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PJam1989 · Post by **PJam1989** » Wed Nov 04, 2015 10:01 pm

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A. Nony Mouse · Post by **A. Nony Mouse** » Wed Nov 04, 2015 10:13 pm

Doesn't the fact that so many people do leave suggest that many people hate the work? The alternative is that all the people who leave are stupid or supremely altruistic. Also, one point is not to go into debt in the first place. Another is that those people were never going to make partner.

Clemenceau · Post by **Clemenceau** » Wed Nov 04, 2015 10:15 pm

Also, its not like you just hang around long enough til they make you partner.

fats provolone · Post by **fats provolone** » Wed Nov 04, 2015 10:17 pm

Clemenceau wrote:Also, its not like you just hang around long enough til they make you partner.

shit, you've been here 10 years? have a million dollars

PJam1989 · Post by **PJam1989** » Wed Nov 04, 2015 10:21 pm

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gotCentred · Post by **gotCentred** » Wed Nov 04, 2015 10:50 pm

OP- have you ever had a real job?

zot1 · Post by **zot1** » Wed Nov 04, 2015 10:57 pm

Ask yourself how much is your freedom worth to you? Then ask yourself how many people you think in their deathbed say, "oh golly, I wish I had had more allnighters and made partner and worked just a little harder!"

pancakes3 · Post by **pancakes3** » Wed Nov 04, 2015 11:08 pm

Are hot dogs really that bad? I mean, why do people usually stop eating at like 3? I mean don't they want to punch their ticket to Coney Island for a shot at Joey Chestnut? My GOoooooOOOOOD, it's just hot dogs.

zot1 · Post by **zot1** » Wed Nov 04, 2015 11:17 pm

I mean... It depends on the type of hot dogs.

juzam_djinn · Post by **juzam_djinn** » Wed Nov 04, 2015 11:23 pm

PJam1989 wrote:I guess the thing that stands out is that people STILL do make partner. People still enter BigLaw as associates being told they will probably never make partner, rise through the ranks, become multi-millionaires, and love the work. More importantly, people will continue to do so as the future progresses. What personalities are receptive to this?

answer slightly depends on whether you're talking about partner in lit or one in trans...

Desert Fox · Post by **Desert Fox** » Wed Nov 04, 2015 11:26 pm

fats provolone · Post by **fats provolone** » Thu Nov 05, 2015 2:13 am

Desert Fox wrote:Maybe this is just a DC thing, but I think leaving to go in gov't is the best thing you can do for your partnership prospects.

this is probably what I will do if I can ever stomach the paycut

mvp99 · Post by **mvp99** » Thu Nov 05, 2015 4:47 am

most people I've talked to said they were simply tired of the unpredictable hours. They were usually 3-4 years in and were able to secured good jobs elsewhere that allowed them to work 9 to 6. They took a pay cut but they still had six figure salaries.

Troianii · Post by **Troianii** » Thu Nov 05, 2015 5:54 am

A. Nony Mouse wrote:Doesn't the fact that so many people do leave suggest that many people hate the work? The alternative is that all the people who leave are stupid or supremely altruistic. Also, one point is not to go into debt in the first place. Another is that those people were never going to make partner.

I thought I heard - could be mistaken, and could have heard misinformation - but I thought I heard that a lot of junior associates are pushed out after their first couple years? The idea being that there's a really high demand, and a lot of people aren't up to snuff and so are pushed out (rather than leaving of their own volition).

DrRighteous · Post by **DrRighteous** » Thu Nov 05, 2015 6:10 am

On top of all of the above, partnership isn't necessarily that much better. In some firms a rising partner will have to go into debt to buy in. It is also my understanding that in many firms, a handful of rainmaking partners get the interesting work with other partners taking on the service role. And the hours are usually still brutal.

PJam1989 · Post by **PJam1989** » Thu Nov 05, 2015 6:17 am

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A. Nony Mouse · Post by **A. Nony Mouse** » Thu Nov 05, 2015 8:07 am

Troianii wrote:
A. Nony Mouse wrote:Doesn't the fact that so many people do leave suggest that many people hate the work? The alternative is that all the people who leave are stupid or supremely altruistic. Also, one point is not to go into debt in the first place. Another is that those people were never going to make partner.
I thought I heard - could be mistaken, and could have heard misinformation - but I thought I heard that a lot of junior associates are pushed out after their first couple years? The idea being that there's a really high demand, and a lot of people aren't up to snuff and so are pushed out (rather than leaving of their own volition).

Then why did you ask if the work is that bad/why people are leaving as if it's purely voluntary? (My sense is that it's a push/pull thing going on - although I'm not sure how much people who get pushed out aren't up to snuff in terms of ability to do the work vs ability to put up with the work.)

