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I am currently toying around with the idea of taking the LSAT in June to see if I can crack 170 and, if so, reapplying next cycle. If I do this, I think I would prefer to put a deposit down somewhere in the case that I'm unable to crack 170 (so that I don't force myself into reapplying anyway) and am wondering if - other than money lost - it's harmful if I decided to reapply in the next cycle (i.e. Would I be put on some sort of blacklist by the school if I were to reapply the next cycle?) So far, I'm not doing too hot in the T14. Best I've gotten is Michigan but they're not planning on giving me any money. Just got dinged by NYU, which was somewhere I really would've liked to go.

Use your SEO money to soften the blow at Michigan.

Obviously, you will lose the deposit money. However, what were your practice scores on the LSAT as compared to your actual LSAT score. IF you underperformed on test day, then you should retake in June. If your actual LSAT score was within 1-2 points of your consistent LSAT practice test scores, then unless you did not sufficiently study prior to the LSAT you will likely score within your current score range (although a point or two increase could yield completely different results).

A lot of people put seat deposits down and do not matriculate. So do not worry about any negative consequences.

ultimately, the choice is yours. If you are worried about leaving money on the table and are okay with sitting out another year (and then applying the first possible day for next cycle) then I would absolutely retake the test and re apply.

Turning down schools that accept you can hurt you if you reapply to that school in a later cycle. I don't know how depositing effects that.

I got into Michigan, Cornell, and Georgetown with $$ the first time I applied, then got straight rejected by C & M and waitlisted by GULC the next year (and my numbers were in auto-admit territory for all 3). You're basically saying that their offer wasn't good enough for you to go there. If they're a YP school, that's a red flag for them. Particularly if you didn't improve enough to warrant significantly more money. Northwestern was the only school to accept me both cycles.

Still, you might be able to offset it by writing a compelling Why X? essay.

For what it's worth, I ended up getting more money from Columbia than any of those 3 offered when I reapplied (with only a +2 LSAT score). Totally worth it, but extremely stressful.

White Dwarf wrote:Turning down schools that accept you can hurt you if you reapply to that school in a later cycle. I don't know how depositing effects that.

I got into Michigan, Cornell, and Georgetown with $$ the first time I applied, then got straight rejected by C & M and waitlisted by GULC the next year (and my numbers were in auto-admit territory for all 3). You're basically saying that their offer wasn't good enough for you to go there. If they're a YP school, that's a red flag for them. Particularly if you didn't improve enough to warrant significantly more money. Northwestern was the only school to accept me both cycles.

Still, you might be able to offset it by writing a compelling Why X? essay.

For what it's worth, I ended up getting more money from Columbia than any of those 3 offered when I reapplied (with only a +2 LSAT score). Totally worth it, but extremely stressful.

Michigan might understand if the issue is money and they offered you zero. If you do this you can be honest with admissions about it. Sticker at Michigan is not something you should do. Make sure they know you love the school but can't take on that much debt.

I remember someone turned down Harvard and retook and reapplied was rejected. But they were unlikely to get more aid at Harvard by a retake.

How do you already know Michigan isn't offering you anything?

I don't see anything wrong with this route (I'm a 0L though, so keep in that mind). Even if OP did score within their range initially, is there anything to lose other than time spent studying for a retake? Seems like the potential upside is huge with very little downside (but correct me if I'm missing something).

somedeadman wrote:How do you already know Michigan isn't offering you anything?

I don't see anything wrong with this route (I'm a 0L though, so keep in that mind). Even if OP did score within their range initially, is there anything to lose other than time spent studying for a retake? Seems like the potential upside is huge with very little downside (but correct me if I'm missing something).

I got the merit aid email that basically said, "Would love to see you here once you take out that $200k+ in loans!" lol

northwood wrote:Obviously, you will lose the deposit money. However, what were your practice scores on the LSAT as compared to your actual LSAT score. IF you underperformed on test day, then you should retake in June. If your actual LSAT score was within 1-2 points of your consistent LSAT practice test scores, then unless you did not sufficiently study prior to the LSAT you will likely score within your current score range (although a point or two increase could yield completely different results).

