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1L Contemplating Dropping Out
Posted: Thu Apr 23, 2015 8:29 pm
by lost0L
Hi, I'm at CCN and considering dropping out of law school. My best grade is a B, and the rest are a B- or C. I plan on sticking it out the rest of the semester to see what happens for my last set of grades, but I'm not feeling too confident. Assuming the rest of my grades aren't higher than a B, is it worth it to continue? Goal is big law or government. K-JD, white, male. Thanks.
Re: 1L Contemplating Dropping Out
Posted: Thu Apr 23, 2015 8:31 pm
by ManoftheHour
As others have told me, it's halftime.
Contemplating dropping out is for after you get your grades.
Re: 1L Contemplating Dropping Out
Posted: Thu Apr 23, 2015 8:34 pm
by Nomo
Depends on what your goals/interests are and how much money the next two years will cost you.
Re: 1L Contemplating Dropping Out
Posted: Thu Apr 23, 2015 8:43 pm
by k5220
I'm at a CCN and I know a couple people with first semester grades that bad (no C's but all B-'s) who ended up fine. Do you still want to practice law? If you do, you should figure out what went wrong first semester and work really hard to fix it. Speak with professors, pay attention to the way good exam answers from previous years were structured, take different practice exams and see if you can structure your answer in a similar way, make your own outlines. There's still plenty of time to get on track if you want to.
Re: 1L Contemplating Dropping Out
Posted: Thu Apr 23, 2015 8:45 pm
by AReasonableMan
Writing this now is a natural reaction to stress. You're stressed over exams, and if you decide to drop out then your stress goes away. However, at this point you've already sunk the cost of the semester. Therefore, the only logical course of action is to try as hard as you can. If you assume you current lot is unacceptable then you can only improve your lot over the next few weeks.
Re: 1L Contemplating Dropping Out
Posted: Thu Apr 23, 2015 9:39 pm
by Clearly
Even if you decide to drop out, waiting till after OCI (which you're 95% of the way to) is obviously the credited response.
Re: 1L Contemplating Dropping Out
Posted: Thu Apr 23, 2015 9:58 pm
by fisheatbananas
AReasonableMan wrote:Writing this now is a natural reaction to stress. You're stressed over exams, and if you decide to drop out then your stress goes away. However, at this point you've already sunk the cost of the semester. Therefore, the only logical course of action is to try as hard as you can. If you assume you current lot is unacceptable then you can only improve your lot over the next few weeks.
Re: 1L Contemplating Dropping Out
Posted: Thu Apr 23, 2015 10:01 pm
by MCFC
I honestly don't know the answer to this question, but what are the costs of at least giving OCi a try in August?
Re: 1L Contemplating Dropping Out
Posted: Fri Apr 24, 2015 12:31 pm
by jbagelboy
if this is CLS (seems very unlikely), yes I'd probably drop out if there's no improvement with spring finals.
if it's NYU -- which I'm assuming it is -- the real concern is the C grade. Figure out what happened there and don't let it happen again in this round of exams.
Re: 1L Contemplating Dropping Out
Posted: Fri Apr 24, 2015 1:16 pm
by k5220
jbagelboy wrote:if this is CLS (seems very unlikely), yes I'd probably drop out if there's no improvement with spring finals.
if it's NYU -- which I'm assuming it is -- the real concern is the C grade. Figure out what happened there and don't let it happen again in this round of exams.
Why would you advise dropping out of Columbia but not NYU? (I think OP's at Columbia)
Re: 1L Contemplating Dropping Out
Posted: Fri Apr 24, 2015 1:24 pm
by rpupkin
k5220 wrote:jbagelboy wrote:if this is CLS (seems very unlikely), yes I'd probably drop out if there's no improvement with spring finals.
if it's NYU -- which I'm assuming it is -- the real concern is the C grade. Figure out what happened there and don't let it happen again in this round of exams.