Danger Zone · Post by **Danger Zone** » Thu Nov 05, 2015 8:20 am

Lol this thread

TheSpanishMain · Post by **TheSpanishMain** » Thu Nov 05, 2015 8:33 am

PJam1989 wrote:I guess the thing that stands out is that people STILL do make partner. People still enter BigLaw as associates being told they will probably never make partner, rise through the ranks, become multi-millionaires, and love the work. More importantly, people will continue to do so as the future progresses. What personalities are receptive to this?

The percentage of BigLaw associates who become multi-millionaire partners is tiny, let alone "love the work." So yeah, you're right, that number is greater than zero. It almost certainly won't be you, though.

Desert Fox wrote:Maybe this is just a DC thing, but I think leaving to go in gov't is the best thing you can do for your partnership prospects.

I worked at a DC area AUSA office my 1L summer and a bunch of them were former BigLaw associates. All of them seemed to think that their partnership prospects were better now for having left to go get trial experience. Shockingly, most seemed ambivalent at best about returning to BigLaw because they enjoyed the AUSA office so much more, even though they were making like half their former salary.

Troianii · Post by **Troianii** » Thu Nov 05, 2015 2:33 pm

A. Nony Mouse wrote:
Troianii wrote:
A. Nony Mouse wrote:Doesn't the fact that so many people do leave suggest that many people hate the work? The alternative is that all the people who leave are stupid or supremely altruistic. Also, one point is not to go into debt in the first place. Another is that those people were never going to make partner.
I thought I heard - could be mistaken, and could have heard misinformation - but I thought I heard that a lot of junior associates are pushed out after their first couple years? The idea being that there's a really high demand, and a lot of people aren't up to snuff and so are pushed out (rather than leaving of their own volition).
Then why did you ask if the work is that bad/why people are leaving as if it's purely voluntary? (My sense is that it's a push/pull thing going on - although I'm not sure how much people who get pushed out aren't up to snuff in terms of ability to do the work vs ability to put up with the work.)

:l Uh, I didn't - this is my second post in the thread. And of course I really don't know, 95% of what I know of biglaw is just from hearsay on TLS

A. Nony Mouse · Post by **A. Nony Mouse** » Thu Nov 05, 2015 2:39 pm

Oh drat, I apologize - I had been reading a number of your threads and mixed you up with the OP. Totally my bad. Please ignore that first part. (I do think that you get a push/pull thing going on, though.)

totesTheGoat · Post by **totesTheGoat** » Thu Nov 05, 2015 2:39 pm

PJam1989 wrote:One of my passions in life is health and physical fitness. Current or former BigLaw associates, can you still go to the gym 4 days a week for 1 hour per work out and be a rising star?

Sure, just plan on sleeping in your office, because you'll probably be doing your hour from 1am-2am in the building's gym some nights.

This is exemplary of why you're getting so much flak in this thread. My passions do not include health and physical fitness. I enjoy being healthy and physically fit, but it's not a top priority to me. Even so, before law school (when I only had a career to worry about), I was doing much more than 4 hours per week in the gym. I was probably closer to 8 or 9, and it wasn't my passion. Those who did have a passion for health and physical fitness got to the gym an hour before me every day and left an hour after me every day. Their passion got them out of bed at 4:30 in the morning so that they could spend 3 hours at the gym before work. Some of them took off at lunch to do another hour on the track or treadmill. Then they would do some sport for another hour or two in the evening after work. Their passion consumed their schedule.

If something you're passionate about is only worth 4 hours of your time per week, what are you going to do when something that isn't your passion (doc review, for instance) eats up 90 hours of your week?

People leave biglaw because $160k isn't worth having to choose between going to the gym for an hour and sleeping. $160k isn't worth having to choose between seeing your significant other and staying on track with your billables. $160k isn't worth spending the entirety of your waking hours for weeks at a time in a small room staring at a computer screen doing boring tasks in preparation for a partner to go do the fun stuff in front of the judge. $160k isn't worth it for a 15% chance of actually being nominated for partner and an 85% chance of not-so-subtly being kicked to the curb after 5-7 years of service to the firm.

Biglaw needs to be your passion, and not just your 4 hour per week passion, in order for you to survive. I apologize for being harsh, but I think you don't understand how much hard work actually goes into being a biglaw associate if you want to stay on partner track.

AReasonableMan · Post by **AReasonableMan** » Thu Nov 05, 2015 2:48 pm

PJam1989 wrote:One of my passions in life is health and physical fitness. Current or former BigLaw associates, can you still go to the gym 4 days a week for 1 hour per work out and be a rising star?

Yes but you're generally more tired. The trick is to wake up an hour earlier on those days, but this is easier said than done when you're working until 11 PM. Ultimately, you're probably going to have to rely more on diet than you do now.

pancakes3 · Post by **pancakes3** » Thu Nov 05, 2015 2:51 pm

I get OP mixed up with the other cop from MoCo Pa who's pulling down 125k a year and can't decide between Temple and Penn.

A. Nony Mouse · Post by **A. Nony Mouse** » Thu Nov 05, 2015 3:07 pm

They're the same person.