Top Law Schools

(For the thread stretching from 2009-2013, visit http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... =4&t=88284)

I know IU doesn't have stellar biglaw #'s compared to their ranking, but how well of a shot do students have at firms of medium or large size in Indy?

PhilipBanks wrote:I know IU doesn't have stellar biglaw #'s compared to their ranking, but how well of a shot do students have at firms of medium or large size in Indy?

You'll need to be above median*. That sounds easy, right? Well, it should be obvious enough: literally one out of every two students is not above median.

Beyond that, it's likely that you will need at least one of the following: moot court, journal experience, club leadership.

And, it goes without saying that you need people skills. Interviews matter; no one is hired on grades alone.

* I mean, this is just a rough estimate. Do you have significant ties to Indy? Do you know people who work in Indy MIDLAW and are willing to vouch for you? Can you develop a network in the city? URM? These are all factors that can move the dial, so to speak.

Bear in mind that large firms in Indy are BIGLAW (read: very desirable) and you will be competing with students from Notre Dame, McKinney, and the t14. What makes a firm "medium" sized is subjective. (Also, FWIW, a firm can have 200 attorneys but still practice shitlaw.)

tl;dr - It's very doable, but as you will learn in law school, the answer to a lot of questions is "it depends."

Maybe a few other IU students or alums can chime in.

As an addendum to my earlier post, check out the ATL rankings (based on output, i.e. jobs, and not LSAT/GPA medians): http://abovethelaw.com/careers/2014-law ... -rankings/

IU is ranked #31, ahead of schools like Emory, USC, Minnesota, and W&M.

PhilipBanks wrote:I know IU doesn't have stellar biglaw #'s compared to their ranking, but how well of a shot do students have at firms of medium or large size in Indy?

I know a few people at Maurer. It's tough even for top 25% to get biglaw.
Don't focus on the rankings. A more useful comparison of some schools that were mentioned in this thread.
http://www.lstscorereports.com/compare/ ... c/indiana/

eriedoctrine wrote:

PhilipBanks wrote:I know IU doesn't have stellar biglaw #'s compared to their ranking, but how well of a shot do students have at firms of medium or large size in Indy?

I know a few people at Maurer. It's tough even for top 25% to get biglaw.
Don't focus on the rankings. A more useful comparison of some schools that were mentioned in this thread.
http://www.lstscorereports.com/compare/ ... c/indiana/

Of course, when I mentioned those three other schools, I linked to the ATL rankings, which largely rely on LST info. The ATL rankings take into account the percentage of "school-funded" post-grad jobs. For whatever it's worth, look at how IU compares in that category. (This is why IU outranks W&M, Emory, et. al.)

Baby_Got_Feuerbach wrote:

PhilipBanks wrote:I know IU doesn't have stellar biglaw #'s compared to their ranking, but how well of a shot do students have at firms of medium or large size in Indy?

You'll need to be above median*. That sounds easy, right? Well, it should be obvious enough: literally one out of every two students is not above median.

Beyond that, it's likely that you will need at least one of the following: moot court, journal experience, club leadership.

And, it goes without saying that you need people skills. Interviews matter; no one is hired on grades alone.

* I mean, this is just a rough estimate. Do you have significant ties to Indy? Do you know people who work in Indy MIDLAW and are willing to vouch for you? Can you develop a network in the city? URM? These are all factors that can move the dial, so to speak.

Bear in mind that large firms in Indy are BIGLAW (read: very desirable) and you will be competing with students from Notre Dame, McKinney, and the t14. What makes a firm "medium" sized is subjective. (Also, FWIW, a firm can have 200 attorneys but still practice shitlaw.)

tl;dr - It's very doable, but as you will learn in law school, the answer to a lot of questions is "it depends."

Maybe a few other IU students or alums can chime in.

Totally understand your point about medians, and other variables all factoring into the picture. I realize there's always a chance, I was just wondering how probable a favorable outcome is at IU.

Ideally I would like to get into BigLaw. I do have some ties in Indy, and I've lived in Indiana for a few years now. Schools such as ND and others mentioned competing for a market that isn't incredibly large was a concern of mine as well.

Thank you for your detailed input.

PhilipBanks wrote: Totally understand your point about medians, and other variables all factoring into the picture. I realize there's always a chance, I was just wondering how probable a favorable outcome is at IU.

