Advice for chemistry grad student looking into IP law Forum

[chemgradstudent]

Hi there, I'm currently a PhD student in organic chemistry (top 15 school for chemistry), and I’ve realized that I don’t really want to do bench work after finishing this degree. After taking a course on drug development and reading some information on patent law, I’ve found myself increasingly interested in the IP aspect of pharmaceuticals and agrochemicals. I am allowed to audit one class per semester, and both IP law and patent law are offered as classes at my school (top 40 law school according to US News) in the fall. Obviously I wouldn’t have the 1L foundation to understand everything in the course, but do you think auditing one of them would be worthwhile to get a sense of whether I’m really interested in the material (and if so, which one?)?

What other ways would you suggest to see if pursuing law school for IP law would be a good fit for me? I’ve seen suggestions about trying to be hired as a patent agent at a firm that would eventually finance your JD, but a lot of that information seemed to be pre-recession. Is that still accurate today, or is going to law school first probably a better option?

I was also curious about what the current job market looks like for IP law for potential JD/PhDs. I don’t have one specific geographic region in mind, but I would like to end up with employment in a larger city for the foreseeable future (Boston, NYC, DC, SF would be high on my list). In the chemistry side of pharma/agro there’s been a lot of outsourcing of jobs overseas, so I was curious to see if this impacted the IP side.

Additionally, I know this isn't the subforum for this, but I was wondering what types of law schools to look into if I go that route. Undergrad GPA was 3.82 with Phi Beta Kappa from a public Ivy, and I have a 4.00 in my PhD program. I generally do standardized testing well (97th percentile GRE verbal and 96th percentile writing), so I have faith that I could do well on the LSAT after appropriate preparation. Are there any schools especially noteworthy for IP?

Thanks to anyone who can help!

[IPmaybe]

PM'd

[joeyc328]

Take and Pass the Patent Bar now. Become a Patent Agent at one of many big firms who would line up to here you. They will likely pay your way through law school.

[tomwatts]

I am allowed to audit one class per semester, and both IP law and patent law are offered as classes at my school (top 40 law school according to US News) in the fall. Obviously I wouldn’t have the 1L foundation to understand everything in the course, but do you think auditing one of them would be worthwhile to get a sense of whether I’m really interested in the material (and if so, which one?)?

Check whether the IP course is meant as the foundational course with patent law as the advanced course or not. If not, audit the patent law course; the more general IP course will also cover copyright and trademark, and you probably won't end up doing those things.

What other ways would you suggest to see if pursuing law school for IP law would be a good fit for me? I’ve seen suggestions about trying to be hired as a patent agent at a firm that would eventually finance your JD, but a lot of that information seemed to be pre-recession. Is that still accurate today, or is going to law school first probably a better option?

I'm not sure, but the main thing to get into is that the day-to-day of being a patent lawyer is more applying the concepts from the patent course than developing them — so it may feel sort of different from, say, taking a patent law class. There are, broadly speaking, three major subfields: patent prosecution (you actually file for the patents), patent litigation (when someone accuses somebody else of infringing a patent, you represent a side), and transactional patent stuff (when big companies sign deals, you look at the patents that the companies control and work on that aspect of the deal). Sometimes patent lawyers do all three of these things; sometimes they do one or two. Sometimes they do other things as well. Whatever it is that you do, try to get a sense of what the day-to-day of being a patent lawyer is like, ideally in a few different contexts.

I was also curious about what the current job market looks like for IP law for potential JD/PhDs. I don’t have one specific geographic region in mind, but I would like to end up with employment in a larger city for the foreseeable future (Boston, NYC, DC, SF would be high on my list). In the chemistry side of pharma/agro there’s been a lot of outsourcing of jobs overseas, so I was curious to see if this impacted the IP side.

The deep science background matters more for patent prosecution than for anything else, but the chem Ph.D. is a boost in some contexts even outside that. You will at least have a qualification that most people don't. It's probably not necessary; I was going to be able to become a patent litigator with just a B.A. in a science (and one that is not much in demand, at that — the in-demand subjects are generally chem/bio-related and computer-related). But it may allow you to do some things that others can't.

The major tech hubs (SF, Boston, etc.) are also major patent hubs generally, and deep legal markets (NYC) tend to have a good amount of patent work of some kind or another.

