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How much time is really necessary. I've got outlines from people who did well in my classes (same professors). I'm planning on spending a few days studying these/supplements for each class. Would these be enough of should I be outlining like everyone else

I'm merely a 1L as well but I'm assuming that

doing what everyone else does=median

doing what works best for me=not median

What works best for me is using old students' outlines and making minor changes for what the prof says in class.I'm just going through the outlines right now to learn the bll, keeping up with reading assignments, reading supplements when I have extra time, and hoping to be crushing out a couple PT's for each class around Thanksgiving

Do whatever works for you man. If you can't learn the law unless you outline it yourself, then outline it yourself. Getting comfortable with applying law to fact can only get you ahead of the game.

I found outlining to be extremely helpful, but I know people who did well that didn't outline at all. It really all just depends on how you learn best. I generally slacked on in-class readings and participation, but then I would go back through at the end of the semester and make a pretty thorough outline of the class using old outlines, class notes, supplement reading notes, and anything I found noticed when I looked over the cases again after having gone over them in class.

With that being said, practice tests are the best thing you can do at this point. If you only have time for one, do practice tests.

eagle2a wrote:How much time is really necessary. I've got outlines from people who did well in my classes (same professors). I'm planning on spending a few days studying these/supplements for each class. Would these be enough of should I be outlining like everyone else

Don't outline "like everyone else." That's a path straight to median. Studying for finals consists of two goals. 1) Exposing yourself to the material again; and 2) creating a resource that is actually useful during your exam.

Most people write 50-100 page outlines that are pretty much a rewording of the casebook. Some just copy somebody else's 50-100 page outline that is pretty much a rewording of the casebook. You have your casebook with you... you don't need some pared down version of the same thing! (BTW, I've only referenced the casebook a few times, and that was because I remembered seeing some relevant quote in a case, and wanted to get the exact language)

I have never created an outline over 18 pages long. Any longer than that and it's entirely useless in the exam room. I put in 8-15 hours of studying for each exam, depending on the complexity of the class. However, as a 1L, you're gonna need more time. This is your first go-round, so expect to spend 18 hours minimum per class studying for finals.

Here's how I approach studying for finals/outlining. I create a word document and copy down the table of contents from the relevant parts of the casebook. Then, I fill in the name of every case that we had to read in the appropriate location in the table of contents. Then, with my class notes in front of me, I step through each reading assignment for the semester. I'm not reading the cases in detail, but I'm making sure that I get any black letter law, case law, and factual application elements out of the case.

Here's an example from my Torts outline (underscores are just there to preserve indentation):

1.Strict Liability
_ _ a.Rylands v. Fletcher
_ _ _ _ i.Reservoir breaks onto neighbor’s property
_ _ _ _ ii.Strict liability?
_ _ _ _ _ _ 1.Caused injury on neighbor’s property, no matter the care
_ _ _ _ _ _ 2.Being on own land treated differently than if injured just walking down the street
_ _ _ _ _ _ 3.Natural v. non-natural source of damage
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ a.In TX is natural to pool water (necessity)
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ b.Noxious chemicals are not natural -> strict liability

Then, I read the notes and other non-case materials that are in the assigned reading. I read those more carefully, because many profs are lazy and just modify a note case into a fact pattern for the final. Those snippets get tossed right in the outline alongside the cases:

v. RSTMT for Nuisance
_ _ 1.One is subject to liability for a private nuisance if, but only if, his conduct is a legal cause of an invasion of another's interest in the private use and enjoyment of land, and the invasion is either
_ _ _ _ a. intentional and unreasonable, or
_ _ _ _ b. unintentional and otherwise actionable under the rules controlling liability for negligent or reckless conduct, or for abnormally dangerous conditions or activities.

Now, when I issue spot a trespass issue (the ability to issue spot comes partly from doing your own outline), I can go to the trespass section of my outline, which happens to be about a page and a half long. From there, I can see brief synopses of the cases we read regarding trespass, the black letter law/Restatements, and how the courts interpreted the law in certain situations.

