Top Law Schools

What are your views on these 2 schools? What are the job prospects like for students who attend? Would these be good law schools to go to if one wanted to work in Richmond?
Thanks

they are not great schools. and the job prospects are pretty poor. if you have an undying desire to be in richmond, then i guess going to one of these on a full scholarship isn't the worst idea. but even with full scholarship you still have to borrow money to pay for your living expenses (rent, food, transportation, school stuff, etc). so unless you can keep your total debt at graduation below a manageable limit, these schools would not be worth it.

now, what that manageable limit is depends on your financial background. are you wealthy? are your parents loaded? if no, then don't go.

Job placement has not been good for W&L graduates. In the not too distant past, and perhaps currently, many grads had to take state court clerkships in rural & semi-rural areas of the state. Between the two, Richmond seems to offer better employment opportunities.

This is a tough question to answer, IMO. I think the #1-5 students from both schools are probably considered to be of the same caliber for clerkship purposes, but the alumni networks in Richmond will make the difference in terms of big law / mid law hiring. I'd look at firm bios and see which schools are better represented at Hunton, Troutman, williams mullen, mcguirewoods, etc. In the end though, I think it's probably best to go to the school that is offering you the most money.

If you want to work in VA/DC, you should retake and apply to UVA

Both of these were at the top of my list when I started applications. TLS saved me big time. I echo: try to go to UVA instead. Going to Richmond or W&L means certain doors are pretty much closed to you forever.

Although I am not in law school at the moment. But living in Richmond and having friends that are currently attending their law school, from what I know and they tell me. Their alumni will take care of their own but keep in mind it will mostly be regional work.

baileybd2 wrote:Although I am not in law school at the moment. But living in Richmond and having friends that are currently attending their law school, from what I know and they tell me. Their alumni will take care of their own but keep in mind it will mostly be regional work.

http://www.lstscorereports.com/schools/richmond/2014/
They have a 56% employment rate--sure some alumni may take care of their own. But they sure as hell can't take care of everyone. To echo the above, retake, go to UVA

monsterman wrote:

baileybd2 wrote:Although I am not in law school at the moment. But living in Richmond and having friends that are currently attending their law school, from what I know and they tell me. Their alumni will take care of their own but keep in mind it will mostly be regional work.

http://www.lstscorereports.com/schools/richmond/2014/
They have a 56% employment rate--sure some alumni may take care of their own. But they sure as hell can't take care of everyone. To echo the above, retake, go to UVA

Of course, yes, not everyone was included for the "taking care of their own". Also as stated above, go to UVA

7 hours of freshness wrote:Both of these were at the top of my list when I started applications. TLS saved me big time. I echo: try to go to UVA instead. Going to Richmond or W&L means certain doors are pretty much closed to you forever.

This is certainly a bit of an overstatement. There are plenty of people at biglaw who went to less-than-stellar law schools. Law school will get you your entry-level job, but it's your skill that will keep you there. To say jobs are forever closed is simply wrong (although it may still be good advice, given 0L's propensity toward optimal results). Even a YLS grad will get fired from biglaw for being incompetent.

n1o2c3a4c5h6e7t wrote:

7 hours of freshness wrote:Both of these were at the top of my list when I started applications. TLS saved me big time. I echo: try to go to UVA instead. Going to Richmond or W&L means certain doors are pretty much closed to you forever.

This is certainly a bit of an overstatement. There are plenty of people at biglaw who went to less-than-stellar law schools. Law school will get you your entry-level job, but it's your skill that will keep you there. To say jobs are forever closed is simply wrong (although it may still be good advice, given 0L's propensity toward optimal results). Even a YLS grad will get fired from biglaw for being incompetent.

yeah I think the point is it is just a healthier approach to picking a law school, with the mindset you can be totally fucked if you are below median at those schools

n1o2c3a4c5h6e7t wrote:

7 hours of freshness wrote:Both of these were at the top of my list when I started applications. TLS saved me big time. I echo: try to go to UVA instead. Going to Richmond or W&L means certain doors are pretty much closed to you forever.