Additionally, I know this isn't the subforum for this, but I was wondering what types of law schools to look into if I go that route. Undergrad GPA was 3.82 with Phi Beta Kappa from a public Ivy, and I have a 4.00 in my PhD program. I generally do standardized testing well (97th percentile GRE verbal and 96th percentile writing), so I have faith that I could do well on the LSAT after appropriate preparation. Are there any schools especially noteworthy for IP?

Generally law schools don't have specialties in the way that other kinds of schools might. The number one consideration is a top-ranked school, because you have more options coming out of such a school. After that, there is some local bias in hiring, so, all other things being equal, it might be better to go to law school in the SF Bay area (e.g., Stanford, Berkeley) if you want to end up in SF, or in Boston (e.g., Harvard) if you want to end up in Boston, or whatever.

[A. Nony Mouse]

Additionally, I know this isn't the subforum for this, but I was wondering what types of law schools to look into if I go that route. Undergrad GPA was 3.82 with Phi Beta Kappa from a public Ivy, and I have a 4.00 in my PhD program. I generally do standardized testing well (97th percentile GRE verbal and 96th percentile writing), so I have faith that I could do well on the LSAT after appropriate preparation. Are there any schools especially noteworthy for IP?

Generally law schools don't have specialties in the way that other kinds of schools might. The number one consideration is a top-ranked school, because you have more options coming out of such a school. After that, there is some local bias in hiring, so, all other things being equal, it might be better to go to law school in the SF Bay area (e.g., Stanford, Berkeley) if you want to end up in SF, or in Boston (e.g., Harvard) if you want to end up in Boston, or whatever.

I just wanted to emphasize this as someone who came to law school from academia. I wasn't in the sciences/heading to IP, but it was a big mental adjustment to go from graduate education that absolutely required you to specialize and pigeonhole yourself and work with the best people/in the best programs *for that specific niche,* to law school. Law school doesn't care about specialization - you can do any legal job from any school (in terms of pure educational training. Like tomwatts said, top-ranked schools give you more job opportunities, period, and regional biases are important. But there's no academic specialization like you have in PhD programs).

[chemgradstudent]

I am allowed to audit one class per semester, and both IP law and patent law are offered as classes at my school (top 40 law school according to US News) in the fall. Obviously I wouldn’t have the 1L foundation to understand everything in the course, but do you think auditing one of them would be worthwhile to get a sense of whether I’m really interested in the material (and if so, which one?)?

Check whether the IP course is meant as the foundational course with patent law as the advanced course or not. If not, audit the patent law course; the more general IP course will also cover copyright and trademark, and you probably won't end up doing those things.

That's a perfectly sensible way to decide, thanks!

What other ways would you suggest to see if pursuing law school for IP law would be a good fit for me? I’ve seen suggestions about trying to be hired as a patent agent at a firm that would eventually finance your JD, but a lot of that information seemed to be pre-recession. Is that still accurate today, or is going to law school first probably a better option?

I'm not sure, but the main thing to get into is that the day-to-day of being a patent lawyer is more applying the concepts from the patent course than developing them — so it may feel sort of different from, say, taking a patent law class. There are, broadly speaking, three major subfields: patent prosecution (you actually file for the patents), patent litigation (when someone accuses somebody else of infringing a patent, you represent a side), and transactional patent stuff (when big companies sign deals, you look at the patents that the companies control and work on that aspect of the deal). Sometimes patent lawyers do all three of these things; sometimes they do one or two. Sometimes they do other things as well. Whatever it is that you do, try to get a sense of what the day-to-day of being a patent lawyer is like, ideally in a few different contexts.

That makes sense, I'd heard about prosecution and litigation and was under the impression that it's more typical to focus on just one of them.

I was also curious about what the current job market looks like for IP law for potential JD/PhDs. I don’t have one specific geographic region in mind, but I would like to end up with employment in a larger city for the foreseeable future (Boston, NYC, DC, SF would be high on my list). In the chemistry side of pharma/agro there’s been a lot of outsourcing of jobs overseas, so I was curious to see if this impacted the IP side.

The deep science background matters more for patent prosecution than for anything else, but the chem Ph.D. is a boost in some contexts even outside that. You will at least have a qualification that most people don't. It's probably not necessary; I was going to be able to become a patent litigator with just a B.A. in a science (and one that is not much in demand, at that — the in-demand subjects are generally chem/bio-related and computer-related). But it may allow you to do some things that others can't.

