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I am currently a 1L at Fordham with a 35k a year scholarship. However, I got offered an interesting job that I think could grow quickly starting at 65k.

I enjoy crim, can stand torts, and hate contracts with a passion.

Also I did well on my short memo but find doing research boring. The actual litigation process seems interesting, but I'm realizing a lot of being a lawyer is research. However, my parents think b/w the scholarship and career path it might be worth sticking it out so I was hoping to get some input.

Thanks in advance

mrb520 wrote:I am currently a 1L at Fordham with a 35k a year scholarship. However, I got offered an interesting job that I think could grow quickly starting at 65k.

I enjoy crim, can stand torts, and hate contracts with a passion.

Also I did well on my short memo but find doing research boring. The actual litigation process seems interesting, but I'm realizing a lot of being a lawyer is research. However, my parents think b/w the scholarship and career path it might be worth sticking it out so I was hoping to get some input.

Thanks in advance

It may be more useful to express your finances in terms of loans taken out, rather than scholarship awarded. It will be easier for people to compare to your potential salary and stuff. I don't know if Fordham COA is common knowledge. If it is, then feel free to ignore.

No problem, good point! its costing me about 18 a semester all-in including commuting, books, etc

If you don't want to be a lawyer you should drop out. If you dislike legal research it is unlikely you will like being a lawyer. It's up to you but it sounds like you should think about taking the job.

taking the job is like 250k above what you would get if you stay in LS and manage to get Big law. Put in top of that that it sounds you don't like LS I say drop out and take the job.

65k in NYC is dogshit money. If it's an interesting job though and has potential to go to 100k in NYC or you can gain skills widely needed in suburban areas that pays around 75k-100k, absolutely.

What's the job in? Field? Where do you see it going in 3-5 years? How many hours per week will it take?

Job is for captive consulting, so essentially alternative risk financing in risk management. Employer says once trained so in a year go up to 75 and within 3 years expect title and at least 90k. bonus ranges 10-25% depending on clients signed

JohannDeMann wrote:65k in NYC is dogshit money. If it's an interesting job though and has potential to go to 100k in NYC or you can gain skills widely needed in suburban areas that pays around 75k-100k, absolutely.

What's the job in? Field? Where do you see it going in 3-5 years? How many hours per week will it take?

Didn't know the NYC part.

mvp99 wrote:taking the job is like 250k above what you would get if you stay in LS and manage to get Big law.

how is this true? can you explain teh numbers behind it

mvp99 wrote:taking the job is like 250k above what you would get if you stay in LS and manage to get Big law. Put in top of that that it sounds you don't like LS I say drop out and take the job.

This literally makes zero sense. Nice advice

bearsfan23 wrote:

mvp99 wrote:taking the job is like 250k above what you would get if you stay in LS and manage to get Big law. Put in top of that that it sounds you don't like LS I say drop out and take the job.

This literally makes zero sense. Nice advice

65K*3years + 18K*3years...Makes sense on the first part, but idk about the biglaw part.

65k is not a good salary for NYC, but if it's in a lower COL area, i'd take the job

Lawdork wrote:65k is not a good salary for NYC, but if it's in a lower COL area, i'd take the job

65k is not such great money in NYC, but what is the median salary for a Fordham grad? It seems to me that over three years of law school you will rack up 60k in debt and lose the salary you could have made. For someone who wants to be a lawyer this might be a good choice, but if someone does not really want to practice law it is a different question. Also, 65k in NYC with a couple roommates you can live perfectly well and save some money.

Hutz_and_Goodman wrote:

Lawdork wrote:65k is not a good salary for NYC, but if it's in a lower COL area, i'd take the job

65k is not such great money in NYC, but what is the median salary for a Fordham grad? It seems to me that over three years of law school you will rack up 60k in debt and lose the salary you could have made. For someone who wants to be a lawyer this might be a good choice, but if someone does not really want to practice law it is a different question. Also, 65k in NYC with a couple roommates you can live perfectly well and save some money.

Agreed. Since Fordham gives OP ~35% chance of biglaw, there's an okay chance OP would be much better off from a purely economic standpoint, but those aren't great odds.

65k debt free is NOT bad money in NYC. NYC is expensive, but the COL calculator is misleading because part of the high rent is related to the fact everything is so close together that you don't need a car. Even things like food are misleading because there are massive discrepancies in terms of grocery store pricing on one block versus another block in NYC such that the same product (same brand, same item) may be 2.5x more at one convenience store than it is at another a few blocks away.

