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Why does anybody care about Vault rankings?
Posted: Sun Jun 05, 2016 4:23 pm
by stego
I hear a lot on TLS about how meaningless Vault rankings are. So why are they even a thing? What are they based on?
Re: Why does anybody care about Vault rankings?
Posted: Sun Jun 05, 2016 4:26 pm
by sublime
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Re: Why does anybody care about Vault rankings?
Posted: Sun Jun 05, 2016 4:32 pm
by stego
sublime wrote:Based on surveys of people who work in firms, I believe.
What do the surveys ask? "In your subjective opinion, how preftigious is the law firm you currently work for?"
Re: Why does anybody care about Vault rankings?
Posted: Sun Jun 05, 2016 4:43 pm
by RaceJudicata
PRESTIGE!!!!
Re: Why does anybody care about Vault rankings?
Posted: Sun Jun 05, 2016 4:45 pm
by Burlington4174
stego wrote:I hear a lot on TLS about how meaningless Vault rankings are. So why are they even a thing? What are they based on?
They reflect firm prestige. Because perception does matter, putting aside whether or not it should, vault rankings correlate, to at least some extent, with the quality of work, client quality, and exit options. People also care because many of us value prestige in and of itself -- whether or not it makes sense to do so.
Re: Why does anybody care about Vault rankings?
Posted: Sun Jun 05, 2016 4:47 pm
by jkpolk
stego wrote:sublime wrote:Based on surveys of people who work in firms, I believe.
What do the surveys ask? "In your subjective opinion, how preftigious is the law firm you currently work for?"
Some of this got scooped.
Survey asks your for a "prestige" evaluation on all firms other than your own. Also asks you some questions about your firm, like "1-10, how happy are you with the firm's compensation policy?" etc. I dont think many people really care about the rankings by themselves, but they're a decent rough proxy for, well, prestige. Prestige helps you land jobs and
somewhat correlates with quality,
sometimes.
Re: Why does anybody care about Vault rankings?
Posted: Sun Jun 05, 2016 4:53 pm
by Mack.Hambleton
It roughly correlates with prestige, selectiveness, pay, exit opps, etc. But use chambers if you actually want to see a firms strengths.
Re: Why does anybody care about Vault rankings?
Posted: Sun Jun 05, 2016 5:06 pm
by TheRealSantaClaus
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Re: Why does anybody care about Vault rankings?
Posted: Sun Jun 05, 2016 5:07 pm
by TheRealSantaClaus
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Re: Why does anybody care about Vault rankings?
Posted: Sun Jun 05, 2016 5:07 pm
by stego
What does prestige derive from, ultimately? The perceived importance of the work the law firm does? The perceived importance of the law firm's clients?
Re: Why does anybody care about Vault rankings?
Posted: Sun Jun 05, 2016 5:11 pm
by Mack.Hambleton
stego wrote:What does prestige derive from, ultimately? The perceived importance of the work the law firm does? The perceived importance of the law firm's clients?
Revenue, PPP, complexity of work
Re: Why does anybody care about Vault rankings?
Posted: Sun Jun 05, 2016 5:12 pm
by pancakes3
just because the rankings are perceived doesn't mean it's not probative. however just because it's probative doesn't mean it's conclusive.
in STEM terms, the rankings are precise but only mildly accurate.
Re: Why does anybody care about Vault rankings?
Posted: Sun Jun 05, 2016 5:16 pm
by BigZuck
SBL wrote:If Vault didn't rank law firms what would autists worry about?
Re: Why does anybody care about Vault rankings?
Posted: Sun Jun 05, 2016 5:28 pm
by rpupkin
sublime wrote:Based on surveys of people who work in firms, I believe.
And the "people who work in firms" consist mostly of junior associates who work in NYC.
Imagine that the USNWR law school rankings were based entirely on the votes of 1Ls. That's basically how Vault works for law firms.
Re: Why does anybody care about Vault rankings?
Posted: Sun Jun 05, 2016 5:29 pm
by rpupkin
pancakes3 wrote:just because the rankings are perceived doesn't mean it's not probative. however just because it's probative doesn't mean it's conclusive.
What do you think the Vault rankings are "probative" of?
Re: Why does anybody care about Vault rankings?
Posted: Sun Jun 05, 2016 5:33 pm
by TLSModBot
Look if I can't snobbily look down my nose at those inferior V12 people from way up high on my V9 perch, I don't even see the point of BigLaw.
Re: Why does anybody care about Vault rankings?
Posted: Sun Jun 05, 2016 5:38 pm
by PeanutsNJam
What happens if every TLS biglaw associate trolls the voting. Would it make a dent?
Re: Why does anybody care about Vault rankings?
Posted: Sun Jun 05, 2016 5:39 pm
by stego
rpupkin wrote:sublime wrote:Based on surveys of people who work in firms, I believe.
And the "people who work in firms" consist mostly of junior associates who work in NYC.
Imagine that the USNWR law school rankings were based entirely on the votes of 1Ls. That's basically how Vault works for law firms.
There ought to be an alternative to Vault rankings based solely on what junior associates who work in flyover states think. What do biglawl lawyers in Oklahoma think? That's what I want to know.
Re: Why does anybody care about Vault rankings?
Posted: Sun Jun 05, 2016 5:41 pm
by TLSModBot
PeanutsNJam wrote:What happens if every TLS biglaw associate trolls the voting. Would it make a dent?
Only one way to find out
Re: Why does anybody care about Vault rankings?
Posted: Sun Jun 05, 2016 5:49 pm
by PeanutsNJam
PPP is dumb. You boost PPP by running a sweatshop, not bringing in interesting/profitable work.
Re: Why does anybody care about Vault rankings?
Posted: Sun Jun 05, 2016 5:54 pm
by pancakes3
rpupkin wrote:pancakes3 wrote:just because the rankings are perceived doesn't mean it's not probative. however just because it's probative doesn't mean it's conclusive.
What do you think the Vault rankings are "probative" of?
Vault's rankings are by their own admission/definition, rankings of "prestige" so... prestige.
Re: Why does anybody care about Vault rankings?
Posted: Sun Jun 05, 2016 7:03 pm
by rahulg91
PeanutsNJam wrote:PPP is dumb. You boost PPP by running a sweatshop, not bringing in interesting/profitable work.
So RPL is the way to go? Regardless, most of the financial data is available on AmLaw. Whether that data is accurate or not is another question entirely.
Re: Why does anybody care about Vault rankings?
Posted: Sun Jun 05, 2016 7:06 pm
by stego
pancakes3 wrote:rpupkin wrote:pancakes3 wrote:just because the rankings are perceived doesn't mean it's not probative. however just because it's probative doesn't mean it's conclusive.
What do you think the Vault rankings are "probative" of?
Vault's rankings are by their own admission/definition, rankings of "prestige" so... prestige.
But prestige itself is really just a subjective measure of other stuff.
Re: Why does anybody care about Vault rankings?
Posted: Sun Jun 05, 2016 7:07 pm
by speed_the_loot
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Re: Why does anybody care about Vault rankings?
Posted: Sun Jun 05, 2016 7:20 pm
by stego
How much (if at all) do firms care about their own Vault rankings? Do clients care about this?