Ideally I would like to get into BigLaw. I do have some ties in Indy, and I've lived in Indiana for a few years now. Schools such as ND and others mentioned competing for a market that isn't incredibly large was a concern of mine as well.

Thank you for your detailed input.

No problem, PB. My "expertise" at this stage has much more to do with quality of life and the 1L experience, so when it comes to job prospects, I can only parrot TLS wisdom and what I hear in the school hallways. The outcomes of most grads are favorable, by the way, they just may not get what they thought they wanted as a 0L.

Baby_Got_Feuerbach wrote:

PhilipBanks wrote: Totally understand your point about medians, and other variables all factoring into the picture. I realize there's always a chance, I was just wondering how probable a favorable outcome is at IU.

Ideally I would like to get into BigLaw. I do have some ties in Indy, and I've lived in Indiana for a few years now. Schools such as ND and others mentioned competing for a market that isn't incredibly large was a concern of mine as well.

Thank you for your detailed input.

No problem, PB. My "expertise" at this stage has much more to do with quality of life and the 1L experience, so when it comes to job prospects, I can only parrot TLS wisdom and what I hear in the school hallways. The outcomes of most grads are favorable, by the way, they just may not get what they thought they wanted as a 0L.

Good to know! I more than likely will be applying here after I get my LSAT score back here in about a month.

Is the law school as party centric as the rest of IU?

Nonconsecutive wrote:Is the law school as party centric as the rest of IU?

The weekly Bar Reviews are well-attended, absolutely, and there are a group of students who tailgate the football games. Of course there are house parties, too, but you're not going to be getting an invite for three parties a weekend like while a Co-Ed.

Most people get the wild and crazy stuff out of their system before their mid-twenties, which is where most of us are (youngest in our class is 21; oldest is 40). Maybe the students who went to undergrad here still go to undergrad parties; that culture doesn't bleed into the law school. But we have fun.

Baby_Got_Feuerbach wrote:

Nonconsecutive wrote:Is the law school as party centric as the rest of IU?

The weekly Bar Reviews are well-attended, absolutely, and there are a group of students who tailgate the football games. Of course there are house parties, too, but you're not going to be getting an invite for three parties a weekend like while a Co-Ed.

Most people get the wild and crazy stuff out of their system before their mid-twenties, which is where most of us are (youngest in our class is 21; oldest is 40). Maybe the students who went to undergrad here still go to undergrad parties; that culture doesn't bleed into the law school. But we have fun.

Gotcha, I'm quite familiar with B-town and the surrounding area, but actually know very little about Mauer and its culture. Thanks for the inside scoop

BTW is the Chocolate Moose still there?

Nonconsecutive wrote:

Baby_Got_Feuerbach wrote:

Nonconsecutive wrote:Is the law school as party centric as the rest of IU?

The weekly Bar Reviews are well-attended, absolutely, and there are a group of students who tailgate the football games. Of course there are house parties, too, but you're not going to be getting an invite for three parties a weekend like while a Co-Ed.

Most people get the wild and crazy stuff out of their system before their mid-twenties, which is where most of us are (youngest in our class is 21; oldest is 40). Maybe the students who went to undergrad here still go to undergrad parties; that culture doesn't bleed into the law school. But we have fun.

Gotcha, I'm quite familiar with B-town and the surrounding area, but actually know very little about Mauer and its culture. Thanks for the inside scoop

BTW is the Chocolate Moose still there?

Oh, for sure. Favorite flavor? I rotate between banana and "Grasshopper."

Grasshopper is where its at, though when I was feeling cheap (not that their prices were bad anyways) I also could go for one of the chocolate-dipped nanners.

Nonconsecutive wrote:Grasshopper is where its at, though when I was feeling cheap (not that their prices were bad anyways) I also could go for one of the chocolate-dipped nanners.

You may be happy to learn that the bouncers at Sports and Vid haven't changed since you left. Or probably in ten-plus years, for that matter.

Baby_Got_Feuerbach wrote:

Nonconsecutive wrote:Grasshopper is where its at, though when I was feeling cheap (not that their prices were bad anyways) I also could go for one of the chocolate-dipped nanners.

You may be happy to learn that the bouncers at Sports and Vid haven't changed since you left. Or probably in ten-plus years, for that matter.

I don't know if they've ever changed.

.

naschkatze wrote:Hey you guys!

I am hoping you might be of some help because everyone in my family is of no help!
I got accepted to Loyola Chicago with a 96K scholarship (so 9K/year total) and accepted to Indiana University Maurer with a 75K/year scholarship (where I would pay appx 25K/year).