A lot of people put seat deposits down and do not matriculate. So do not worry about any negative consequences.

ultimately, the choice is yours. If you are worried about leaving money on the table and are okay with sitting out another year (and then applying the first possible day for next cycle) then I would absolutely retake the test and re apply.

It would be my third time taking the LSAT, but I don't really think I'm doomed to end up in my current score range again. I first took the LSAT last June and got a 164, retook in Sept and got a 167, but at one point was consistently scoring over 170 on PTs. Basically, I don't think I maxed out my potential. I started seeing a couple PT scores where my score would drop below 170 and got really discouraged/anxious because it was pretty close to test day and kind of cooled it on studying to try to ease my mind, and I didn't drill the way I think would've been most beneficial to improvement. I don't think I started studying again until maybe two months before the Sept. test though....

Michigan is a GREAT school (we all know this) but I don't know if it's a STICKER amount worth of debt kind of great school to me, especially because I'm not going to be one of those lucky people that pays sticker somewhere and gets some (any) financial help from family, perhaps outside of if I REALLY need it WHILE in law school. Basically, that $200k+ in debt would be coming out of MY pocket, and my pocket alone, at some point.

Obviously, I intend to see what the rest of my cycle has to offer, especially since June is after the cycle ends anyway. But my thinking is that I'm a URM with a mediocre, at best, GPA and my current LSAT isn't enough to make me a splitter at most T14s, and with a GPA below 25ths, I'd imagine that being at least at or above median LSAT is when I'll be likely to at least see some money (and of course, the higher above median, the more money I'll be likely to see).

White Dwarf wrote:Turning down schools that accept you can hurt you if you reapply to that school in a later cycle. I don't know how depositing effects that.

I got into Michigan, Cornell, and Georgetown with $$ the first time I applied, then got straight rejected by C & M and waitlisted by GULC the next year (and my numbers were in auto-admit territory for all 3). You're basically saying that their offer wasn't good enough for you to go there. If they're a YP school, that's a red flag for them. Particularly if you didn't improve enough to warrant significantly more money. Northwestern was the only school to accept me both cycles.

Still, you might be able to offset it by writing a compelling Why X? essay.

For what it's worth, I ended up getting more money from Columbia than any of those 3 offered when I reapplied (with only a +2 LSAT score). Totally worth it, but extremely stressful.

Well, my goal would be to go from an LSAT score that's usually on the lower end of the 25/50/75 (varying by school, of course) to one at/above median, obviously the higher the better.

Basically, my thinking is that I will deposit somewhere as somewhat of a safety net for if I don't see the kind of improvement that leads to breaking 170, because in that case, I'm not sure sitting out would really be that beneficial. But if I'm able to break (or ideally get above) 170, I think that would change a lot for me since my GPA is pretty unimpressive and above a 170 has the potential to turn me into an actual splitter at some schools that I'm not quite there yet.

I also wonder if the fact that I'm not being offered any money would help adcomms understand why I would choose to sit out rather than taking out loans if I'm able to improve my LSAT enough to change where I sit in their stats...

According to Georgetown calculator: full debt financed is $268,669
LST has $273,590 at repayment.

Don't know if you will debt finance everything.

Edit to add: I posted this because you mentioned $200,000+ in loans, as anyone can see it is substantially more than $200,000 if you debt finance everything.

Are there any other t-14s you're waiting to hear from (that you would attend if given some money)?

brinicolec wrote:

somedeadman wrote:How do you already know Michigan isn't offering you anything?

I don't see anything wrong with this route (I'm a 0L though, so keep in that mind). Even if OP did score within their range initially, is there anything to lose other than time spent studying for a retake? Seems like the potential upside is huge with very little downside (but correct me if I'm missing something).