Why would you advise dropping out of Columbia but not NYU? (I think OP's at Columbia)
I'm assuming it's because NYU professors will give out the occasional C, whereas at CLS a C is so rare that it's more of a mark of shame.
Re: 1L Contemplating Dropping Out
Posted: Fri Apr 24, 2015 1:28 pm
by k5220
rpupkin wrote:k5220 wrote:jbagelboy wrote:if this is CLS (seems very unlikely), yes I'd probably drop out if there's no improvement with spring finals.
if it's NYU -- which I'm assuming it is -- the real concern is the C grade. Figure out what happened there and don't let it happen again in this round of exams.
Why would you advise dropping out of Columbia but not NYU? (I think OP's at Columbia)
I'm assuming it's because NYU professors will give out the occasional C, whereas at CLS a C is so rare that it's more of a mark of shame.
NYU professors don't give out C's either. Zero were given out in my section 1L year, and no professor gave out more than 4% B-'s.
Re: 1L Contemplating Dropping Out
Posted: Fri Apr 24, 2015 1:35 pm
by rpupkin
k5220 wrote:NYU professors don't give out C's either. Zero were given out in my section 1L year, and no professor gave out more than 4% B-'s.
Then I'm not sure what Jbagel meant. I'll let him explain.
I suspect that the OP is at Chicago and got a grade that he/she believes is the equivalent of a C. OP: I'm not trying to out you, but the fact that you go to Chicago really matters here. Trust me, some employers won't realize that your 172 (or whatever) is a C. And even though I know that (I see a fair number of U of C transcripts), I just don't find that the number has the same visceral effect as a C or a LP. It's stupid but I really do think that Chicago's wacky numeric grading system helps its bottom-of-the-class students a bit.
Re: 1L Contemplating Dropping Out
Posted: Fri Apr 24, 2015 3:13 pm
by jbagelboy
Rpupkin described my thinking right. At NYU professors will give a B- to a student who performs near the bottom of the class, and a C to a student who really shits the bed on an exam. At CLS, bottom of the class gets a B; a handful of profs give discretionary B- for really, really shitting the bed. You won't get a C unless you basically don't sit for the exam. Jody Kraus gave a student a C last year and that student dropped out; that's the only C I've heard of since 2013 (other professors used to give them more frequently before the revised grading structure.
Since more B- and C are given out at NYU, it's presumably more survivable. You could obviously argue the other side but those are my thoughts.
Re: 1L Contemplating Dropping Out
Posted: Sat Apr 25, 2015 4:46 am
by Mack.Hambleton
jbagelboy wrote:Rpupkin described my thinking right. At NYU professors will give a B- to a student who performs near the bottom of the class, and a C to a student who really shits the bed on an exam. At CLS, bottom of the class gets a B; a handful of profs give discretionary B- for really, really shitting the bed. You won't get a C unless you basically don't sit for the exam. Jody Kraus gave a student a C last year and that student dropped out; that's the only C I've heard of since 2013 (other professors used to give them more frequently before the revised grading structure.
Since more B- and C are given out at NYU, it's presumably more survivable. You could obviously argue the other side but those are my thoughts.
holy shit lol, any more to that story?
Re: 1L Contemplating Dropping Out
Posted: Sat Apr 25, 2015 6:32 am
by eriedoctrine
What do you call someone at CLS last in his class?
biglaw associate
the few people I know that attending CLS/NYU who couldn't get an SA were fine with grades. They were just awkward as fk. Also a bit chubby.
Re: 1L Contemplating Dropping Out
Posted: Sat Apr 25, 2015 9:27 am
by 03152016
yea B- is not that uncommon at nyu
the guideline is 4-11%, with a target of 7-8% of each class
if one gets straight Bs, they'll have a 3.0 gpa
if one gets below a 3.0, they received at least one B- or below
oci success rate last year for sub-3.0 was close to 70%
so a B- or two is certainly no death knell
the C is a little scarier
the guideline is 2-5%, but only around 10-15% of profs actually give Cs
and for fall 2014, only one 1L prof gave Cs, and to only 3 students
so that will certainly stand out
also, the highest your gpa could be right now (if your B was civpro) is 2.59
that, unfortunately, has to be in the bottom 10% of the class
talk to ocs over the summer, but right now, go talk to arthur fama
tell him about your grades predicament. tutoring sign-up is over but maybe he can make an exception
Re: 1L Contemplating Dropping Out
Posted: Sat Apr 25, 2015 9:34 am
by MCFC
rpupkin wrote:.
