Top Law Schools

like, isn't it possible that virtually everyone in LS did essentially the same things these guides say and some came on top/mid/bottom? and the guy who wrote the guide is absolutely convinced that it was these methods that led to his success while not realizing that pretty much all of his classmates did the same thing and he just came out on top because LS grading is random af.

You've probably been hanging around TLS long enough to feel like you've got this thing down, but you'd be shocked at how many people go into 1L flying totally blind. The guides are useful because they give you a good sense of what to expect and sort of a consensus on what generally works, what never works, and what might work.

LawBron wrote:like, isn't it possible that virtually everyone in LS did essentially the same things these guides say and some came on top/mid/bottom? and the guy who wrote the guide is absolutely convinced that it was these methods that led to his success while not realizing that pretty much all of his classmates did the same thing and he just came out on top because LS grading is random af.

I highly doubt that. But how many people are doing those sort of things likely depends on your school.

Then again, I didn't use any of the TLS guides 1L year.

Unpredictable as fuck does not equal random as fuck. At the onset, law school grades are very unpredictable. But, even though they may sometimes have a flavor of arbitrariness, they are, on average, not random. Don't use that as some excuse to not put in a full effort; I was planning on writing a little PSA about this in one of the guide posts, as I fell into that trap after consuming lots of these guides last fall.

Most people at my school had no idea how law exams worked or how to prepare so reading the guides definitely gave you a leg up.

Tiago Splitter wrote:You've probably been hanging around TLS long enough to feel like you've got this thing down, but you'd be shocked at how many people go into 1L flying totally blind.

but even at the top schools though? i feel like these are generally the people who read TLS, buy/read LS guides, and obsess over this shit etc.

and traynor, i don't know man. maybe you're right. but in a sample size of 200+ students at most schools, isn't it possible that a handful of people roll a 6 on a die 6 times in a row every year?

LawBron wrote: but even at the top schools though? i feel like these are generally the people who read TLS, buy/read LS guides, and obsess over this shit etc.

The percentage is higher at top schools but nowhere near 100%. I had a guy ask me halfway through first semester when the midterm would be, only to look at me like I had two heads when I told him there was no midterm and the final is worth 100%.

No, I don't think that kind of thing happens. You're seriously underestimating how hard most people work and how thin the margin often is towards the top of the class. You may get lucky once or twice if you're not producing quality exams, sure.

But even if one person were to randomly roll a six six times, what would that mean for you? Would you not work as hard because of it? That's not a good attitude for this. You've got one shot at 1L; make it count.

Tiago Splitter wrote:

LawBron wrote: but even at the top schools though? i feel like these are generally the people who read TLS, buy/read LS guides, and obsess over this shit etc.

The percentage is higher at top schools but nowhere near 100%. I had a guy ask me halfway through first semester when the midterm would be, only to look at me like I had two heads when I told him there was no midterm and the final is worth 100%.

o_O

Traynor Brah wrote:No, I don't think that kind of thing happens. You're seriously underestimating how hard most people work and how thin the margin often is towards the top of the class. You may get lucky once or twice if you're not producing quality exams, sure.

But even if one person were to randomly roll a six six times, what would that mean for you? Would you not work as hard because of it? That's not a good attitude for this. You've got one shot at 1L; make it count.

hmmm ok. well i already dropped the money for it. might as well go HAM.

LawBron wrote:

Tiago Splitter wrote:You've probably been hanging around TLS long enough to feel like you've got this thing down, but you'd be shocked at how many people go into 1L flying totally blind.

but even at the top schools though? i feel like these are generally the people who read TLS, buy/read LS guides, and obsess over this shit etc.

and traynor, i don't know man. maybe you're right. but in a sample size of 200+ students at most schools, isn't it possible that a handful of people roll a 6 on a die 6 times in a row every year?

Yep, even at top schools.

NoBladesNoBows wrote:On a related note: I spent a lot of time reading most of these guides prior to the start of classes, and have still been browsing many of them into these first few weeks. Yet I still feel sometimes that I'm going about this all completely wrong and flying just as blind as if I'd never read any of them. Is that a common feeling?

i feel blind too

NoBladesNoBows wrote:On a related note: I spent a lot of time reading most of these guides prior to the start of classes, and have still been browsing many of them into these first few weeks. Yet I still feel sometimes that I'm going about this all completely wrong and flying just as blind as if I'd never read any of them. Is that a common feeling?

Yes. First semester 1L is tough because you hear all these horror stories about how hard you'll have to work and in the early weeks there just isn't much to do. And that makes you feel like you must be missing something. But you're not. For now just read the cases, go to class and take good notes. In time things will start to come together.

