Those who did (are doing) a joint degree (e.g. J.D./Ph.D), what is it like? Forum

[GomuGomuKinsa]

I am interested in pursing a J.D./M.S. but law school seems like a ton of work in itself, I am curious to know what ones schedule might look like when pursing a joint degree. How do both departments work with you to help you achieve your goal? Thanks!

[tomwatts]

It varies a lot by school and by degree program. An MS in what, and why?

It is fairly common for a Masters degree to add an extra year onto law school, so that a JD/M(whatever) is a 4-year program. This is not always so; to take one example, Yale's JD/MBA program has a 3-year version. The way I did mine — JD/MPP at HLS/HKS — was that I did 1L year, then a year away, then two years taking classes at both schools (but mostly law classes, owing to the way the requirements worked out). If you're doing concurrent degrees at different schools, you may have to spend one semester away during 2L year or 3L year to finish up requirements.

But again, this all varies wildly depending on the school and the program.

[GomuGomuKinsa]

It varies a lot by school and by degree program. An MS in what, and why?

It is fairly common for a Masters degree to add an extra year onto law school, so that a JD/M(whatever) is a 4-year program. This is not always so; to take one example, Yale's JD/MBA program has a 3-year version. The way I did mine — JD/MPP at HLS/HKS — was that I did 1L year, then a year away, then two years taking classes at both schools (but mostly law classes, owing to the way the requirements worked out). If you're doing concurrent degrees at different schools, you may have to spend one semester away during 2L year or 3L year to finish up requirements.

But again, this all varies wildly depending on the school and the program.

Thank you for your response! I would like to do a M.S. in genetics. I did undergraduate research in neuroscience and currently work in neurology. Ultimately, I decided I wanted to do a joint degree because I couldn’t decide what I liked more. I really want to go to law school and I really want a higher degree in the sciences. I’ve always been interested in genetics and figured that it would be something that might mesh better with a law degree compared to a higher degree in neuroscience (e.g. bioethics?).

Was it your choice to do the year away and how was it coming back to law school after that year? Was taking classes simultaneously at both schools burdensome? Again, thank you for taking the time to help me figure this out by telling me about your experience!

[stego]

I feel like people on TLS usually advise against doing joint degrees. How does an MS in genetics help you be a lawyer and how does a law degree help you be a geneticist or whatever?

[GomuGomuKinsa]

I feel like people on TLS usually advise against doing joint degrees. How does an MS in genetics help you be a lawyer and how does a law degree help you be a geneticist or whatever?

Honestly, I wish I could give you a definitive answer as to why I would like to do this particular joint degree. Believe me when I say that I have spent a good amount of time thinking about the ‘why’ and trying to justify my decision. It is just something that I am interested in doing.

[purkinje]

I feel like people on TLS usually advise against doing joint degrees. How does an MS in genetics help you be a lawyer and how does a law degree help you be a geneticist or whatever?

Honestly, I wish I could give you a definitive answer as to why I would like to do this particular joint degree. Believe me when I say that I have spent a good amount of time thinking about the ‘why’ and trying to justify my decision. It is just something that I am interested in doing.

I just wanted to chime in and say I'm in pretty much the exact same position. Undergrad in neurobiology and I want to do an M.S./JD. Interested in others' thoughts as well. As for the why, I want to go into patent pros. so an advanced degree will be beneficial.

And OP - I do think a JD/phd in genetics or neuroscience would be good for other areas of the law. I've had multiple professors tell me about former students who did just that and are highly sought after within their specialty.

[chuckbass]

Why not just do the MS and then reevaluate if you're still interested in law school after?

[GomuGomuKinsa]

Why not just do the MS and then reevaluate if you're still interested in law school after?

If I had to choose one path, I would go to law school hands down.

[chuckbass]

Why not just do the MS and then reevaluate if you're still interested in law school after?

If I had to choose one path, I would go to law school hands down.

Why?

