Considering the idea of being a lawyer Forum

[Johann]

A robust sense of self-loathing.

[clshopeful]

Winning arguments has always been a passion of mine. I love the idea of looking up facts and details in order to come out on top through legitimate logic(and make the other party feel like an idiot while I'm at it).

I quit school when I was young and will need to finish that off before I were to even start to realistically consider this path. But I feel it's worth looking into because I am not going to be one of those people that blows their life savings and ends up in debt over a career path that was never going to work out for them.

What I would like to know is, what kind of strengths are required to pursue this career path and why.

90% of what lawyers do is read, research, and write. Not much arguing happens, at all, unless you're a litigator.

[juzam_djinn]

Winning arguments has always been a passion of mine. I love the idea of looking up facts and details in order to come out on top through legitimate logic(and make the other party feel like an idiot while I'm at it).

I quit school when I was young and will need to finish that off before I were to even start to realistically consider this path. But I feel it's worth looking into because I am not going to be one of those people that blows their life savings and ends up in debt over a career path that was never going to work out for them.

What I would like to know is, what kind of strengths are required to pursue this career path and why.

90% of what lawyers do is read, research, and write. Not much arguing happens, at all, unless you're a litigator.

...what types of lawyer do you think the majority are?

[clshopeful]

Winning arguments has always been a passion of mine. I love the idea of looking up facts and details in order to come out on top through legitimate logic(and make the other party feel like an idiot while I'm at it).

I quit school when I was young and will need to finish that off before I were to even start to realistically consider this path. But I feel it's worth looking into because I am not going to be one of those people that blows their life savings and ends up in debt over a career path that was never going to work out for them.

What I would like to know is, what kind of strengths are required to pursue this career path and why.

90% of what lawyers do is read, research, and write. Not much arguing happens, at all, unless you're a litigator.

...what types of lawyer do you think the majority are?

Litigator as in the one actually arguing before the court; not the associate in the office who does the research and goes through thousands of pages of discovery.

Litigation associate and being an actual litigator are two completely different things

inb4 "the ones doing the research are the ones who formulate the aruments"... Yeah, I'm sure thats what OP wants; to do research and create arguments on paper and then never argue them himself

[UnicornHunter]

Winning arguments has always been a passion of mine. I love the idea of looking up facts and details in order to come out on top through legitimate logic(and make the other party feel like an idiot while I'm at it).

I quit school when I was young and will need to finish that off before I were to even start to realistically consider this path. But I feel it's worth looking into because I am not going to be one of those people that blows their life savings and ends up in debt over a career path that was never going to work out for them.

What I would like to know is, what kind of strengths are required to pursue this career path and why.

90% of what lawyers do is read, research, and write. Not much arguing happens, at all, unless you're a litigator.

...what types of lawyer do you think the majority are?

Litigator as in the one actually arguing before the court; not the associate in the office who does the research and goes through thousands of pages of discovery.

Litigation associate and being an actual litigator are two completely different things

Even most of court can hardly be said to be "arguing" in any normal sense of the word. Unless you count bickering about jury instructions and the rules of evidence.

[clshopeful]

Winning arguments has always been a passion of mine. I love the idea of looking up facts and details in order to come out on top through legitimate logic(and make the other party feel like an idiot while I'm at it).


Even most of court can hardly be said to be "arguing" in any normal sense of the word. Unless you count bickering about jury instructions and the rules of evidence.

True; the average person's idea of a "lawyer" is a professional arguer... Movies/tv distorting the hell out of what a lawyer really does

[Lazarus102]

Winning arguments has always been a passion of mine. I love the idea of looking up facts and details in order to come out on top through legitimate logic(and make the other party feel like an idiot while I'm at it).


Even most of court can hardly be said to be "arguing" in any normal sense of the word. Unless you count bickering about jury instructions and the rules of evidence.

True; the average person's idea of a "lawyer" is a professional arguer... Movies/tv distorting the hell out of what a lawyer really does

I was afraid of that. It can be extremely difficult picking a profession because of the over glorification of most jobs by the media. How am I to know what to go for when the perception of most jobs is a lie?

[UnicornHunter]

Winning arguments has always been a passion of mine. I love the idea of looking up facts and details in order to come out on top through legitimate logic(and make the other party feel like an idiot while I'm at it).


Even most of court can hardly be said to be "arguing" in any normal sense of the word. Unless you count bickering about jury instructions and the rules of evidence.

True; the average person's idea of a "lawyer" is a professional arguer... Movies/tv distorting the hell out of what a lawyer really does

I was afraid of that. It can be extremely difficult picking a profession because of the over glorification of most jobs by the media. How am I to know what to go for when the perception of most jobs is a lie?

Go to the closest courthouse and sit in on a trial.

[pancakes3]

How am I to know what to go for when the perception of most jobs is a lie?

Don't pick a job based on what you see on TV?

[Lazarus102]

How am I to know what to go for when the perception of most jobs is a lie?

Don't pick a job based on what you see on TV?

Easier said than done. I mean it's not like I can just walk into random buildings and watch people work. A courthouse maybe but if I decide not to go with lawyer then it's back to limitless possibilities with limited or misleading information on them.

