Top Law Schools

for instance, if i wanted to work as a civil rights attorney or work as a DA?

Yes, it matters. It always matters.

You're joking, right

so top school graduates are fighting/competing for ñow paying govt jobs?

What is a civil rights attorney?

ramble ramble prestige ramble ramble civil rights

tl;dr:

1) good luck and follow your dreams!

2) for da's office, go to school where you want to work, just don't go to a TTT

lillawyer2 wrote:so top school graduates are fighting/competing for ñow paying govt jobs?

Yes.

malleus discentium wrote:What is a civil rights attorney?

Includes attorneys doing things like suing local police departments for excessive force claims and BOP for prisoner claims. Often closely resembles personal injury practice.

OP, the ranking doesn't matter so much for most of those kinds of jobs, but where you go still matters. Don't go to school in Iowa if you want to be a DA in California. Figure out whether your proposed employers actually hire out of the school you're considering. Make sure you have a backup plan. Don't go into debt.

The most important thing to understand is that no matter what you want to do, you may not be able to get that job postgrad.

What Nony says is spot on: you want to go to a school that the local DA office hires from. Also, proximity helps you intern with the office during the semester and this can help you get hired.

Good luck!

malleus discentium wrote:What is a civil rights attorney?

OP is probably thinking of DOJ Civil Rights attorneys

yes, op, prestige will matter for these positions

If you want to work human rights (USAO), do Department of Justice/Homeland Security, or work higher profile immigration rights, landlord/tenant stuff, yes you need a high ranking school, or strong grades at a T1 in the region you wanna be in.

County prosecutor probably doesn't require high grades or prestige, but they gotta believe that's what you want.

twenty wrote:ramble ramble prestige ramble ramble civil rights

tl;dr:

1) good luck and follow your dreams!

2) for da's office, go to school where you want to work, just don't go to a TTT

Don't go to a TTT? What type of baseless comment is this? I know plenty of TTT graduates who work as ADAs. Assuming you are median or better, you shouldn't have trouble getting into a DA's office, especially if you show a legitimate interest in criminal law and trial work throughout law school.

I hated trolls like you when I was considering attending law school.

BaileyJohnson wrote:

twenty wrote:ramble ramble prestige ramble ramble civil rights

tl;dr:

1) good luck and follow your dreams!

2) for da's office, go to school where you want to work, just don't go to a TTT

Don't go to a TTT? What type of baseless comment is this? I know plenty of TTT graduates who work as ADAs. Assuming you are median or better, you shouldn't have trouble getting into a DA's office, especially if you show a legitimate interest in criminal law and trial work throughout law school.

I hated trolls like you when I was considering attending law school.

The least helpful advice is "I know plenty of TTT graduates who did . . . ." Unless you know hundreds to thousands of TTT grads from all over the country, and have some legit data that supports your comment, this is a "baseless comment."

In the real world, rankings matter. Employers know how prestigious one school is over another and make hiring decisions based on that prestige. YES it does matter what law school you go to. It always matters. Moreover, "shouldn't have trouble getting into a DA's office" if you are merely above the median at a TTT; doubtful. Even if his information is 100% true, this does not apply to every part of the country. I know that people at my school (TT), in a large east coast metropolitan area, have very little chance at becoming a ADA. Maybe down the line, but certainly not out of law school. So this advice certainly does not apply to every part of the country. My understanding is ADA jobs are difficult to obtain. Sometimes, harder to get than big law jobs because there are less openings.

OP: You need to balance debt with law school ranking and location. Law schools are very regional (unless you attend a T14). So where you go to law school, plan on practicing in that area. Plus, you have to balance that out with debt. You mention not wanting to make a ton of money which is noble, but not realistic if you have high student loans. That is the problem with law school, it costs so much to attend and it is difficult to find a job that can realistically pay off the loans.

nick417 wrote:

BaileyJohnson wrote:

twenty wrote:ramble ramble prestige ramble ramble civil rights

tl;dr:

1) good luck and follow your dreams!