[Clemenceau]

Why not just do the MS and then reevaluate if you're still interested in law school after?

If I had to choose one path, I would go to law school hands down.

Won't the MS be expensive/time consuming?

[GomuGomuKinsa]

Why not just do the MS and then reevaluate if you're still interested in law school after?

If I had to choose one path, I would go to law school hands down.

Why?

I've always liked the whole critical thinking, problem solving and debate aspect of the legal field. I ended up in the sciences because, well, we can do our undergraduate degree in anything we want to. I just thought it would be a brilliant idea to do it in something unrelated to law yet immensely fascinating. There is a lot of problem solving and critical thinking involved in research not to mention the subject matter is extremely interesting IMO. I am partial to law school because it is initially what I set out to do, I still get to problem solve and there would be more diversity in the work I do (possibly?). Research takes a long time, so you basically look at the same things over and over again for a long time. In the words of my friend who is a chemist, "I go to work and do the same thing over and over again trying to get a different result"

[GomuGomuKinsa]

Why not just do the MS and then reevaluate if you're still interested in law school after?

If I had to choose one path, I would go to law school hands down.

Won't the MS be expensive/time consuming?

Yes, probably. I am more concerned with the time consuming part. Hopefully more people who have gone through it can give a little insight.

[chuckbass]

Do you have an idea of what you want to do with a law degree? Honestly I'd just stick with the sciences if you enjoy it. You have no idea if you'll actually like the law until it's too late.

[GomuGomuKinsa]

I feel like people on TLS usually advise against doing joint degrees. How does an MS in genetics help you be a lawyer and how does a law degree help you be a geneticist or whatever?

Honestly, I wish I could give you a definitive answer as to why I would like to do this particular joint degree. Believe me when I say that I have spent a good amount of time thinking about the ‘why’ and trying to justify my decision. It is just something that I am interested in doing.

I just wanted to chime in and say I'm in pretty much the exact same position. Undergrad in neurobiology and I want to do an M.S./JD. Interested in others' thoughts as well. As for the why, I want to go into patent pros. so an advanced degree will be beneficial.

And OP - I do think a JD/phd in genetics or neuroscience would be good for other areas of the law. I've had multiple professors tell me about former students who did just that and are highly sought after within their specialty.

Ahhhh! Just what I wanted to read! Thanks for the massive boost in confidence! I still have quite a bit of research do to as to the 'why' but a joint degree can't hurt.

[mt2165]

Why not just do the MS and then reevaluate if you're still interested in law school after?

If I had to choose one path, I would go to law school hands down.

Why?

I've always liked the whole critical thinking, problem solving and debate aspect of the legal field. I ended up in the sciences because, well, we can do our undergraduate degree in anything we want to. I just thought it would be a brilliant idea to do it in something unrelated to law yet immensely fascinating. There is a lot of problem solving and critical thinking involved in research not to mention the subject matter is extremely interesting IMO. I am partial to law school because it is initially what I set out to do, I still get to problem solve and there would be more diversity in the work I do (possibly?). Research takes a long time, so you basically look at the same things over and over again for a long time. In the words of my friend who is a chemist, "I go to work and do the same thing over and over again trying to get a different result"

I'll just say this, if you loved neuroscience or whatever you did in UG i would favor that, and like Chuck said I would get the MS and see if you're still interested in law. And while getting that MS, talk to real lawyers and see if you can actually get a feel for what its like to be a lawyer. The cool thing about UG is you get to try a bunch of stuff with little repercussions. Most people think they'll like law school and being a lawyer until they realize they dont. You KNOW you love neuroscience, you THINK you'll like law. Not to mention, the two don't really mesh at all, I don't know how you could possibly utilize both simultaneously. Maybe IP, but I dont know enough about that to speak on that.

[purkinje]

I think a lot of people are missing that from a science background, all you are really qualified to do is lab research. If that's not something that interests you (and it sounds like the OP wants to get out of research) than law school would be a good way to increase opportunities in other areas.