It's simple, it results in a usable document, and it's not so time consuming.

eagle2a wrote:How much time is really necessary. I've got outlines from people who did well in my classes (same professors). I'm planning on spending a few days studying these/supplements for each class. Would these be enough of should I be outlining like everyone else

That's fine. 2-3 all nighters, even if you didn't read anything else that semester, should be enough to get As. It obviously depends on where you go to school and how smart your peers are relative to you, of course.

^^^ That's a recipe for a C at any school outside the TTTT.

White Dwarf wrote:^^^ That's a recipe for a C at any school outside the TTTT.

Not IME at a T20 before I transferred, but maybe it'd be true for you. Law students are so inefficient at studying that the bar is much lower than you'd think.

n1o2c3a4c5h6e7t wrote:

White Dwarf wrote:^^^ That's a recipe for a C at any school outside the TTTT.

Not IME at a T20 before I transferred, but maybe it'd be true for you. Law students are so inefficient at studying that the bar is much lower than you'd think.

It's still terrible advice and evidences a pretty significant lack of self-awareness. This isnt undergrad, put the time in and the results will follow. If you can study the material effectively and efficiently, thats even better. Unfortunately, you have no idea what it takes at your school to do well until it is too late.

i probably studied about 18 hours per class for finals in Fall of 1L, but actual time spent trying to study was at least triple because of internet checking/settling in procedures at the library

Well thought out answer shells. These take quite a bit of work to get right, but if you do them correctly and are able to add just a bit of extra analysis on the test you are golden for B+/A- ... which at my school is top 15-20%

totesTheGoat wrote:

eagle2a wrote:How much time is really necessary. I've got outlines from people who did well in my classes (same professors). I'm planning on spending a few days studying these/supplements for each class. Would these be enough of should I be outlining like everyone else

Don't outline "like everyone else." That's a path straight to median. Studying for finals consists of two goals. 1) Exposing yourself to the material again; and 2) creating a resource that is actually useful during your exam.

Most people write 50-100 page outlines that are pretty much a rewording of the casebook. Some just copy somebody else's 50-100 page outline that is pretty much a rewording of the casebook. You have your casebook with you... you don't need some pared down version of the same thing! (BTW, I've only referenced the casebook a few times, and that was because I remembered seeing some relevant quote in a case, and wanted to get the exact language)

I have never created an outline over 18 pages long. Any longer than that and it's entirely useless in the exam room. I put in 8-15 hours of studying for each exam, depending on the complexity of the class. However, as a 1L, you're gonna need more time. This is your first go-round, so expect to spend 18 hours minimum per class studying for finals.

Here's how I approach studying for finals/outlining. I create a word document and copy down the table of contents from the relevant parts of the casebook. Then, I fill in the name of every case that we had to read in the appropriate location in the table of contents. Then, with my class notes in front of me, I step through each reading assignment for the semester. I'm not reading the cases in detail, but I'm making sure that I get any black letter law, case law, and factual application elements out of the case.

Here's an example from my Torts outline (underscores are just there to preserve indentation):

1.Strict Liability
_ _ a.Rylands v. Fletcher
_ _ _ _ i.Reservoir breaks onto neighbor’s property
_ _ _ _ ii.Strict liability?
_ _ _ _ _ _ 1.Caused injury on neighbor’s property, no matter the care
_ _ _ _ _ _ 2.Being on own land treated differently than if injured just walking down the street
_ _ _ _ _ _ 3.Natural v. non-natural source of damage
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ a.In TX is natural to pool water (necessity)
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ b.Noxious chemicals are not natural -> strict liability

Then, I read the notes and other non-case materials that are in the assigned reading. I read those more carefully, because many profs are lazy and just modify a note case into a fact pattern for the final. Those snippets get tossed right in the outline alongside the cases:

v. RSTMT for Nuisance
_ _ 1.One is subject to liability for a private nuisance if, but only if, his conduct is a legal cause of an invasion of another's interest in the private use and enjoyment of land, and the invasion is either
_ _ _ _ a. intentional and unreasonable, or
_ _ _ _ b. unintentional and otherwise actionable under the rules controlling liability for negligent or reckless conduct, or for abnormally dangerous conditions or activities.

Now, when I issue spot a trespass issue (the ability to issue spot comes partly from doing your own outline), I can go to the trespass section of my outline, which happens to be about a page and a half long. From there, I can see brief synopses of the cases we read regarding trespass, the black letter law/Restatements, and how the courts interpreted the law in certain situations.