2) for da's office, go to school where you want to work, just don't go to a TTT

Don't go to a TTT? What type of baseless comment is this? I know plenty of TTT graduates who work as ADAs. Assuming you are median or better, you shouldn't have trouble getting into a DA's office, especially if you show a legitimate interest in criminal law and trial work throughout law school.

I hated trolls like you when I was considering attending law school.

The least helpful advice is "I know plenty of TTT graduates who did . . . ." Unless you know hundreds to thousands of TTT grads from all over the country, and have some legit data that supports your comment, this is a "baseless comment."

In the real world, rankings matter. Employers know how prestigious one school is over another and make hiring decisions based on that prestige. YES it does matter what law school you go to. It always matters. Moreover, "shouldn't have trouble getting into a DA's office" if you are merely above the median at a TTT; doubtful. Even if his information is 100% true, this does not apply to every part of the country. I know that people at my school (TT), in a large east coast metropolitan area, have very little chance at becoming a ADA. Maybe down the line, but certainly not out of law school. So this advice certainly does not apply to every part of the country. My understanding is ADA jobs are difficult to obtain. Sometimes, harder to get than big law jobs because there are less openings.

OP: You need to balance debt with law school ranking and location. Law schools are very regional (unless you attend a T14). So where you go to law school, plan on practicing in that area. Plus, you have to balance that out with debt. You mention not wanting to make a ton of money which is noble, but not realistic if you have high student loans. That is the problem with law school, it costs so much to attend and it is difficult to find a job that can realistically pay off the loans.

im in no way trying to advocate for TTTs, but i do have hundreds if not thousands of data points of TTT grads and theyre doing fine. the biggest problem with law is people have to practice law and dont like it. many people leave the field. if you arent trying to get biglaw or academia, i dont think you really have that much of an advantage at all in a T14 or TT over TTT. T14 isnt going to get you anywhere wrt to govt hiring, small firm hiring, or running your own shop. outside of biglaw, the jobs go to those who network and hustle. and whether you go T14 or TTT, your networking skills are whats going to matter.

I actually kinda mostly agree with Johann. Some employers care about school, some employers care about grades, some employers care about school and grades, and some employers care only about hustle/connections/experience. Generalizing wildly, I'd say that academia/biglaw care about grades and school (maybe also super prestigious PI?), the feds care more about grades than school, and PDs/DAs/legal aid/small firms are more interested in experience/dedication (with the obvious caveat that it can vary by office).

But I'd throw in the debt caveat that Johann won't - I would not recommend going to a TTT and taking out massive debt to get one of the jobs that you can get out of a TTT, given the pay such jobs usually offer. Johann is on the "PAYE for life" train, so doesn't care, but I have a hard time getting completely behind that.

I don't really have anything constructive to say about BaileyJohnson's comment except that the whole "you shouldn't have any trouble getting in" bit is borderline reckless. I hope no one actually attends a TTT with the expectation that they can just waltz into a DA's office on graduation by showing a legitimate interest in criminal law.

twenty wrote:I don't really have anything constructive to say about BaileyJohnson's comment except that the whole "you shouldn't have any trouble getting in" bit is borderline reckless. I hope no one actually attends a TTT with the expectation that they can just waltz into a DA's office on graduation by showing a legitimate interest in criminal law.

And even if you do show an interest, you might still not get it because there are a lot of grads competing for these jobs. And if you don't get it, you're stuck with a criminal heavy resume trying to find something non-criminal, which is not that easy.

JohannDeMann wrote:

nick417 wrote:

BaileyJohnson wrote:

twenty wrote:ramble ramble prestige ramble ramble civil rights

tl;dr:

1) good luck and follow your dreams!

2) for da's office, go to school where you want to work, just don't go to a TTT

Don't go to a TTT? What type of baseless comment is this? I know plenty of TTT graduates who work as ADAs. Assuming you are median or better, you shouldn't have trouble getting into a DA's office, especially if you show a legitimate interest in criminal law and trial work throughout law school.