I suspect that the OP is at Chicago and got a grade that he/she believes is the equivalent of a C. OP: I'm not trying to out you, but the fact that you go to Chicago really matters here. Trust me, some employers won't realize that your 172 (or whatever) is a C. And even though I know that (I see a fair number of U of C transcripts), I just don't find that the number has the same visceral effect as a C or a LP. It's stupid but I really do think that Chicago's wacky numeric grading system helps its bottom-of-the-class students a bit.
Still think this might be right.
Re: 1L Contemplating Dropping Out
Posted: Sat Apr 25, 2015 9:36 am
by 03152016
op maybe just say what school you're at
Re: 1L Contemplating Dropping Out
Posted: Sat Apr 25, 2015 10:38 am
by nothingtosee
Brut wrote:yea B- is not that uncommon at nyu
the guideline is 4-11%, with a target of 7-8% of each class
if one gets straight Bs, they'll have a 3.0 gpa
if one gets below a 3.0, they received at least one B- or below
oci success rate last year for sub-3.0 was close to 70%
so a B- or two is certainly no death knell
the C is a little scarier
the guideline is 2-5%, but only around 10-15% of profs actually give Cs
and for fall 2014, only one 1L prof gave Cs, and to only 3 students
so that will certainly stand out
also, the highest your gpa could be right now (if your B was civpro) is 2.59
that, unfortunately, has to be in the bottom 10% of the class
talk to ocs over the summer, but right now, go talk to arthur fama
tell him about your grades predicament. tutoring sign-up is over but maybe he can make an exception
Do they make that guideline info public? If so, that's great
Re: 1L Contemplating Dropping Out
Posted: Sat Apr 25, 2015 11:17 am
by jbagelboy
eriedoctrine wrote:What do you call someone at CLS last in his class?
biglaw associate
the few people I know that attending CLS/NYU who couldn't get an SA were fine with grades. They were just awkward as fk. Also a bit chubby.
Oci protip: hit das gym.
It's actually kind of true.
Re: 1L Contemplating Dropping Out
Posted: Sat Apr 25, 2015 11:51 am
by pancakes3
jbagelboy wrote:eriedoctrine wrote:What do you call someone at CLS last in his class?
biglaw associate
the few people I know that attending CLS/NYU who couldn't get an SA were fine with grades. They were just awkward as fk. Also a bit chubby.
Oci protip: hit das gym.
It's actually kind of true.
And what about my lazy eye?
Re: 1L Contemplating Dropping Out
Posted: Sat Apr 25, 2015 12:03 pm
by jbagelboy
pancakes3 wrote:jbagelboy wrote:eriedoctrine wrote:What do you call someone at CLS last in his class?
biglaw associate
the few people I know that attending CLS/NYU who couldn't get an SA were fine with grades. They were just awkward as fk. Also a bit chubby.
Oci protip: hit das gym.
It's actually kind of true.
And what about my lazy eye?
Keep yo shades on
Kanye does it
Re: 1L Contemplating Dropping Out
Posted: Sat Apr 25, 2015 6:57 pm
by BizBro
OP, don't think about dropping out until you do OCI, or at the very least, get back your 1L spring grades. I didn't know N gave out C's but I would listen to Brut. Still a close to 70% OCI success rate at N for those below 3.0.
Re: 1L Contemplating Dropping Out
Posted: Sat Apr 25, 2015 9:55 pm
by olive16
Stop thinking about dropping out and study for exams; take your exams. Go do OCI.
If you strike out at OCI, cut your losses and drop out.