It's simple, it results in a usable document, and it's not so time consuming.

That assumes median is bad. One of the main tricks to doing well for the average law student without a lot of effort is to never get below median, and get above on a few exams. Never shitting the bed makes it pretty easy to get top quarter.

AReasonableMan wrote: That assumes median is bad.

Shooting for median is bad. Getting median isn't bad, but there's a lot of variables that can swing your grade up or down a +/-. It would be awful to get a B- because you shot for median, and the prof was having a bad day when they graded yours. Shoot for A, and be happy with median if you end up there.

Effingham wrote:

n1o2c3a4c5h6e7t wrote:

White Dwarf wrote:^^^ That's a recipe for a C at any school outside the TTTT.

Not IME at a T20 before I transferred, but maybe it'd be true for you. Law students are so inefficient at studying that the bar is much lower than you'd think.

It's still terrible advice and evidences a pretty significant lack of self-awareness. This isnt undergrad, put the time in and the results will follow. If you can study the material effectively and efficiently, thats even better. Unfortunately, you have no idea what it takes at your school to do well until it is too late.

Whether it's terrible advice is subjective, and I'd welcome a clarification as to how studying efficiently demonstrates a lack of self-awareness.

As to the (lots of studying) = (good grades) formula, there are plenty of people at every school who prove that wrong (whether by studying "too much" or "too little"). Your premise that one has "no idea what it takes" to do well is flawed in that there is plenty of advice percolating on the internet, from other students, and (most importantly) in the form of past exams that pretty much guides you in exactly what it takes to do well.

While law school isn't undergrad, it really isn't that much harder, and for many it's significantly easier with grade inflation and a forced curve at a B+. If you want to study for multiple months continuously (or whatever you're advocating), great, but its unnecessary. And there are plenty of people who do that and get below median.

n1o2c3a4c5h6e7t wrote:

Effingham wrote:

n1o2c3a4c5h6e7t wrote:

White Dwarf wrote:^^^ That's a recipe for a C at any school outside the TTTT.

Not IME at a T20 before I transferred, but maybe it'd be true for you. Law students are so inefficient at studying that the bar is much lower than you'd think.

It's still terrible advice and evidences a pretty significant lack of self-awareness. This isnt undergrad, put the time in and the results will follow. If you can study the material effectively and efficiently, thats even better. Unfortunately, you have no idea what it takes at your school to do well until it is too late.

Whether it's terrible advice is subjective, and I'd welcome a clarification as to how studying efficiently demonstrates a lack of self-awareness.

As to the (lots of studying) = (good grades) formula, there are plenty of people at every school who prove that wrong (whether by studying "too much" or "too little"). Your premise that one has "no idea what it takes" to do well is flawed in that there is plenty of advice percolating on the internet, from other students, and (most importantly) in the form of past exams that pretty much guides you in exactly what it takes to do well.

While law school isn't undergrad, it really isn't that much harder, and for many it's significantly easier with grade inflation and a forced curve at a B+. If you want to study for multiple months continuously (or whatever you're advocating), great, but its unnecessary. And there are plenty of people who do that and get below median.

They're the kind of exams where it's not necessary to know that much, but impossible to do well on without being well rested. Consecutive all nighters without cocaine, which you can't take before American law school exams because it's illegal in this country, is flat out impossible and dumb.

AReasonableMan wrote: They're the kind of exams where it's not necessary to know that much, but impossible to do well on without being well rested. Consecutive all nighters without cocaine, which you can't take before American law school exams because it's illegal in this country, is flat out impossible and dumb.

While I agree with you about all-nighters being terrible ways to study (really for any exam, but especially for law school exams -- not to mention the fact that they're not necessary; there's plenty of time to study if you schedule it out), I don't think the bolded statement holds up logically. It would be inadvisable to use it for your exams for any number of reasons, not the least of which is illegality (and resultant scarcity), but that doesn't mean you can't.

Appreciate all the feedback. What happens if you're below median? I go to a decent T1 (SMU) and while I'm definitely going to study my ass off for finals, I'm scared as shit about finishing below median. I don't care much for big law and would be more than happy with any job that requires a JD. Do I need to be very worried about being below median?