I hated trolls like you when I was considering attending law school.

The least helpful advice is "I know plenty of TTT graduates who did . . . ." Unless you know hundreds to thousands of TTT grads from all over the country, and have some legit data that supports your comment, this is a "baseless comment."

In the real world, rankings matter. Employers know how prestigious one school is over another and make hiring decisions based on that prestige. YES it does matter what law school you go to. It always matters. Moreover, "shouldn't have trouble getting into a DA's office" if you are merely above the median at a TTT; doubtful. Even if his information is 100% true, this does not apply to every part of the country. I know that people at my school (TT), in a large east coast metropolitan area, have very little chance at becoming a ADA. Maybe down the line, but certainly not out of law school. So this advice certainly does not apply to every part of the country. My understanding is ADA jobs are difficult to obtain. Sometimes, harder to get than big law jobs because there are less openings.

OP: You need to balance debt with law school ranking and location. Law schools are very regional (unless you attend a T14). So where you go to law school, plan on practicing in that area. Plus, you have to balance that out with debt. You mention not wanting to make a ton of money which is noble, but not realistic if you have high student loans. That is the problem with law school, it costs so much to attend and it is difficult to find a job that can realistically pay off the loans.

im in no way trying to advocate for TTTs, but i do have hundreds if not thousands of data points of TTT grads and theyre doing fine. the biggest problem with law is people have to practice law and dont like it. many people leave the field. if you arent trying to get biglaw or academia, i dont think you really have that much of an advantage at all in a T14 or TT over TTT. T14 isnt going to get you anywhere wrt to govt hiring, small firm hiring, or running your own shop. outside of biglaw, the jobs go to those who network and hustle. and whether you go T14 or TTT, your networking skills are whats going to matter.

You have thousands of data points on TTT grads? Where are you getting these data points from?

BigZuck wrote:

JohannDeMann wrote:

nick417 wrote:

BaileyJohnson wrote:

twenty wrote:ramble ramble prestige ramble ramble civil rights

tl;dr:

1) good luck and follow your dreams!

2) for da's office, go to school where you want to work, just don't go to a TTT

Don't go to a TTT? What type of baseless comment is this? I know plenty of TTT graduates who work as ADAs. Assuming you are median or better, you shouldn't have trouble getting into a DA's office, especially if you show a legitimate interest in criminal law and trial work throughout law school.

I hated trolls like you when I was considering attending law school.

The least helpful advice is "I know plenty of TTT graduates who did . . . ." Unless you know hundreds to thousands of TTT grads from all over the country, and have some legit data that supports your comment, this is a "baseless comment."

In the real world, rankings matter. Employers know how prestigious one school is over another and make hiring decisions based on that prestige. YES it does matter what law school you go to. It always matters. Moreover, "shouldn't have trouble getting into a DA's office" if you are merely above the median at a TTT; doubtful. Even if his information is 100% true, this does not apply to every part of the country. I know that people at my school (TT), in a large east coast metropolitan area, have very little chance at becoming a ADA. Maybe down the line, but certainly not out of law school. So this advice certainly does not apply to every part of the country. My understanding is ADA jobs are difficult to obtain. Sometimes, harder to get than big law jobs because there are less openings.

OP: You need to balance debt with law school ranking and location. Law schools are very regional (unless you attend a T14). So where you go to law school, plan on practicing in that area. Plus, you have to balance that out with debt. You mention not wanting to make a ton of money which is noble, but not realistic if you have high student loans. That is the problem with law school, it costs so much to attend and it is difficult to find a job that can realistically pay off the loans.

im in no way trying to advocate for TTTs, but i do have hundreds if not thousands of data points of TTT grads and theyre doing fine. the biggest problem with law is people have to practice law and dont like it. many people leave the field. if you arent trying to get biglaw or academia, i dont think you really have that much of an advantage at all in a T14 or TT over TTT. T14 isnt going to get you anywhere wrt to govt hiring, small firm hiring, or running your own shop. outside of biglaw, the jobs go to those who network and hustle. and whether you go T14 or TTT, your networking skills are whats going to matter.