This is certainly a bit of an overstatement. There are plenty of people at biglaw who went to less-than-stellar law schools. Law school will get you your entry-level job, but it's your skill that will keep you there. To say jobs are forever closed is simply wrong (although it may still be good advice, given 0L's propensity toward optimal results). Even a YLS grad will get fired from biglaw for being incompetent.

Yeah, the people at the extreme top at lower ranked schools often get big law. But certain other doors do remain close, or at best, barely cracked open. E.g. academia and clerkships with certain judges, if that sort of thing interests you.

Going in, you have no way of predicting your eventual class rank, so don't look at the few who got lucky when making plans.

.

Working hard has almost nothing to do with law school performance. You should not listen to anyone who gives advice with such qualifications, OP,as they are clueless. Go to UVA or don't go at all, basically.

.

lennybriscoe wrote:

Traynor Brah wrote:Working hard has almost nothing to do with law school performance. You should not listen to anyone who gives advice with such qualifications, OP,as they are clueless. Go to UVA or don't go at all, basically.

I am genuinely curious here, not just because your comment was directed at me, but because I am weighing the same question as OP. If working hard has almost nothing to do with law school performance, then what does?

Also, what can you tell us about the prospects for students at these schools in the Richmond area?

Being good at taking law school exams.

Almost every person in law school works hard (as a 1L). Some work extremely hard. Some just work hard. In the end, the people that are the best at taking law school exams do the best. Which should be no surprise. Generally, these people worked hard.(at least as 1Ls) But they may not have been the hardest workers.

So yes, working hard is important. But doing well as a 1L also takes luck. There are ways to help yourself prepare for exams but if you're not good at writing a law school exam, working extremely hard isn't going to make you a top student.

Working hard is a necessary condition but is in no way a sufficient condition for success.

Look at the placement stats. Who would spend three years at a school where half the grads are unemployed a year after they left?

Do not go to these schools. Even with a full ride. It is highly unlikely you will be able to do what you want in the future. I know kids in the top 10% of top 25 schools struggling. I've never heard of either of these schools. You will greatly disadvantage yourself if you attend these institutions.

n1o2c3a4c5h6e7t wrote:

7 hours of freshness wrote:Both of these were at the top of my list when I started applications. TLS saved me big time. I echo: try to go to UVA instead. Going to Richmond or W&L means certain doors are pretty much closed to you forever.

This is certainly a bit of an overstatement. There are plenty of people at biglaw who went to less-than-stellar law schools. Law school will get you your entry-level job, but it's your skill that will keep you there. To say jobs are forever closed is simply wrong (although it may still be good advice, given 0L's propensity toward optimal results). Even a YLS grad will get fired from biglaw for being incompetent.

Except these particular law schools in most cases won't get you an entry level Biglaw job. You won't even have the chance for your skill to keep you there.

A YLS grad might get fired for incompetence, but at least he got to cross the threshold.

And you say there are plenty of people at biglaw who went to non-stellar law school. What's the ratio of those to graduates from elite law schools?

Tiny Dancer wrote:

n1o2c3a4c5h6e7t wrote:

7 hours of freshness wrote:Both of these were at the top of my list when I started applications. TLS saved me big time. I echo: try to go to UVA instead. Going to Richmond or W&L means certain doors are pretty much closed to you forever.

This is certainly a bit of an overstatement. There are plenty of people at biglaw who went to less-than-stellar law schools. Law school will get you your entry-level job, but it's your skill that will keep you there. To say jobs are forever closed is simply wrong (although it may still be good advice, given 0L's propensity toward optimal results). Even a YLS grad will get fired from biglaw for being incompetent.

Except these particular law schools in most cases won't get you an entry level Biglaw job. You won't even have the chance for your skill to keep you there.

A YLS grad might get fired for incompetence, but at least he got to cross the threshold.

And you say there are plenty of people at biglaw who went to non-stellar law school. What's the ratio of those to graduates from elite law schools?

This. Play the odds that you'll succeed/be able to pay off your loans. You probably won't be able to do so from these places.

Please stop feeding this troll guys. Seriously...