I got the merit aid email that basically said, "Would love to see you here once you take out that $200k+ in loans!" lol

Holy fuck. That scares the shit out of me! You're a urm with a 167 and they want you to pay everything?

For what it's worth, I am doing the same plan you proposed in your original post. My offices score is a 169, and I never scored above a 172 on a fresh test. However, I still believe even one additional point would be helpful, plus I think practice test retakes are a helpful learning tool. I suggest messaging grades??; he did exactly what we are talking about. He put a deposit down at notre dame, took the LSAT for a third time and managed to secure a full-ride at UVA/Duke and still attend law school that same fall.

somedeadman wrote:

brinicolec wrote:

somedeadman wrote:How do you already know Michigan isn't offering you anything?

I don't see anything wrong with this route (I'm a 0L though, so keep in that mind). Even if OP did score within their range initially, is there anything to lose other than time spent studying for a retake? Seems like the potential upside is huge with very little downside (but correct me if I'm missing something).

I got the merit aid email that basically said, "Would love to see you here once you take out that $200k+ in loans!" lol

Holy fuck. That scares the shit out of me! You're a urm with a 167 and they want you to pay everything?

For what it's worth, I am doing the same plan you proposed in your original post. My offices score is a 169, and I never scored above a 172 on a fresh test. However, I still believe even one additional point would be helpful, plus I think practice test retakes are a helpful learning tool. I suggest messaging grades??; he did exactly what we are talking about. He put a deposit down at notre dame, took the LSAT for a third time and managed to secure a full-ride at UVA/Duke and still attend law school that same fall.

Yeah, like I said, I think my GPA is what's killing me most here In hindsight, maybe should've sent a GPA addendum, just wasn't really sure how it would be received by adcomm so thought it would be safer not to.

Wait. So are you saying that they used their June LSAT to negotiate a scholly over the summer?

Npret wrote:According to Georgetown calculator: full debt financed is $268,669
LST has $273,590 at repayment.

Don't know if you will debt finance everything.

Edit to add: I posted this because you mentioned $200,000+ in loans, as anyone can see it is substantially more than $200,000 if you debt finance everything.

I said $200k+ because I honestly never took the time to find out the specifics because I know I won't take out that much in loans to go to Michigan. Lol. But thank you!

brinicolec wrote:

somedeadman wrote:

brinicolec wrote:

somedeadman wrote:How do you already know Michigan isn't offering you anything?

I don't see anything wrong with this route (I'm a 0L though, so keep in that mind). Even if OP did score within their range initially, is there anything to lose other than time spent studying for a retake? Seems like the potential upside is huge with very little downside (but correct me if I'm missing something).

I got the merit aid email that basically said, "Would love to see you here once you take out that $200k+ in loans!" lol

Holy fuck. That scares the shit out of me! You're a urm with a 167 and they want you to pay everything?

For what it's worth, I am doing the same plan you proposed in your original post. My offices score is a 169, and I never scored above a 172 on a fresh test. However, I still believe even one additional point would be helpful, plus I think practice test retakes are a helpful learning tool. I suggest messaging grades??; he did exactly what we are talking about. He put a deposit down at notre dame, took the LSAT for a third time and managed to secure a full-ride at UVA/Duke and still attend law school that same fall.

Yeah, like I said, I think my GPA is what's killing me most here In hindsight, maybe should've sent a GPA addendum, just wasn't really sure how it would be received by adcomm so thought it would be safer not to.

Wait. So are you saying that they used their June LSAT to negotiate a scholly over the summer?

Yes, that's exactly what they did, and what I plan to do as I anticipate not getting a lot of money.

2000andBeyond wrote:Are there any other t-14s you're waiting to hear from (that you would attend if given some money)?

