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Hey TLSers,
I made a post yesterday regarding a similar topic, but decided to modify it by adding some info:

A little about me: I am a 0L seeking to enter Biglaw. I have narrowed down my desired markets to Chicago and DC in that order. I would prefer to stay in-state at UVA and save money/go to higher-ranked school. I grew up in Chicago and have family there. Currently living in Northern VA/DC suburbs where I also have family. K-JD, AA.

Schools:

• $54k at UVA, $54k at M, $60k at NU

Are these enough ties to land biglaw after law school? Summer associate position during law school? Which school should I go with, all things considered? Where in my class would I have to finish? Any info is appreciated! Thanks a ton in advance!

you should be alright at either option for Chicago. My guess is your chances are better at NU and M than UVA but that could be self-selection bias for students at UVA who don't go to Chicago

KMart wrote:you should be alright at either option for Chicago. My guess is your chances are better at NU and M than UVA but that could be self-selection bias for students at UVA who don't go to Chicago

What about DC? How do each of the 3 do in DC biglaw?

eli_1812 wrote:

KMart wrote:you should be alright at either option for Chicago. My guess is your chances are better at NU and M than UVA but that could be self-selection bias for students at UVA who don't go to Chicago

What about DC? How do each of the 3 do in DC biglaw?

UVA has the best placement in DC of the three. Roughly 25% of a given class will end up in DC Biglaw following graduation.

KMart wrote:you should be alright at either option for Chicago. My guess is your chances are better at NU and M than UVA but that could be self-selection bias for students at UVA who don't go to Chicago

Yeah, it's a little of both.

OP, you should pick based on whichever is cheapest. If UVA is your cheapest option, it makes perfect sense to stay in-state and take UVA. It can put you in Chicago or DC Biglaw. So can Michigan and NU, but if UVA is cheaper, go to UVA.

Northwestern if you really prefer Chicago

UVA if you really prefer DC

I'd probably go UVA for the savings if you can't decide between the two cities yet. But you really should decide.

If you go to UVA, you'll have to be very proactive in mass mailing and getting interviews in Chicago. A lot of Chicago firms won't go to UVA for interviews.

One other concern is how strong are your ties to chicago. How long did you grow up there? Through high school? College in illinois? If absolutely nothing in your resume has chicago on it, it's going to be an issue for getting internviews in chicago (if you don't go to NW).

eli_1812 wrote:

KMart wrote:you should be alright at either option for Chicago. My guess is your chances are better at NU and M than UVA but that could be self-selection bias for students at UVA who don't go to Chicago

What about DC? How do each of the 3 do in DC biglaw?

NU sends some people in DC every year, but it's a tougher path for those who want to go there than those looking to stay in Chicago, go to NY, or CA. DC is more competitive from here, probably in part because not all that many DC firms come to OCI (compared to Chicago and NY firms, anyway). It's doable, but significantly harder to land in DC from NU than from UVA. M doesn't have stellar DC placement either, but 10-15% of the class tends to end up there. Based on friends at both schools who want or went to DC, I don't think placement power is significantly different there between NU and Michigan. Michigan folks are also pretty common in Chicago, but it doesn't come close to NU's placement power locally.

All that said, the differences between the three aren't so great that any one is worth paying significantly more for than the others, especially if you're open to either city. Take whichever lands you in less debt.

And re: ties, having family in Chicago or an SO you're moving with probably takes care of that. I had no ties to Chicago before coming to law school here and had no trouble getting interviews, and the extent of the "ties" conversation in every interview was simply my stating that my spouse uprooted a career to move to Chicago and we don't intend to do that again. I'd think growing up there and saying you'd like to stay close to your family in the area would cover you. I suppose ymmv there, though; just wanted to offer my experience since others mentioned ties being an issue.

Desert Fox wrote:Northwestern if you really prefer Chicago

UVA if you really prefer DC

I'd probably go UVA for the savings if you can't decide between the two cities yet. But you really should decide.

If you go to UVA, you'll have to be very proactive in mass mailing and getting interviews in Chicago. A lot of Chicago firms won't go to UVA for interviews.