You have thousands of data points on TTT grads? Where are you getting these data points from?

probably about a thousand. i graduated from a TTT. 350 per class. my friend group also involves another TTT. so ive probably come in contact/heard about over 1000 grads at this point.

JohannDeMann wrote:

BigZuck wrote:

JohannDeMann wrote:

nick417 wrote:

BaileyJohnson wrote:

twenty wrote:ramble ramble prestige ramble ramble civil rights

tl;dr:

1) good luck and follow your dreams!

2) for da's office, go to school where you want to work, just don't go to a TTT

Don't go to a TTT? What type of baseless comment is this? I know plenty of TTT graduates who work as ADAs. Assuming you are median or better, you shouldn't have trouble getting into a DA's office, especially if you show a legitimate interest in criminal law and trial work throughout law school.

I hated trolls like you when I was considering attending law school.

The least helpful advice is "I know plenty of TTT graduates who did . . . ." Unless you know hundreds to thousands of TTT grads from all over the country, and have some legit data that supports your comment, this is a "baseless comment."

In the real world, rankings matter. Employers know how prestigious one school is over another and make hiring decisions based on that prestige. YES it does matter what law school you go to. It always matters. Moreover, "shouldn't have trouble getting into a DA's office" if you are merely above the median at a TTT; doubtful. Even if his information is 100% true, this does not apply to every part of the country. I know that people at my school (TT), in a large east coast metropolitan area, have very little chance at becoming a ADA. Maybe down the line, but certainly not out of law school. So this advice certainly does not apply to every part of the country. My understanding is ADA jobs are difficult to obtain. Sometimes, harder to get than big law jobs because there are less openings.

OP: You need to balance debt with law school ranking and location. Law schools are very regional (unless you attend a T14). So where you go to law school, plan on practicing in that area. Plus, you have to balance that out with debt. You mention not wanting to make a ton of money which is noble, but not realistic if you have high student loans. That is the problem with law school, it costs so much to attend and it is difficult to find a job that can realistically pay off the loans.

im in no way trying to advocate for TTTs, but i do have hundreds if not thousands of data points of TTT grads and theyre doing fine. the biggest problem with law is people have to practice law and dont like it. many people leave the field. if you arent trying to get biglaw or academia, i dont think you really have that much of an advantage at all in a T14 or TT over TTT. T14 isnt going to get you anywhere wrt to govt hiring, small firm hiring, or running your own shop. outside of biglaw, the jobs go to those who network and hustle. and whether you go T14 or TTT, your networking skills are whats going to matter.

You have thousands of data points on TTT grads? Where are you getting these data points from?

probably about a thousand. i graduated from a TTT. 350 per class. my friend group also involves another TTT. so ive probably come in contact/heard about over 1000 grads at this point.

Dude you haven't come in contact with or heard about over 1000 grads at two TTTs. And you definitely can't say that you know enough about each and every situation to say they're all fine.

Stop trying to mislead people in the on topics you weirdo.

p-side l&e call themselves civil rights attorneys

It's not that absurd either --PACER classifies title vii, ada, etc. as civil rights cases

BigZuck wrote:

JohannDeMann wrote:

BigZuck wrote:

JohannDeMann wrote:

nick417 wrote:

BaileyJohnson wrote:

twenty wrote:ramble ramble prestige ramble ramble civil rights

tl;dr:

1) good luck and follow your dreams!

2) for da's office, go to school where you want to work, just don't go to a TTT

Don't go to a TTT? What type of baseless comment is this? I know plenty of TTT graduates who work as ADAs. Assuming you are median or better, you shouldn't have trouble getting into a DA's office, especially if you show a legitimate interest in criminal law and trial work throughout law school.

I hated trolls like you when I was considering attending law school.