I was WLed at Duke and withdrew because the odds of getting off that WL are low and I took it as a sign that I don't need to return to NC ever unless it's for a basketball game (I went to UNC for undergrad) . I applied to most T14s, except for Penn, Yale, and Stanford (I think those are the only three), and I've already heard back from Georgetown (accepted), Duke (WL), Cornell (rejected), NYU (rejected), and Michigan (accepted). I've also been accepted to most of the schools just outside of the T14 that I applied to; I say most because I'm still waiting on some decisions.

somedeadman wrote:

brinicolec wrote:

somedeadman wrote:

brinicolec wrote:

somedeadman wrote:How do you already know Michigan isn't offering you anything?

I don't see anything wrong with this route (I'm a 0L though, so keep in that mind). Even if OP did score within their range initially, is there anything to lose other than time spent studying for a retake? Seems like the potential upside is huge with very little downside (but correct me if I'm missing something).

I got the merit aid email that basically said, "Would love to see you here once you take out that $200k+ in loans!" lol

Holy fuck. That scares the shit out of me! You're a urm with a 167 and they want you to pay everything?

For what it's worth, I am doing the same plan you proposed in your original post. My offices score is a 169, and I never scored above a 172 on a fresh test. However, I still believe even one additional point would be helpful, plus I think practice test retakes are a helpful learning tool. I suggest messaging grades??; he did exactly what we are talking about. He put a deposit down at notre dame, took the LSAT for a third time and managed to secure a full-ride at UVA/Duke and still attend law school that same fall.

Yeah, like I said, I think my GPA is what's killing me most here In hindsight, maybe should've sent a GPA addendum, just wasn't really sure how it would be received by adcomm so thought it would be safer not to.

Wait. So are you saying that they used their June LSAT to negotiate a scholly over the summer?

Yes, that's exactly what they did, and what I plan to do as I anticipate not getting a lot of money.

Hm... I guess I just assumed that by the time you get your June score, schools don't have a lot of scholly $ left to give.

brinicolec wrote:

2000andBeyond wrote:Are there any other t-14s you're waiting to hear from (that you would attend if given some money)?

I was WLed at Duke and withdrew because the odds of getting off that WL are low and I took it as a sign that I don't need to return to NC ever unless it's for a basketball game (I went to UNC for undergrad) . I applied to most T14s, except for Penn, Yale, and Stanford (I think those are the only three), and I've already heard back from Georgetown (accepted), Duke (WL), Cornell (rejected), NYU (rejected), and Michigan (accepted). I've also been accepted to most of the schools just outside of the T14 that I applied to; I say most because I'm still waiting on some decisions.

Girl, don't count yourself out just yet! Are there any that you applied to in November you can send a friendly LOCI to? I would really push (obviously don't be aggressive), but just let them know you're still interested. You have decent numbers and are an urm. Maybe I just hate the "sit out" option, but I really do believe you will have some luck if you just let them know you're still out there and wanting to attend! Don't lose hope just yet. Signing up for the June LSAT is a good back up options. But I will tell you this, URM cycles are REALLY unpredictable. I was waitlisted at FORDHAM and GW (not YP at all LMAO) but I got into BU (with 105K), waitlisted at Penn and accepted to NU so far (and I still have many more to hear from). Don't despair!

2000andBeyond wrote:

brinicolec wrote:

2000andBeyond wrote:Are there any other t-14s you're waiting to hear from (that you would attend if given some money)?

I was WLed at Duke and withdrew because the odds of getting off that WL are low and I took it as a sign that I don't need to return to NC ever unless it's for a basketball game (I went to UNC for undergrad) . I applied to most T14s, except for Penn, Yale, and Stanford (I think those are the only three), and I've already heard back from Georgetown (accepted), Duke (WL), Cornell (rejected), NYU (rejected), and Michigan (accepted). I've also been accepted to most of the schools just outside of the T14 that I applied to; I say most because I'm still waiting on some decisions.