Being below median is a recipe for hardship at SMU. However, the chances are that you'll be at or around median after your first semester. The important thing to realize about this semester is that you can set yourself disproportionately ahead before everybody catches on. This is the one semester where knowing how to write a law school exam is going to give you a massive letter grade boost, because next semester everybody will be figuring it out.

I know you don't have a ton of free time between now and finals, but if I were in your position, I would make myself a pest. I'd be there at every office hours I could possibly make, and I would ask the professors tons of questions about what they like in an exam answer. Take copious notes and try it out. Find some practice questions (either from your professors' old exams or from the Internet) and practice writing an answer. Take that answer to the professor, and have them walk through it with you.

If you do that alongside putting a number of hours into outlining, you won't have to worry about below median. As I said above, Fall of 1L year is when effort most directly results in good grades, so don't put it to waste. You'll have almost a month after finals to recover from burning yourself out.

totesTheGoat wrote:Find some practice questions (either from your professors' old exams or from the Internet) and practice writing an answer. Take that answer to the professor, and have them walk through it with you.

This. And getting your outlines in shape (which is how you learn them).

Also, I will add that I know people who were below median at SMU and have decent jobs that they're happy with; the jobs are on the low end of the pay scale, but they also live in imminently affordable areas as a result of being in and around Dallas/North Texas.

If you're truly concerned that you're below median, there will be some early-hire employers that are hiring in December and early January for 1L summer (not biglaw, because they don't hire gradeless SMU 1Ls like they do at HYSCCN or occasionally at other T14s; more like Dallas and Harris County DAs and some miscellaneous judges, firms, and in-house slots), so be ready to go with your resume and cover letter as soon as those jobs hit symplicity. You can (and should) also mass-mail in December, but really no one will hire mass-mail candidates prior to grades coming in.

BVest's advice is top notch.

I'll add that we're constantly getting emails about local job openings for $15/hour during the school year. It's probably not the best idea for 1L, but certainly worth considering for your 2L year. You can work 10-20 hours and get some law firm experience on your resume.

Finally, leverage any contacts you have. Find people who can mentor you (besides your Inn mentors) and ask them for help both on the school front and on the employment front. There are plenty of people (*cough* me *cough*) who are either upperclassmen at SMU, attorneys in DFW, or faculty/staff at SMU that are more than willing to take a little time out of their day to help a 1L with some 1 on 1 guidance, or at least point you to the right people to help you out. It could be as simple as an email or a cup of coffee (*cough* or a PM *cough*), and you never know what you may get just for reaching out to somebody.

I think I need to get this cough checked out.

+1 on focusing on the practice exams. Outlining just exposes/reinforces your understanding of the BLL. Being able to articulate it effectively/persuasively/thoroughly is what gets you the A.

re: studying efficiently - putting in 4 hrs in working and reworking practice exams is about 10x as effective as putting in 4 hrs memorizing BLL.

NoBladesNoBows wrote:

pancakes3 wrote:+1 on focusing on the practice exams. Outlining just exposes/reinforces your understanding of the BLL. Being able to articulate it effectively/persuasively/thoroughly is what gets you the A.

re: studying efficiently - putting in 4 hrs in working and reworking practice exams is about 10x as effective as putting in 4 hrs memorizing BLL.

Would you mind elaborating a little bit on how one would effectively rework a practice exam? Just do it again after reviewing it or what?

You can just redo it, but doing that would drive me nuts.

One way you could do it would be to cross off the issues that you've already spotted for each question, and rewrite the exam without using those already spotted issues. That helps you spot secondary issues.

Another would be changing a few key facts in the fact pattern and rewriting the answer based on that. If you can rework the fact pattern and write a good essay, your understanding of the material will be great.

acr wrote:I'm merely a 1L as well but I'm assuming that

doing what everyone else does=median

doing what works best for me=not median

I think there is some truth to this. For me, reading supplements and making my own outlines was a tremendous time-suck that resulted in top 25% grades. By my 2L year, I was studying my own notes + 3-4 outlines and my grades were top 10% thereafter. I only read cases where teachers cold called. Some classes I didn't even purchase the casebook.

It's important to realize that your time is limited in law school, so maximize your study by cutting out time wastes like supplements and outlining.