Top Law Schools

Hello,

I'm an incoming 1L at a Tier-11 school in NYC, St. John's. I've looked at the school's employment stats, which show that only the best students have a chance at getting hired by a Biglaw firm.

I was wondering: Aside from doing great on exams, what would you urge someone in my position to do to maximize their chances of getting hired in Biglaw?

Apologies if this has been addressed on here before.

Also, if it means anything, I'm a non-conventional applicant (I'm 27 and worked in PR/journalism after college).

In all honesty, your best shot at biglaw is to withdraw now, retake the LSAT, and reapply to schools that actually place people in biglaw.

At its peak, SJU has put <20% of its grads in biglaw. These next few years are not going to be peak hiring for anyone. So if your goal is getting biglaw, then don't go to SJU, because there is no magic trick to placing in the top 10% of your class.

If you have a full, unconditional scholarship and have goals that are reasonably attainable from SJU, then it might still make sense to go. But don't go in with the expectation of outperforming 90% of your classmates. There's a 90% chance you won't.

GuyinNY wrote: ↑

Thu Aug 13, 2020 10:45 pm

Hello,

I'm an incoming 1L at a Tier-11 school in NYC, St. John's. I've looked at the school's employment stats, which show that only the best students have a chance at getting hired by a Biglaw firm.

I was wondering: Aside from doing great on exams, what would you urge someone in my position to do to maximize their chances of getting hired in Biglaw?

Apologies if this has been addressed on here before.

Also, if it means anything, I'm a non-conventional applicant (I'm 27 and worked in PR/journalism after college).

I would urge you not to matriculate. Have you calculated your total cost of attendance, loan payments upon graduation, and likely starting salary? Just don’t go—especially in this economy, and especially via zoom.

All the information is out there if you seek it.

Thanks for these responses.To answer the question in the second post, my scholarship is nearly full and its conditions pretty much make it unlosable. I'm also staying with family, so it's unlikely that law school will put me in massive debt.

If Biglaw is out of the picture, what steps could someone in my position take to get the highest-paying job? For a Tier-2 student, in this economy, what would be the most renumerative area of the law to focus on?

Why don't you just retake the LSAT and go to a decent school?

GuyinNY wrote: ↑

Fri Aug 14, 2020 9:30 am

If Biglaw is out of the picture, what steps could someone in my position take to get the highest-paying job?

Drop out of law school and spend those three years getting really good at either writing code or sales depending on your personality

I'm not trying to be snarky. That's genuinely your clearest path to financial success here.

Pomeranian wrote: ↑

Fri Aug 14, 2020 10:03 am

Why don't you just retake the LSAT and go to a decent school?

Already took three times and have no plans to retake; highest I got is 169.

GuyinNY wrote: ↑

Fri Aug 14, 2020 10:08 am

Pomeranian wrote: ↑

Fri Aug 14, 2020 10:03 am

Why don't you just retake the LSAT and go to a decent school?

Already took three times and have no plans to retake; highest I got is 169.

Then why are you going to SJU? A 169 and a halfway-decent GPA will get you admission to the T13. A 169 and a not-so-decent GPA will still get you admitted to a solid T1.

And to echo one of the prior posters, there is no "second-most-lucrative" career path here. Legal salaries for new grads are bimodal: The vast majority of graduates will either start out making $60k or making $190k. There are very few jobs with in-between salaries.

cavalier1138 wrote: ↑

Fri Aug 14, 2020 10:26 am

GuyinNY wrote: ↑

Fri Aug 14, 2020 10:08 am

Pomeranian wrote: ↑

Fri Aug 14, 2020 10:03 am

Why don't you just retake the LSAT and go to a decent school?

Already took three times and have no plans to retake; highest I got is 169.

Then why are you going to SJU? A 169 and a halfway-decent GPA will get you admission to the T13. A 169 and a not-so-decent GPA will still get you admitted to a solid T1.

And to echo one of the prior posters, there is no "second-most-lucrative" career path here. Legal salaries for new grads are bimodal: The vast majority of graduates will either start out making $60k or making $190k. There are very few jobs with in-between salaries.

Yeah good question - My GPA (at a state school, if it matters) was absolute garbage, 2.8. Columbia and NYU both rejected me.

What would you do if you were in my position, wanting to make more money? Should I just focus on getting high test scores and transferring?

No. Matriculating with the intention of transferring is a bad plan.

Look at it this way: even Fordham is a poor idea in anything less than a stellar economy if high paying nyc job is the goal.

And now think about how much poorer your school is than Fordham.

I would put your ambition/drive/work ethic to the test and take 4 months of rent free living and see if you can really learn the most learnable test there is. Trust me: doing well on the lsat is a hell of a lot easier than outperforming 90% of your class in 1L.

Don’t go to St. John’s.

objctnyrhnr wrote: ↑

Fri Aug 14, 2020 11:23 am

No. Matriculating with the intention of transferring is a bad plan.

Look at it this way: even Fordham is a poor idea in anything less than a stellar economy if high paying nyc job is the goal.

And now think about how much poorer your school is than Fordham.

I would put your ambition/drive/work ethic to the test and take 4 months of rent free living and see if you can really learn the most learnable test there is. Trust me: doing well on the lsat is a hell of a lot easier than outperforming 90% of your class in 1L.

Don’t go to St. John’s.

You definitely have good points, and I really appreciate the input. I honestly just doubt that I can do better on the LSAT (my score trajectory was 162, 169, 164) and I got those after studying for multiple hours every day for months and months and reading two books about it, taking every practice test a ton of times. Probably wouldn't be worth it, would probably hit a wall.

I can understand how matriculating with the intent to transfer would be bad, but wouldn't it be OK to at least apply to T14 if my exam scores were good enough? I still want to go to law school even if I can't get an 180K/year job right after graduation. I just want to do as well financially as someone in my shoes possibly could.

GuyinNY wrote: ↑

Fri Aug 14, 2020 12:15 pm

I just want to do as well financially as someone in my shoes possibly could.

Then in all honesty, you probably shouldn't go to law school.

Law school is a good idea if you want to practice law, regardless of how much money you will make. If your goal is solely to make money, then there are far better and faster ways to do that.

I know this is late, but I’m an associate in NYC biglaw and yeah, we have a few people from Tier II schools (like 1 or 2 per class per school) and they were usually in like the top 5% of their classes.

I see where you nearly have a full scholarship though! There are some great midsize firms in NY that will help you make a living, paying between 40 and 100k, depending. Since you won’t have any crazy loans to worry about, you’ll be able to focus on doing what you actually like and you won’t end up underwater, even if you’re not making as much as you might hope, at first.

Also, I’m not sure if certain JD advantage jobs in NYC are more flexible. I went to the same ivy for UG, law and business school, so my experiences with placements for classmates in elite JD advantage (MBB consulting) might be out of touch. Let me know if you have any more specific questions!