I understand that going outside of a lawyer career is not in line with this section of the forum but to be fair I had originally posted this in off topic.

I guess I could ask you law students/graduates what kind of process you went through to find the career that was ideal for you (not including those of you that are following in another's footsteps or always knew they wanted to be a lawyer)?

[A. Nony Mouse]

Talk to family/friends about what they do and ask if you can spend a day observing them at work, or if they can put you in touch with people doing jobs that sound interesting to you, and ask those people about what they do.

Go to your school's career center and take one of those career compatibility tests (or a number of different ones). They're kind of bullshit, but can be helpful in gathering some information about jobs.

[Lazarus102]

Talk to family/friends about what they do and ask if you can spend a day observing them at work, or if they can put you in touch with people doing jobs that sound interesting to you, and ask those people about what they do.

Go to your school's career center and take one of those career compatibility tests (or a number of different ones). They're kind of bullshit, but can be helpful in gathering some information about jobs.

Your avatar reminds me of this XD. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zHj-qQstGfc

Also my family lives mostly on Vancouver island and I'm in Toronto. I only have 2 friends, one is online and lives in the states and the other works landscaping(no mystery to that kinda work). I thought about taking one of those kinda tests but I am not currently going to school, I'm in the process of planning a big move so school will happen sometime after.

So ya I suppose those tests are the only realistic option for those that don't have a lot of social networking going on?

[UnicornHunter]

What are you doing right now?

[Lazarus102]

What are you doing right now?

Sitting on my duff. I'm a total procrastinator. It doesn't help that I have ADHD. But before you go on about how half your friends have ADHD, my level of it is fairly severe. Comparing common ADHD to mine is like comparing a guy with a stubbed toe to a guy with no legs. I have extreme issues with focusing on anything that does not interest me and even things that I have taken interest in I have issues focusing on for more than a few months.

I am hoping that when I move to a new province that I will be able to get an official diagnosis for this so I can get some drugs to take care of it but the last time I tried here I had to wait several months just to be told that it'd only get partial coverage and would still cost me 1k.

[kalvano]

Welcome to being an adult. Half of what you do won't be interesting. You'll still have to focus on it.

[UnicornHunter]

Welcome to being an adult. Half of what you do won't be interesting. You'll still have to focus on it.

This is incredibly optimistic.

[clshopeful]

How am I to know what to go for when the perception of most jobs is a lie?

Don't pick a job based on what you see on TV?

Easier said than done. I mean it's not like I can just walk into random buildings and watch people work. A courthouse maybe but if I decide not to go with lawyer then it's back to limitless possibilities with limited or misleading information on them.

I understand that going outside of a lawyer career is not in line with this section of the forum but to be fair I had originally posted this in off topic.

I guess I could ask you law students/graduates what kind of process you went through to find the career that was ideal for you (not including those of you that are following in another's footsteps or always knew they wanted to be a lawyer)?

Reality check: most jobs aren't fun or sexy or super appealing. Accountant; secretary; lawyer; doctor; worker at GNC Supplements; banker; teacher; congressman... all are probably pretty boring but might "sound" really [or somewhat] cool. Like an FBI investigator, everyone thinks "OMG that'd be so fun!" when in actuality, i wouldnt be suprised to hear one of them say "yeah I do paper work and other small things 90% of the time; 10% I am busting someone, but the amount of time/paperwork/effort that goes into a bust is 90% of it".

For me, I always knew 100% I'd be a lawyer -- always appealed to me; I like the long hours; I like the difficulty, the complexity, the knowledge required. I like that it takes 7 yrs+ of schooling, because that means not any regular Joe Shmoe can go become one; you have to have drive, ambition, persistence -- I like knowing lawyers are held to high standards, that people rely on lawyers, that lawyers have knowledge about things the average person is totally ignorant of. Also, high pay and good lateral options. I like that being a lawyer is a serious job, not some AT&T sales rep job where when you leave work, you can take your mind off it and forget about it, and need nothing more than some knowledge of phones/phone plans and a GED. I like lawyers are masters of language, interpretation, argumentation, writing, reading, etc.

Above all, I like that it's highly demanding and requires serious ambition to become one. WHen you tell someone you're a lawyer, they instantly know "Ok, this guy is ambitious, has drive, has gone to college and law school", versus "I work at a insurance company" sounds like that person is content with average and it doesn't show that person has any particular education/drive.

Not to talk shit on average job people, but I never could understand how someone could be content with a regular office job where you answer phones, send mail, and do other clerical bs all day long.. I want something challenging, rewarding, something that takes a ton of effort to succeed at. One benefit of having a regular job, though, is being able to leave work, forget about work, and enjoy yourself.. .Lawyers are usually less happy than the regular person w/ a regular job... But I'm willing to sacrifice some.

/end rant

[A. Nony Mouse]

Oh honey.

[jkpolk]

How am I to know what to go for when the perception of most jobs is a lie?

Don't pick a job based on what you see on TV?

Easier said than done. I mean it's not like I can just walk into random buildings and watch people work. A courthouse maybe but if I decide not to go with lawyer then it's back to limitless possibilities with limited or misleading information on them.