Girl, don't count yourself out just yet! Are there any that you applied to in November you can send a friendly LOCI to? I would really push (obviously don't be aggressive), but just let them know you're still interested. You have decent numbers and are an urm. Maybe I just hate the "sit out" option, but I really do believe you will have some luck if you just let them know you're still out there and wanting to attend! Don't lose hope just yet. Signing up for the June LSAT is a good back up options. But I will tell you this, URM cycles are REALLY unpredictable. I was waitlisted at FORDHAM and GW (not YP at all LMAO) but I got into BU (with 105K), waitlisted at Penn and accepted to NU so far (and I still have many more to hear from). Don't despair!

I would send LOCIs but I'm worried if I do that and then get WLed I won't have anything to say Lol. Maybe I'll wait until later in the month and if I'm still waiting, send one.

brinicolec wrote:

2000andBeyond wrote:

brinicolec wrote:

2000andBeyond wrote:Are there any other t-14s you're waiting to hear from (that you would attend if given some money)?

I was WLed at Duke and withdrew because the odds of getting off that WL are low and I took it as a sign that I don't need to return to NC ever unless it's for a basketball game (I went to UNC for undergrad) . I applied to most T14s, except for Penn, Yale, and Stanford (I think those are the only three), and I've already heard back from Georgetown (accepted), Duke (WL), Cornell (rejected), NYU (rejected), and Michigan (accepted). I've also been accepted to most of the schools just outside of the T14 that I applied to; I say most because I'm still waiting on some decisions.

Girl, don't count yourself out just yet! Are there any that you applied to in November you can send a friendly LOCI to? I would really push (obviously don't be aggressive), but just let them know you're still interested. You have decent numbers and are an urm. Maybe I just hate the "sit out" option, but I really do believe you will have some luck if you just let them know you're still out there and wanting to attend! Don't lose hope just yet. Signing up for the June LSAT is a good back up options. But I will tell you this, URM cycles are REALLY unpredictable. I was waitlisted at FORDHAM and GW (not YP at all LMAO) but I got into BU (with 105K), waitlisted at Penn and accepted to NU so far (and I still have many more to hear from). Don't despair!

I would send LOCIs but I'm worried if I do that and then get WLed I won't have anything to say Lol. Maybe I'll wait until later in the month and if I'm still waiting, send one.

LMAO, I feel you. Are you currently working or in school?

2000andBeyond wrote:

brinicolec wrote:

2000andBeyond wrote:

brinicolec wrote:

2000andBeyond wrote:Are there any other t-14s you're waiting to hear from (that you would attend if given some money)?

I was WLed at Duke and withdrew because the odds of getting off that WL are low and I took it as a sign that I don't need to return to NC ever unless it's for a basketball game (I went to UNC for undergrad) . I applied to most T14s, except for Penn, Yale, and Stanford (I think those are the only three), and I've already heard back from Georgetown (accepted), Duke (WL), Cornell (rejected), NYU (rejected), and Michigan (accepted). I've also been accepted to most of the schools just outside of the T14 that I applied to; I say most because I'm still waiting on some decisions.

Girl, don't count yourself out just yet! Are there any that you applied to in November you can send a friendly LOCI to? I would really push (obviously don't be aggressive), but just let them know you're still interested. You have decent numbers and are an urm. Maybe I just hate the "sit out" option, but I really do believe you will have some luck if you just let them know you're still out there and wanting to attend! Don't lose hope just yet. Signing up for the June LSAT is a good back up options. But I will tell you this, URM cycles are REALLY unpredictable. I was waitlisted at FORDHAM and GW (not YP at all LMAO) but I got into BU (with 105K), waitlisted at Penn and accepted to NU so far (and I still have many more to hear from). Don't despair!

I would send LOCIs but I'm worried if I do that and then get WLed I won't have anything to say Lol. Maybe I'll wait until later in the month and if I'm still waiting, send one.

LMAO, I feel you. Are you currently working or in school?