Just because you love science doesn't mean you love working in a lab.

[chuckbass]

I think a lot of people are missing that from a science background, all you are really qualified to do is lab research. If that's not something that interests you (and it sounds like the OP wants to get out of research) than law school would be a good way to increase opportunities in other areas.

Just because you love science doesn't mean you love working in a lab.

Then why would OP be looking at getting another science degree?

The only area a law degree opens up is law, and OP sounds a little naive about what that.

[GomuGomuKinsa]

Do you have an idea of what you want to do with a law degree? Honestly I'd just stick with the sciences if you enjoy it. You have no idea if you'll actually like the law until it's too late.

I actually don't mind doing the joint degree whether I can use the degrees together or not. It would be either a J.D./M.S or a five year Ph.D program. The work I do now is only a small portion of what an actual scientist would do and for that reason I am not entirely sure if I would enjoy being a scientist. Like I said, if I had to choose one, I would definitely choose law school. I spoke with scientist working in different areas and professors at a law school trying to figure out what I liked more or if I could somehow reconcile the degrees. I couldn't choose so I am now in the process of trying to figure out how crazy a joint degree might make me.

[GomuGomuKinsa]

I think a lot of people are missing that from a science background, all you are really qualified to do is lab research. If that's not something that interests you (and it sounds like the OP wants to get out of research) than law school would be a good way to increase opportunities in other areas.

Just because you love science doesn't mean you love working in a lab.

Then why would OP be looking at getting another science degree?

The only area a law degree opens up is law, and OP sounds a little naive about what that.

I think the knowledge I obtain would be valuable. We are progressing quite rapidly when it comes to science. We will start seeing a lot of issues pertaining to genetics and the law. I also believe the skills you pick up in law school are transferable.

[GomuGomuKinsa]

I also would like to thank everyone for their input!! its a massive help to me!!

[chuckbass]

I think a lot of people are missing that from a science background, all you are really qualified to do is lab research. If that's not something that interests you (and it sounds like the OP wants to get out of research) than law school would be a good way to increase opportunities in other areas.

Just because you love science doesn't mean you love working in a lab.

Then why would OP be looking at getting another science degree?

The only area a law degree opens up is law, and OP sounds a little naive about what that.

I think the knowledge I obtain would be valuable. We are progressing quite rapidly when it comes to science. We will start seeing a lot of issues pertaining to genetics and the law. I also believe the skills you pick up in law school are transferable.

This forum is full of actual law students. I guarantee you that most would agree with me that you won't gain valuable knowledge or skills from law school, but good luck follow your dreams I guess.

[GomuGomuKinsa]

I think a lot of people are missing that from a science background, all you are really qualified to do is lab research. If that's not something that interests you (and it sounds like the OP wants to get out of research) than law school would be a good way to increase opportunities in other areas.

Just because you love science doesn't mean you love working in a lab.

Then why would OP be looking at getting another science degree?

The only area a law degree opens up is law, and OP sounds a little naive about what that.

I think the knowledge I obtain would be valuable. We are progressing quite rapidly when it comes to science. We will start seeing a lot of issues pertaining to genetics and the law. I also believe the skills you pick up in law school are transferable.

This forum is full of actual law students. I guarantee you that most would agree with me that you won't gain valuable knowledge or skills from law school, but good luck follow your dreams I guess.

Yeah, thanks! I really appreciate you all taking the time to snap me into reality. I do believe I will be working with the law degree and will simply have a science background rather than going into science with a law background. The reason I want to do the joint degree is because I want to work in law. What I meant to say is that if there is that slight chance that I end up going fully into science, I won't regret law school.

[mpellenberger]

I think a lot of people are missing that from a science background, all you are really qualified to do is lab research. If that's not something that interests you (and it sounds like the OP wants to get out of research) than law school would be a good way to increase opportunities in other areas.

Just because you love science doesn't mean you love working in a lab.

