then helping some company comply with them could be a net negative in your view. So too writing or advocating for looser requirements or interpretations, which is another aspect of biglaw work.

Rippec697

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Re: Curious about viability of Env. Law in Private Sector

Post by Rippec697 » Wed Feb 24, 2021 8:32 pm

Really appreciate this, thank you.

stupididiot

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Re: Curious about viability of Env. Law in Private Sector

Post by stupididiot » Thu Feb 25, 2021 12:31 pm

Pneumonia wrote:
Wed Feb 24, 2021 8:23 pm
Enviro is certainly a viable Biglaw practice. The added credential you're talking about could be helpful getting your foot in the door, but not much more so than during an enviro clinic or otherwise showing interest while you are in law school. Enviro folks tend to be somewhat less concerned with school prestige, but that won't help you much in a screener interview.

It is possible to go from Biglaw to PI (Sierra Club, NRDC, etc.), but I have never seen it happen the other way around. There is also somewhat of a revolving door between Biglaw and bigfed/bigstate agencies, although that is more common at the partner level.

In a Biglaw setting, enviro work can be litigation, regulatory, or corporate (or some mix). Regulatory is the most common, and in the lit/corp you would typically play a support role (subject-matter expert in lit, or doing enviro diligence in corporate). The experience also varies depending on what media you are working with--air, water, species, contaminants, etc.

Sophisticated regulatory work most often entails advising clients what the applicable rules mean. Is such-and-such generator a mobile source? Is it within a power plant's fence line? How do you count emissions that it causes when being used in a support function vs. a primary function? What count as maintenance emissions? Etc. Sophisticated clients--the kind that pay biglaw rates--are looking to limit their regulatory exposure. They aren't trying to break or evade the rules; that entails to much risk.

Your job is to help them understand the rules. And the rules can get very, very, very, complicated: a continually evolving mix of statutes, rules, responses to comments, regulatory preambles, guidance documents, advisory letters, etc. Most of it buried on obscure websites or not accessible at all.

So, on one hand, you can take solace in the fact that very few (if any) of your clients are going to approach you with a question like "how can we evade this requirement?" That is more common at smaller companies--not international corporations. On the other, if you think the requirements are too lax, then helping some company comply with them could be a net negative in your view. So too writing or advocating for looser requirements or interpretations, which is another aspect of biglaw work.
so you often see regulatory practices mentioned in the "best" lifestyle practices (probably due to predictable hours) categories, but these usually call out financial regulatory or life science regulatory work. would environmental with a regulatory focus also fall into that category of predictable hours and limited all nighters as well?

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Pneumonia

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Re: Curious about viability of Env. Law in Private Sector

Post by Pneumonia » Thu Feb 25, 2021 3:55 pm

stupididiot wrote:
Thu Feb 25, 2021 12:31 pm
so you often see regulatory practices mentioned in the "best" lifestyle practices (probably due to predictable hours) categories, but these usually call out financial regulatory or life science regulatory work. would environmental with a regulatory focus also fall into that category of predictable hours and limited all nighters as well?
Typically, yes. Clients usually need answers within a matter of weeks, not hours. One exception is when some physical asset--a water treatment facility, a coal-fired power plant, etc.--does something it isn't supposed to (i.e., leaks). Then there are a bunch of crisis-response lawyers involved, including enviro folks, and those times can be pretty hectic. It can last a few hours or several weeks depending on the event. Another good example is the recent power outages in Texas. Those caused all kinds of regulatory issues. Or when a big storm hits the Northeast. The upside is that these kinds of things are exciting, and even fun, if you like the subject-matter. You aren't comma-checking. You are advising the client about the risks of various courses of action in real time, and they listen to what you say (as an associate, obviously, you will playing a support role to a partner who is actually giving advice).

I am not an enviro lawyer, btw, so take what I say with a grain of salt. I do work closely with them though. Those in the regulatory sphere seem to have very good work-life balance.

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