It also sounds like a stepping stone for your resume and at the very least you can go back to law school later, and no one will bat an eye that you left because a business opportunity came up. If they can afford to pay you 65k now, are promising and the deal comes with stock options I'd take it and run. It isn't like your current position gives you better than a 50-50 shot of earning a higher salary. When the ~100k debt you will leave with from remaining tuition + COL is factored in, it isn't really close.

AReasonableMan wrote: If they can afford to pay you 65k now, are promising and the deal comes with stock options I'd take it and run. It isn't like your current position gives you better than a 50-50 shot of earning a higher salary. When the ~100k debt you will leave with from remaining tuition + COL is factored in, it isn't really close.

What AReasonableMan said. Also, if you know you're probably gonna drop out, you might as well sit down with your financial aid office and play hard ball with them. Tell them you're thinking about dropping out because you have a job opportunity, and see if you can pressure them into some additional scholarships. You never know when they may all-of-a-sudden find some more money in the couch cushions for you. It may not be enough to make you stay, but it's worth a 30 minute conversation.

The true benefit to dropping out is not being a lawyer and saving 3 pointless years of your life. Run, OP. You clearly don't want to be lawyer enough (enough to make the objectively bad choice worth it to you subjectively) if you're seriously considering this.

As a note, OP said $18K a SEMESTER.

So that's 108K total not the 60 or so people keep mentioning.

It sounds like you don't like legal research and writing, which is going to be a huge part of your job, and the COL is the same whether at Fordham or working. Take the job, you're saving yourself a significant amount of debt, that you would need to take a job you'll probably dislike (if you can even get one) to pay it off.

lymenheimer wrote:

bearsfan23 wrote:

mvp99 wrote:taking the job is like 250k above what you would get if you stay in LS and manage to get Big law. Put in top of that that it sounds you don't like LS I say drop out and take the job.

This literally makes zero sense. Nice advice

65K*3years + 18K*3years...Makes sense on the first part, but idk about the biglaw part.

biglaw = 2l SA

totesTheGoat wrote:

AReasonableMan wrote: If they can afford to pay you 65k now, are promising and the deal comes with stock options I'd take it and run. It isn't like your current position gives you better than a 50-50 shot of earning a higher salary. When the ~100k debt you will leave with from remaining tuition + COL is factored in, it isn't really close.

What AReasonableMan said. Also, if you know you're probably gonna drop out, you might as well sit down with your financial aid office and play hard ball with them. Tell them you're thinking about dropping out because you have a job opportunity, and see if you can pressure them into some additional scholarships. You never know when they may all-of-a-sudden find some more money in the couch cushions for you. It may not be enough to make you stay, but it's worth a 30 minute conversation.

Not sure if it's practical without grades. Which leads me to think, maybe you can push your start date until January (or more disingenuously, right after finals but before grades) and reevaluate after grading.

There's a lot of legal work that doesn't involve law school style legal research, and some transactional practices that might appeal to OPs finance interest. If OP has the qualifications to work alternative finance, the addition of a sec reg/PE heavy law degree might even be the key to getting the 1/1000 good JD advantage jobs. If finals go very well, op might be able to go for free, and end up with a better job at a firm or a fund.

If they go poorly, op's out only two months salary (not sure when next tuition is due, or if the late penalty is slight enough to eat).

If grades are ~75%, ops back in the same place.

A few things...

1. Ask yourself if you truly see yourself being a lawyer, so much that you'll get through law school and the bar.
2. Educate yourself, being a lawyer is not all research. I didn't do any research today or maybe at all this week. I also have the option to ask my paralegal to do research for me. Although, I'll admit I like to do my own research when I have to.
3. It doesn't matter which classes you like because law school classes do not equal practice. Sure, you'll apply some of the concepts you learned from class to your practice, but it's never nearly the same. I used to say I LOVED law school (yep, LOVED), but I can tell you my practice is a thousand times better (fair disclaimer: I'm in Government).

lymenheimer wrote:

bearsfan23 wrote:

mvp99 wrote:taking the job is like 250k above what you would get if you stay in LS and manage to get Big law. Put in top of that that it sounds you don't like LS I say drop out and take the job.

This literally makes zero sense. Nice advice

65K*3years + 18K*3years...Makes sense on the first part, but idk about the biglaw part.

The "opportunity cost" is bs, because long term it sounds like the OP would have a higher annual income out of law school, and they've already paid for part of law school.

Do you hate research, or legal research? If the former, law school v jobs is the least of your problems. I actually find legal research better than that JStor bullshit I did in Undergrad, since Westlaw/Lexis (whotf uses Bloomberg?) are much better organized and have better UI than general academic databases.

Good luck finding any decent job where you don't have to do research of some kind.