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I'm at a decent T1, if I'm just wanting to work at a small/mid-sized firm and am in the top 50% or so am I good? How important are grades if one is not interested in biglaw

There is no exact way to define the value of grades. Grades are important when seeking any first legal job because for most people without experience it's the only way firms can compare you to other candidates. That being said, some things can make up for bad grades such as hitting it off with somebody at a networking event and having them invite you for an interview. Once you're in the door, you can do your best to make them not focus on your grades. But there's no reason to think a small firm wouldn't want someone with good grades just because they're small.

you're not in the top 50% of jack shit until you take your exams

pancakes3 wrote:you're not in the top 50% of jack shit until you take your exams

Yeah, I'm just looking ahead. If I'm below median am I completely screwed or can I still get some sort of shit-law position

Dude. Do as well as you possibly can. What are you going to do? Try 75% as hard if we say "yeah I mean you can probably get a shitty job if you're a tad below median"?

Odds are you're going to gun for big law either way next fall because you'll realize small firms generally don't offer an incredibly more desirable lifestyle or, often, seriously interesting work, while paying a quarter as much money. Dont close off options because you're looking for excuses to be lazy.

Just go all in. If you're not confident you're going to second guess your responses before you write them. Why not assume you're capable of being #1, and then drop out if you do really badly?

AReasonableMan wrote:Just go all in. If you're not confident you're going to second guess your responses before you write them. Why not assume you're capable of being #1, and then drop out if you do really badly?

Because of the debt he'd be taking on...

How is that relevant? OP has presumably paid the bill; now it's just a matter of his employment prospects after he takes the test.

ND2018 wrote:How is that relevant?

OP can cut his losses at the end of the semester before the grades come out. Generally, law schools won't refund the full price of spring semester by the time fall grades come out.

Even so they could consider that in late December. There's no benefit in doing so now, and with that mindset they'd be sacrificing the one shot they have to do well on half the exams that count.

totesTheGoat wrote:

ND2018 wrote:How is that relevant?

OP can cut his losses at the end of the semester before the grades come out. Generally, law schools won't refund the full price of spring semester by the time fall grades come out.

Perhaps, but this has nothing to do with what OP asked.

OP, the best advice anyone can give you is to just go HAM during 1L.

Needed some motivation. Thanks guys

If you need motivation, think of it this way:

During my second semester of 1L, I interviewed for a prestigious, small firm that paid market ($160k $190k). While I didn't end up with the job, the only reason I even got in the door to interview was because I was ~top 5%.

Small firms can be just as selective as big firms, and you aren't the only person out there who wants to work for one.

Grades are important until you get a post-grad job.

zot1 wrote:Grades are important until you get a post-grad job.

quite possibly even a few years beyond that

Grades are literally your life and you have no clue until they hit, euphorically or crushingly, in your inbox. You're welcome.

ballouttacontrol wrote:

zot1 wrote:Grades are important until you get a post-grad job.

quite possibly even a few years beyond that

You're definitely right. I don't want to leave my job unless they make me, so I forget about the "next" opportunity after first job.

To reiterate: 1L grades are by far the most important in your LS career. They are the only objective criteria prospective 2L summer employers will look at, and can easily get you an interview, and after that its all up to your personality and interviewing skills.

Nebby wrote:To reiterate: 1L grades are by far the most important in your LS career. They are the only objective criteria prospective 2L summer employers will look at, and can easily get you an interview, and after that its all up to your personality and interviewing skills.

Nebby, Imma disagree with you slightly. Yes, 1L grades are super important IF BigLaw is the path you want. Getting good grades 1L will make it easy to get an SA position that can lead into a post-grad offer even if your 2L and 3L grades are average.

However, if you don't want BigLaw or if you struck out or if your 1L grades were average (like mine!!!!!), then you really need to play the game 2L and 3L and make sure you get your grades up (graduated Top 1/3 after being average 1L). This is important because you will be looking for post-grad jobs all the way to graduation (best case scenario you get a job before, worst case you get one after) and then employers (including BigLaw if you struck out) will look at all of your grades, not just 1L.

I hope that makes sense.

Also, and I don't mean to darken the mood, it seems to me that getting no-offered after SA is becoming a lot more commonplace (or at least, I'm hearing more about it), so this risk would also be a good reason to not let your grades go just because you secured an SA with 1L grades.

What are you basing the "more no offers these days" thing on?

I don't think there's anything to disagree with. 1L grades are super important. Just because there are people who strike out, or get no-offered doesn't diminish their importance. Even if you don't want biglaw or you do end up playing "the game" 2L and 3L, those 1L grades still weigh on the GPA. I guess the concession is that if you're median after 1L year, it's not a death knell but i think it's disingenuous to say that 1L grades are unimportant (or even of equal importance with 2L and 3L GPAs) because of the possibility of making up for it later.

BigZuck wrote:What are you basing the "more no offers these days" thing on?

Like I said in parenthesis there, I'm hearing more about it. As a 1L I had a lot of upperclassmen friends from my school and others and visited TLS quite friendly. In my perspective, through the past four years, I'm hearing more about it now than I did before. That's what I meant. Take it for what it is.

zot1 wrote:

BigZuck wrote:What are you basing the "more no offers these days" thing on?

Like I said in parenthesis there, I'm hearing more about it. As a 1L I had a lot of upperclassmen friends from my school and others and visited TLS quite friendly. In my perspective, through the past four years, I'm hearing more about it now than I did before. That's what I meant. Take it for what it is.

It's too uncommon to seriously incorporate into your analysis. What inevitably happens is the people at firms making these decisions know the impact a no offer will have on you, get to know you over the summer and are concerned about being able to attract top candidates in the future. The result of this is they're generally going to err on the side of giving you an offer. Obviously economic things happen, but at most of the major firms in their major offices, the bar is very low.