One other concern is how strong are your ties to chicago. How long did you grow up there? Through high school? College in illinois? If absolutely nothing in your resume has chicago on it, it's going to be an issue for getting internviews in chicago (if you don't go to NW).

Born and raised up until high school, high school and undergrad were in Virginia. Any possibility of a 1L SA in Chicago coming out of UVA? And if so, what kind of grades/extra curriculars would I need? (if you had to guess)

eli_1812 wrote:

Desert Fox wrote:Northwestern if you really prefer Chicago

UVA if you really prefer DC

I'd probably go UVA for the savings if you can't decide between the two cities yet. But you really should decide.

If you go to UVA, you'll have to be very proactive in mass mailing and getting interviews in Chicago. A lot of Chicago firms won't go to UVA for interviews.

One other concern is how strong are your ties to chicago. How long did you grow up there? Through high school? College in illinois? If absolutely nothing in your resume has chicago on it, it's going to be an issue for getting internviews in chicago (if you don't go to NW).

Born and raised up until high school, high school and undergrad were in Virginia. Any possibility of a 1L SA in Chicago coming out of UVA? And if so, what kind of grades/extra curriculars would I need? (if you had to guess)

1L SA are hard to get pretty much everywhere, so it's not as simple as "good grades/extracurriculars." Good grades help, but are not dispositive to get you an SA anywhere. I know a couple Chicago 1L SAs this year from UVA, but they are a mixture of born and raised in IL and have good grades and IP science types. The more pertinent question is whether you can get a 2L SA, which happens every year from UVA. NU is better at getting Chicago statistically, but in terms of where you have to be in your class at UVA or NU to get Chicago Biglaw is pretty much the same. If you're median at UVA and bid smartly at UVA, you can get Chicago Biglaw. 1L SA is unpredictable/less about grades in every market. Some markets hire before 1L fall grades come back (TX firms will do this regularly), others will require you be diverse or have top 10% grades (DC comes to mind).

UVA2B wrote:

eli_1812 wrote:

Desert Fox wrote:Northwestern if you really prefer Chicago

UVA if you really prefer DC

I'd probably go UVA for the savings if you can't decide between the two cities yet. But you really should decide.

If you go to UVA, you'll have to be very proactive in mass mailing and getting interviews in Chicago. A lot of Chicago firms won't go to UVA for interviews.

One other concern is how strong are your ties to chicago. How long did you grow up there? Through high school? College in illinois? If absolutely nothing in your resume has chicago on it, it's going to be an issue for getting internviews in chicago (if you don't go to NW).

Born and raised up until high school, high school and undergrad were in Virginia. Any possibility of a 1L SA in Chicago coming out of UVA? And if so, what kind of grades/extra curriculars would I need? (if you had to guess)

1L SA are hard to get pretty much everywhere, so it's not as simple as "good grades/extracurriculars." Good grades help, but are not dispositive to get you an SA anywhere. I know a couple Chicago 1L SAs this year from UVA, but they are a mixture of born and raised in IL and have good grades and IP science types. The more pertinent question is whether you can get a 2L SA, which happens every year from UVA. NU is better at getting Chicago statistically, but in terms of where you have to be in your class at UVA or NU to get Chicago Biglaw is pretty much the same. If you're median at UVA and bid smartly at UVA, you can get Chicago Biglaw. 1L SA is unpredictable/less about grades in every market. Some markets hire before 1L fall grades come back (TX firms will do this regularly), others will require you be diverse or have top 10% grades (DC comes to mind).

Hopefully I at least have a shot at a DC 1L SA, then. AA, Northern VA resident.

Any DC firms that come to mind specifically?

eli_1812 wrote:

UVA2B wrote:

eli_1812 wrote:

Desert Fox wrote:Northwestern if you really prefer Chicago

UVA if you really prefer DC

I'd probably go UVA for the savings if you can't decide between the two cities yet. But you really should decide.

If you go to UVA, you'll have to be very proactive in mass mailing and getting interviews in Chicago. A lot of Chicago firms won't go to UVA for interviews.

One other concern is how strong are your ties to chicago. How long did you grow up there? Through high school? College in illinois? If absolutely nothing in your resume has chicago on it, it's going to be an issue for getting internviews in chicago (if you don't go to NW).