Then why would OP be looking at getting another science degree?

The only area a law degree opens up is law, and OP sounds a little naive about what that.

I think the knowledge I obtain would be valuable. We are progressing quite rapidly when it comes to science. We will start seeing a lot of issues pertaining to genetics and the law. I also believe the skills you pick up in law school are transferable.

This forum is full of actual law students. I guarantee you that most would agree with me that you won't gain valuable knowledge or skills from law school, but good luck follow your dreams I guess.

Yeah, thanks! I really appreciate you all taking the time to snap me into reality. I do believe I will be working with the law degree and will simply have a science background rather than going into science with a law background. The reason I want to do the joint degree is because I want to work in law. What I meant to say is that if there is that slight chance that I end up going fully into science, I won't regret law school.

Hey OP - a little late, but I'm in a similar boat to you. Applying for a JD but considering an MS in biochemistry as well. I currently do research with the NIH (medicinal chemistry). I've spoken extensively with patent attorneys and people over at the USPTO and let me tell you - it's inconclusive. The firm that directly handles our molecules ONLY hires those with advanced degrees in hard sciences. So, if you got an MS in genetics, at least somewhere you're 'special.' But, as for myself, I don't think it's necessarily worth my time or at least, I plan to pick my law school first and fill in a joint degree after.

Feel free to PM me if there's more.

[GomuGomuKinsa]

I think a lot of people are missing that from a science background, all you are really qualified to do is lab research. If that's not something that interests you (and it sounds like the OP wants to get out of research) than law school would be a good way to increase opportunities in other areas.

Just because you love science doesn't mean you love working in a lab.

Then why would OP be looking at getting another science degree?

The only area a law degree opens up is law, and OP sounds a little naive about what that.

I think the knowledge I obtain would be valuable. We are progressing quite rapidly when it comes to science. We will start seeing a lot of issues pertaining to genetics and the law. I also believe the skills you pick up in law school are transferable.

This forum is full of actual law students. I guarantee you that most would agree with me that you won't gain valuable knowledge or skills from law school, but good luck follow your dreams I guess.

Yeah, thanks! I really appreciate you all taking the time to snap me into reality. I do believe I will be working with the law degree and will simply have a science background rather than going into science with a law background. The reason I want to do the joint degree is because I want to work in law. What I meant to say is that if there is that slight chance that I end up going fully into science, I won't regret law school.

Hey OP - a little late, but I'm in a similar boat to you. Applying for a JD but considering an MS in biochemistry as well. I currently do research with the NIH (medicinal chemistry). I've spoken extensively with patent attorneys and people over at the USPTO and let me tell you - it's inconclusive. The firm that directly handles our molecules ONLY hires those with advanced degrees in hard sciences. So, if you got an MS in genetics, at least somewhere you're 'special.' But, as for myself, I don't think it's necessarily worth my time or at least, I plan to pick my law school first and fill in a joint degree after.

Feel free to PM me if there's more.

Definitely not late at all! I still would like more people to share the experience they had going through the J.D./ ____ joint degree but all has been helpful so far. I will be Pm-ing you a little later with a couple questions.

[Attax]

Why not just do the MS and then reevaluate if you're still interested in law school after?

If I had to choose one path, I would go to law school hands down.

I felt like this at one point in time. I think the MS can improve your current career prospects based upon your employment history. It is a logical progression from where you are now, and makes more sense than a JD. As someone who went BS Sciences -> Law School -> dropped out to work I can guarantee you the JD looks more negative to STEM employers than positive. I left it off my resume, but if they still found out it often became "why would you want to leave law school and do this?!" People put the lay prestige of law on you and think that you don't want to do science.

I'd highly advise against the joint degree. Get the MS and then, as chuckbass suggests, go to law school if being a geneticist is still not something you want to do. But going to law school, if there's even a slight chance you return to the science world, is the wrong decision until you know you want to do law and abandon science.