NoBladesNoBows wrote:On a related note: I spent a lot of time reading most of these guides prior to the start of classes, and have still been browsing many of them into these first few weeks. Yet I still feel sometimes that I'm going about this all completely wrong and flying just as blind as if I'd never read any of them. Is that a common feeling?

Yes. It takes time as a 1L to understand how law school works and to change the way you think. Undergrad doesn't prepare you for it at all. But it will happen. Just work hard and stay patient. And hope you progress faster than your peers.

NoBladesNoBows wrote:

Tiago Splitter wrote:

NoBladesNoBows wrote:On a related note: I spent a lot of time reading most of these guides prior to the start of classes, and have still been browsing many of them into these first few weeks. Yet I still feel sometimes that I'm going about this all completely wrong and flying just as blind as if I'd never read any of them. Is that a common feeling?

Yes. First semester 1L is tough because you hear all these horror stories about how hard you'll have to work and in the early weeks there just isn't much to do. And that makes you feel like you must be missing something. But you're not. For now just read the cases, go to class and take good notes. In time things will start to come together.

Yea a sanity check is probably the most important thing at this point. Although of course where my mind goes after I read that is to wondering what exactly good notes are...

Honestly, probably not what you're writing down now. But you'll figure it out midway through the semester. Just like pretty much everybody else in your class.

Traynor Brah wrote:No, I don't think that kind of thing happens. You're seriously underestimating how hard most people work and how thin the margin often is towards the top of the class. You may get lucky once or twice if you're not producing quality exams, sure.

But even if one person were to randomly roll a six six times, what would that mean for you? Would you not work as hard because of it? That's not a good attitude for this. You've got one shot at 1L; make it count.

Seriously. Go hard as a 1L because you can more or less mail it in (if you want to) once you have that offer with a firm as a 2L.(depending on how risk averse you are)

I agree with Traynor 100% and would just add that what's random is whether you have the skill set to do well on law school exams and you won't know that until it's too late

chuckbass wrote:I agree with Traynor 100% and would just add that what's random is whether you have the skill set to do well on law school exams and you won't know that until it's too late

WHAT | ARE | THESE | SKILLS

To name a few: ability to extract relevant facts and apply relevant law, ability to write clearly, consicely, and persuasively in a very limited amount of time, raw analytical ability, time management, strategy and tactics with respect to gaming point values. That kind of stuff.

Traynor Brah wrote:To name a few: ability to extract relevant facts and apply relevant law, ability to write clearly, consicely, and persuasively in a very limited amount of time, raw analytical ability, time management, strategy and tactics with respect to gaming point values. That kind of stuff.

To go with your ability to write persuasively, add in your ability to frame things similarly to the professor.

Always have to keep your audience in mind. Cater to the person grading the exam.

I'll answer your post title succinctly: Yes.

I followed the one by the NYU guy religiously and then supplemented some advice from the one from the UCLA guy.

Edit: I should say i did well.

They helped in the sense that they struck the fear of "law school" into me. Knowing that some students at school would be doing as much work, or working as focused, as those who wrote those guides helped me understand that law school was not a joke. It also helped me gain an understanding of how important time management is. Also, it gave me a vague idea of what a law school exam would be like.

I read like every single one and can't remember a single thing any of them said. The general take away was: don't waste time, focus in on what the professor is looking for, don't be lazy, practice test on the earlier side (and often), and take breaks.drink/cool off when needed.

It all seems intuitive, but you'd be surprised how many 1Ls seem shocked when I tell them that "no, you probably won't be done with readings at 5pm everyday unless you're waking up mad early in the morning." I don'tr know

I'm a 1L and it already seems like there aren't enough hours in the day, but maybe I just read slow. There's so much shit I need to do. Brief cases, synthesize notes, read supplements, start thinking about how I want to organize my brief/class notes/supplement materials to create an outline... I'm getting 8 hours of sleep and have down time to chill with friends/go to the gym for sure but there's always more to do.

PeanutsNJam wrote:I'm a 1L and it already seems like there aren't enough hours in the day, but maybe I just read slow. There's so much shit I need to do. Brief cases, synthesize notes, read supplements, start thinking about how I want to organize my brief/class notes/supplement materials to create an outline... I'm getting 8 hours of sleep and have down time to chill with friends/go to the gym for sure but there's always more to do.

FWIW, I feel the exact same way and I'm a 1L. I've been told by a real helpful/credited source though that it's normal and won't start getting better till around the third or so week. Until then it's a grind brother

Edit: This post was posted at the bottom of the page, and I saw my boy Ezra Fitz creeping. You keep doing you in Rosewood my man