Born and raised up until high school, high school and undergrad were in Virginia. Any possibility of a 1L SA in Chicago coming out of UVA? And if so, what kind of grades/extra curriculars would I need? (if you had to guess)

1L SA are hard to get pretty much everywhere, so it's not as simple as "good grades/extracurriculars." Good grades help, but are not dispositive to get you an SA anywhere. I know a couple Chicago 1L SAs this year from UVA, but they are a mixture of born and raised in IL and have good grades and IP science types. The more pertinent question is whether you can get a 2L SA, which happens every year from UVA. NU is better at getting Chicago statistically, but in terms of where you have to be in your class at UVA or NU to get Chicago Biglaw is pretty much the same. If you're median at UVA and bid smartly at UVA, you can get Chicago Biglaw. 1L SA is unpredictable/less about grades in every market. Some markets hire before 1L fall grades come back (TX firms will do this regularly), others will require you be diverse or have top 10% grades (DC comes to mind).

Hopefully I at least have a shot at a DC 1L SA, then. AA, Northern VA resident.

Any DC firms that come to mind specifically?

No, most firms have diversity 1L SA positions (both Chicago and D.C.). Apply broadly and see what you get. Diversity helps in hiring less than it does in admissions, and the number of positions available for 1L SAs are pretty limited, so it's not about targeting specific firms. You apply to every firm in every geographic location that interests you and pray you land something. Approximately 25% of 1Ls will work at firms 1L summer at UVA, so take that for what it is in likelihood of landing one (lucky enough to personally be in that 25%, but plenty of friends struck out).

See also http://www.ontourinterview.com/chicago1.html. I know several students who got offers––good offers––from Chicago firms through OTIP.

UVA2B wrote:

eli_1812 wrote:

UVA2B wrote:

eli_1812 wrote:

Desert Fox wrote:Northwestern if you really prefer Chicago

UVA if you really prefer DC

I'd probably go UVA for the savings if you can't decide between the two cities yet. But you really should decide.

If you go to UVA, you'll have to be very proactive in mass mailing and getting interviews in Chicago. A lot of Chicago firms won't go to UVA for interviews.

One other concern is how strong are your ties to chicago. How long did you grow up there? Through high school? College in illinois? If absolutely nothing in your resume has chicago on it, it's going to be an issue for getting internviews in chicago (if you don't go to NW).

Born and raised up until high school, high school and undergrad were in Virginia. Any possibility of a 1L SA in Chicago coming out of UVA? And if so, what kind of grades/extra curriculars would I need? (if you had to guess)

1L SA are hard to get pretty much everywhere, so it's not as simple as "good grades/extracurriculars." Good grades help, but are not dispositive to get you an SA anywhere. I know a couple Chicago 1L SAs this year from UVA, but they are a mixture of born and raised in IL and have good grades and IP science types. The more pertinent question is whether you can get a 2L SA, which happens every year from UVA. NU is better at getting Chicago statistically, but in terms of where you have to be in your class at UVA or NU to get Chicago Biglaw is pretty much the same. If you're median at UVA and bid smartly at UVA, you can get Chicago Biglaw. 1L SA is unpredictable/less about grades in every market. Some markets hire before 1L fall grades come back (TX firms will do this regularly), others will require you be diverse or have top 10% grades (DC comes to mind).

Hopefully I at least have a shot at a DC 1L SA, then. AA, Northern VA resident.

Any DC firms that come to mind specifically?

No, most firms have diversity 1L SA positions (both Chicago and D.C.). Apply broadly and see what you get. Diversity helps in hiring less than it does in admissions, and the number of positions available for 1L SAs are pretty limited, so it's not about targeting specific firms. You apply to every firm in every geographic location that interests you and pray you land something. Approximately 25% of 1Ls will work at firms 1L summer at UVA, so take that for what it is in likelihood of landing one (lucky enough to personally be in that 25%, but plenty of friends struck out).

I can't help but notice that nobody mentioned Michigan, which is as prestigious as UVA in almost every aspect and gave me an identical scholarship. Is UVA truly the same/better than, say, Michigan, for someone who can't decide between Chicago and D.C. biglaw?

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