The major tech hubs (SF, Boston, etc.) are also major patent hubs generally, and deep legal markets (NYC) tend to have a good amount of patent work of some kind or another.

Those are all good signs, thanks.

Additionally, I know this isn't the subforum for this, but I was wondering what types of law schools to look into if I go that route. Undergrad GPA was 3.82 with Phi Beta Kappa from a public Ivy, and I have a 4.00 in my PhD program. I generally do standardized testing well (97th percentile GRE verbal and 96th percentile writing), so I have faith that I could do well on the LSAT after appropriate preparation. Are there any schools especially noteworthy for IP?

Generally law schools don't have specialties in the way that other kinds of schools might. The number one consideration is a top-ranked school, because you have more options coming out of such a school. After that, there is some local bias in hiring, so, all other things being equal, it might be better to go to law school in the SF Bay area (e.g., Stanford, Berkeley) if you want to end up in SF, or in Boston (e.g., Harvard) if you want to end up in Boston, or whatever.

Thanks for the lengthy response, I appreciate it!

[chemgradstudent]

Additionally, I know this isn't the subforum for this, but I was wondering what types of law schools to look into if I go that route. Undergrad GPA was 3.82 with Phi Beta Kappa from a public Ivy, and I have a 4.00 in my PhD program. I generally do standardized testing well (97th percentile GRE verbal and 96th percentile writing), so I have faith that I could do well on the LSAT after appropriate preparation. Are there any schools especially noteworthy for IP?

Generally law schools don't have specialties in the way that other kinds of schools might. The number one consideration is a top-ranked school, because you have more options coming out of such a school. After that, there is some local bias in hiring, so, all other things being equal, it might be better to go to law school in the SF Bay area (e.g., Stanford, Berkeley) if you want to end up in SF, or in Boston (e.g., Harvard) if you want to end up in Boston, or whatever.

I just wanted to emphasize this as someone who came to law school from academia. I wasn't in the sciences/heading to IP, but it was a big mental adjustment to go from graduate education that absolutely required you to specialize and pigeonhole yourself and work with the best people/in the best programs *for that specific niche,* to law school. Law school doesn't care about specialization - you can do any legal job from any school (in terms of pure educational training. Like tomwatts said, top-ranked schools give you more job opportunities, period, and regional biases are important. But there's no academic specialization like you have in PhD programs).

That's actually really reassuring. I'd prefer to be in a field where specialization isn't the most important thing (part of why I'm discovering academia isn't really my thing). Thanks!

[h2go]

What other ways would you suggest to see if pursuing law school for IP law would be a good fit for me? I’ve seen suggestions about trying to be hired as a patent agent at a firm that would eventually finance your JD, but a lot of that information seemed to be pre-recession. Is that still accurate today, or is going to law school first probably a better option?

This still happens today. The problem with going this route is that you'll be pretty old before you start with your legal career. You probably need to work for at least 1-2 years as a patent agent before bringing this up. Finnegan offers a student associate program where you can work while attending law school part-time. They hire you once you get into law school. They pay for tuition, but its kind of tough to work and keep up with your law school load.

I was also curious about what the current job market looks like for IP law for potential JD/PhDs. I don’t have one specific geographic region in mind, but I would like to end up with employment in a larger city for the foreseeable future (Boston, NYC, DC, SF would be high on my list). In the chemistry side of pharma/agro there’s been a lot of outsourcing of jobs overseas, so I was curious to see if this impacted the IP side.

There isn't really outsourcing of jobs. There has been a dip in EE/CS patent litigation in recent years, but bio/chem should continue to be stable for the foreseeable future. Unless there's some huge change in the law, there's always going to be a good chunk of ANDA litigation.

Additionally, I know this isn't the subforum for this, but I was wondering what types of law schools to look into if I go that route. Undergrad GPA was 3.82 with Phi Beta Kappa from a public Ivy, and I have a 4.00 in my PhD program. I generally do standardized testing well (97th percentile GRE verbal and 96th percentile writing), so I have faith that I could do well on the LSAT after appropriate preparation. Are there any schools especially noteworthy for IP?

Attend the best school you can. The various IP specialty rankings aren't really taken into consideration by employers.