Working, but not at a job that I'd want to continue if I were to sit out ANOTHER year. I really think if I were to sit out I'd want to do something law-related, such as be a paralegal or something, ideally for a PI cause, but I think you need to get a certificate to be marketable in that. Idk what other options there are that don't require anything specific lol

brinicolec wrote:

somedeadman wrote:

brinicolec wrote:

somedeadman wrote:

brinicolec wrote:

somedeadman wrote:How do you already know Michigan isn't offering you anything?

I don't see anything wrong with this route (I'm a 0L though, so keep in that mind). Even if OP did score within their range initially, is there anything to lose other than time spent studying for a retake? Seems like the potential upside is huge with very little downside (but correct me if I'm missing something).

I got the merit aid email that basically said, "Would love to see you here once you take out that $200k+ in loans!" lol

Holy fuck. That scares the shit out of me! You're a urm with a 167 and they want you to pay everything?

For what it's worth, I am doing the same plan you proposed in your original post. My offices score is a 169, and I never scored above a 172 on a fresh test. However, I still believe even one additional point would be helpful, plus I think practice test retakes are a helpful learning tool. I suggest messaging grades??; he did exactly what we are talking about. He put a deposit down at notre dame, took the LSAT for a third time and managed to secure a full-ride at UVA/Duke and still attend law school that same fall.

Yeah, like I said, I think my GPA is what's killing me most here In hindsight, maybe should've sent a GPA addendum, just wasn't really sure how it would be received by adcomm so thought it would be safer not to.

Wait. So are you saying that they used their June LSAT to negotiate a scholly over the summer?

Yes, that's exactly what they did, and what I plan to do as I anticipate not getting a lot of money.

Hm... I guess I just assumed that by the time you get your June score, schools don't have a lot of scholly $ left to give.

I think it depends on how badly they want the new score. And if they aren't willing to negotiate, then you would wait another cycle. Like I said, I don't see any downside to taking it again other than time spent doing something else rather than studying.

somedeadman wrote:

brinicolec wrote:

somedeadman wrote:

brinicolec wrote:

somedeadman wrote:

brinicolec wrote:

somedeadman wrote:How do you already know Michigan isn't offering you anything?

I don't see anything wrong with this route (I'm a 0L though, so keep in that mind). Even if OP did score within their range initially, is there anything to lose other than time spent studying for a retake? Seems like the potential upside is huge with very little downside (but correct me if I'm missing something).

I got the merit aid email that basically said, "Would love to see you here once you take out that $200k+ in loans!" lol

Holy fuck. That scares the shit out of me! You're a urm with a 167 and they want you to pay everything?

For what it's worth, I am doing the same plan you proposed in your original post. My offices score is a 169, and I never scored above a 172 on a fresh test. However, I still believe even one additional point would be helpful, plus I think practice test retakes are a helpful learning tool. I suggest messaging grades??; he did exactly what we are talking about. He put a deposit down at notre dame, took the LSAT for a third time and managed to secure a full-ride at UVA/Duke and still attend law school that same fall.

Yeah, like I said, I think my GPA is what's killing me most here In hindsight, maybe should've sent a GPA addendum, just wasn't really sure how it would be received by adcomm so thought it would be safer not to.

Wait. So are you saying that they used their June LSAT to negotiate a scholly over the summer?

Yes, that's exactly what they did, and what I plan to do as I anticipate not getting a lot of money.

Hm... I guess I just assumed that by the time you get your June score, schools don't have a lot of scholly $ left to give.

I think it depends on how badly they want the new score. And if they aren't willing to negotiate, then you would wait another cycle. Like I said, I don't see any downside to taking it again other than time spent doing something else rather than studying.

Very true. My biggest concern was just not being able to apply to a school next cycle because of it. Although, if I increase my LSAT, the school I THINK I'd deposit to might not even be a school I decide to reapply to.... so I guess that's a bonus.