I understand that going outside of a lawyer career is not in line with this section of the forum but to be fair I had originally posted this in off topic.

I guess I could ask you law students/graduates what kind of process you went through to find the career that was ideal for you (not including those of you that are following in another's footsteps or always knew they wanted to be a lawyer)?

Reality check: most jobs aren't fun or sexy or super appealing. Accountant; secretary; lawyer; doctor; worker at GNC Supplements; banker; teacher; congressman... all are probably pretty boring but might "sound" really [or somewhat] cool. Like an FBI investigator, everyone thinks "OMG that'd be so fun!" when in actuality, i wouldnt be suprised to hear one of them say "yeah I do paper work and other small things 90% of the time; 10% I am busting someone, but the amount of time/paperwork/effort that goes into a bust is 90% of it".

For me, I always knew 100% I'd be a lawyer -- always appealed to me; I like the long hours; I like the difficulty, the complexity, the knowledge required. I like that it takes 7 yrs+ of schooling, because that means not any regular Joe Shmoe can go become one; you have to have drive, ambition, persistence -- I like knowing lawyers are held to high standards, that people rely on lawyers, that lawyers have knowledge about things the average person is totally ignorant of. Also, high pay and good lateral options. I like that being a lawyer is a serious job, not some AT&T sales rep job where when you leave work, you can take your mind off it and forget about it, and need nothing more than some knowledge of phones/phone plans and a GED. I like lawyers are masters of language, interpretation, argumentation, writing, reading, etc.

Above all, I like that it's highly demanding and requires serious ambition to become one. WHen you tell someone you're a lawyer, they instantly know "Ok, this guy is ambitious, has drive, has gone to college and law school", versus "I work at a insurance company" sounds like that person is content with average and it doesn't show that person has any particular education/drive.

Not to talk shit on average job people, but I never could understand how someone could be content with a regular office job where you answer phones, send mail, and do other clerical bs all day long.. I want something challenging, rewarding, something that takes a ton of effort to succeed at. One benefit of having a regular job, though, is being able to leave work, forget about work, and enjoy yourself.. .Lawyers are usually less happy than the regular person w/ a regular job... But I'm willing to sacrifice some.

/end rant

[sd5289]

Oh honey.

[totesTheGoat]

Not to talk shit on average job people, but I never could understand how someone could be content with a regular office job where you answer phones, send mail, and do other clerical bs all day long.. I want something challenging, rewarding, something that takes a ton of effort to succeed at.

Can't tell if sarcastic or not.

Isn't one of the biggest complaints about being a lawyer that you spend 12 hours a day doing mundane paperwork?

at OP: You shouldn't be a lawyer if you're just gunning for money and you like arguing. You'll hate yourself.

[patentlitigatrix]

Winning arguments has always been a passion of mine. I love the idea of looking up facts and details in order to come out on top through legitimate logic(and make the other party feel like an idiot while I'm at it).

If you do go to law school, I'd reconsider this approach to your work, even as a litigator. Good lawyers aren't myopically focused on winning every argument. They will concede on minor things even if they know when they are right if pushing the issues doesn't provide benefit to their client, as it is not worth the time or the client's money to bicker about these sorts of things. Being a litigator in particular requires enormous amounts of patience and negotiation skills in dealing with opposing counsel, co-counsel, and even clients and judges. Wanting to make the other side looks like idiots is a terrible goal because it pits you against them and makes you overly hostile, when you should be treating your opposing counsel with civility and as if they are worthy adversaries (whether you think so or not).

[zot1]

You don't always go to law school and then come out earning (a lot of) money.

Even litigators (who argue in court the most) understand that not every point needs to be won.

If you were in court and always tried to make the other side look like idiots, it might make the jury not like you. You'd be surprised how often the jury votes a certain way based on what they think of the attorneys arguing the case.

Even if you go to law school, nothing guarantees you'll end up spending your days winning arguments and making others look like idiots. You might actually have to take a job you have zero interest in because of the economy.

Sometimes, you get losing cases where the objective is not to win, but to mitigate the losses.

Please, don't become a lawyer because it looks cool on TV.

If you want to learn more about different careers, find someone who does something you're interested in, contact them and see if they'd meet you for coffee to tell you about what they do and how they got there. They might even let you shadow them for a day. However, don't comment on how you like to make others look like idiots—if you haven't noticed already, it makes people not like you.

Further, to get far in a law career, you have to be somewhat likable.

[totesTheGoat]

Further, to get far in a law career, you have to be somewhat likable.

This is an underrated point. In order to be a lawyer, you need to be able to get work. You'll never maintain a book of business if you are unlikeable.

[ReasonableNprudent]

I can't believe no one has said this yet, but, flame?

Older and thinking wants to go back to school to be a lawyer because he likes arguing and making people feel bad. Won't be underpaid and with debt. Also, lazy with add and comparing being actual lawyer with TV law. Also, how does one find out what doing a job is like? Probably best to take a test thingy.

This cannot be real life.

(Note: I imagine we all know successful people with adHD the at are/were good students. Doesn't look like OP has his symptoms under control enough for academic rigor or actual work, if real.)