The least helpful advice is "I know plenty of TTT graduates who did . . . ." Unless you know hundreds to thousands of TTT grads from all over the country, and have some legit data that supports your comment, this is a "baseless comment."

In the real world, rankings matter. Employers know how prestigious one school is over another and make hiring decisions based on that prestige. YES it does matter what law school you go to. It always matters. Moreover, "shouldn't have trouble getting into a DA's office" if you are merely above the median at a TTT; doubtful. Even if his information is 100% true, this does not apply to every part of the country. I know that people at my school (TT), in a large east coast metropolitan area, have very little chance at becoming a ADA. Maybe down the line, but certainly not out of law school. So this advice certainly does not apply to every part of the country. My understanding is ADA jobs are difficult to obtain. Sometimes, harder to get than big law jobs because there are less openings.

OP: You need to balance debt with law school ranking and location. Law schools are very regional (unless you attend a T14). So where you go to law school, plan on practicing in that area. Plus, you have to balance that out with debt. You mention not wanting to make a ton of money which is noble, but not realistic if you have high student loans. That is the problem with law school, it costs so much to attend and it is difficult to find a job that can realistically pay off the loans.

im in no way trying to advocate for TTTs, but i do have hundreds if not thousands of data points of TTT grads and theyre doing fine. the biggest problem with law is people have to practice law and dont like it. many people leave the field. if you arent trying to get biglaw or academia, i dont think you really have that much of an advantage at all in a T14 or TT over TTT. T14 isnt going to get you anywhere wrt to govt hiring, small firm hiring, or running your own shop. outside of biglaw, the jobs go to those who network and hustle. and whether you go T14 or TTT, your networking skills are whats going to matter.

You have thousands of data points on TTT grads? Where are you getting these data points from?

probably about a thousand. i graduated from a TTT. 350 per class. my friend group also involves another TTT. so ive probably come in contact/heard about over 1000 grads at this point.

Dude you haven't come in contact with or heard about over 1000 grads at two TTTs. And you definitely can't say that you know enough about each and every situation to say they're all fine.

Stop trying to mislead people in the on topics you weirdo.

yeah they all aren't from 2. a lot are from 2. i graduated a while ago and worked in the community and networked a lot too. its around 1000 for sure.

Maybe Johann's banging a career services employee or two. That'd give him access to a lot of data points.

Many of the most prestigious jobs (e.g. ACLU, DOJ Honors, etc.) pay poorly and yet school pedigree absolutely matters. By contrast, if you care about neither prestige nor money, then perhaps a regional school would be fine. For example, if your dream is to work at LegalAid San Diego (a very noble pursuit, despite the lack of obvious 'prestige') going to USD with a full scholarship could make sense.

i do have acquantances in admissions that are familiar with graduate data. ive also just been to a shitload of weddings meeting different people at these schools and i ask them what they do. when they respond that they work in govt, its pretty easy to pinpoint their salary/benefit package. when they respond they work for humongous insurance defense firm, also easy. its only hard when they say they work for smith and jones law firm that does _______ work. but you get a better idea when you ask where they live etc and learn about their career trajectory/outside life. then theres like hundreds who i a graduated with and i can ask one person oh yeah how are they doing with their solo practice - hes doing good he works 3 days a week and chills on referals.

i worked as a young attorney for a year and was in court everyday so id also talk to shitloads of opposing counsel and ask them about the job market etc. networked with the local young bar association. sometimes this site really makes me wonder what the fuck kind of bubble you people live in where its not believable ive talked to/heard about 1000 people in a span of 5 years as a practicing attorney graduating from a class of 350 TTT lawyers. its like a web right and ive been surrounded by TTT lawyers for the past 5 years and i just keep meeting new ones through friend of friends etc like someone my class year, knows someone 2 years below and i see them out at drinks. or one of my friends starts dating one 5 years younger and i hear about their class.

the bottom line is - if OP wants to be a lawyer without any concern over whether that job pays 45k and requires 50 hours of work a week and doing paralegal like shit for a small firm, he can do that with a TTT degree very easily.