Indiana is ranked in the T30, hence my interest. Plus, I have never lived in a college town and it may be a new experience for me.

But, I would have little-to-no loans if I attend Loyola.
I also already live in Chicago. I am indeed leaning towards Loyola but I am not sure if it is just due to convenience. Would I be committing suicide by not going to a T30?!

I am interested in practicing in Chicago and am looking to get into a big firm here (Latham & Watkins, Skadden, Winston & Strawn etc.)

Any advice is totally appreciated!

t30 isn't a thing

retake for UChicago/Northwestern/Michigan

.

naschkatze wrote:

NYCFAN1 wrote:

naschkatze wrote:Hey you guys!

I am hoping you might be of some help because everyone in my family is of no help!
I got accepted to Loyola Chicago with a 96K scholarship (so 9K/year total) and accepted to Indiana University Maurer with a 75K/year scholarship (where I would pay appx 25K/year).

Indiana is ranked in the T30, hence my interest. Plus, I have never lived in a college town and it may be a new experience for me.

But, I would have little-to-no loans if I attend Loyola.
I also already live in Chicago. I am indeed leaning towards Loyola but I am not sure if it is just due to convenience. Would I be committing suicide by not going to a T30?!

I am interested in practicing in Chicago and am looking to get into a big firm here (Latham & Watkins, Skadden, Winston & Strawn etc.)

Any advice is totally appreciated!

t30 isn't a thing

retake for UChicago/Northwestern/Michigan

Can't retake LSAT b/c of various reasons so I'm dealing with the score that I got!

Then you need to change your goals. You are likely not getting Latham, Skadden or Winston from either. If you are big law or bust don't go to law school. If you are cool just getting a legal job in Chicago, go to Loyola where it is cheaper and you can network while going to school

.

Can't retake LSAT b/c of various reasons so I'm dealing with the score that I got! [/quote]

Then you need to change your goals. You are likely not getting Latham, Skadden or Winston from either. If you are big law or bust don't go to law school. If you are cool just getting a legal job in Chicago, go to Loyola where it is cheaper and you can network while going to school[/quote]

Would I be able to sexure a job in Chicago which pays 78k+ if I am hypothetically highly ranked and network well?[/quote]

Hypothetically. But more likely outcome assuming you are median is between 45 and 60. I am at UIUC and going to one of the firms you listed, but most of my friends are going to be making somewhere between 50 and 70. And that will be the same for Loyola or IU

naschkatze wrote:Hey you guys!

I am hoping you might be of some help because everyone in my family is of no help!
I got accepted to Loyola Chicago with a 96K scholarship (so 9K/year total) and accepted to Indiana University Maurer with a 75K/year scholarship (where I would pay appx 25K/year).

Indiana is ranked in the T30, hence my interest. Plus, I have never lived in a college town and it may be a new experience for me.

But, I would have little-to-no loans if I attend Loyola.
I also already live in Chicago. I am indeed leaning towards Loyola but I am not sure if it is just due to convenience. Would I be committing suicide by not going to a T30?!

I am interested in practicing in Chicago and am looking to get into a big firm here (Latham & Watkins, Skadden, Winston & Strawn etc.)

Any advice is totally appreciated!

Dude, there's a 50% chance you won't even get a real job as an attorney coming out of Loyola. What the hell makes you think you're getting biglaw
http://www.lstscorereports.com/schools/ ... cago/2013/
You need to retake if you want big law. Otherwise expect 45-65k at best coming out of Loyola

If you want an elite firm like L&W, &c., coming out of IU, you'll need to be within the top 1/3* to even get a look, with at least two of the following: i) Moot Court, ii) Indiana Law Journal (our "law review"), iii) leadership post somewhere within the school, i.e., as a "practice group advisor," or on the e-board of a student club, inc. SBA. Oh yeah, and you'll need to interview well.

That's not impossible. And it's more likely than your chances coming out of Loyola. Something like 15% of our class gets legitimate BIGLAW; or, roughly thirty students a year out of ~200. (May I ask why you KNOW you want BIGLAW? How come?)

That does NOT mean it would be a bet worth taking.

This may be an unpopular opinion *but I am not encouraging you to take on needless debt*: the government is making it easier to pay off student loans (see, PAYE, among other programs). All things considered IU may be the better option for you, given that your chances for meaningful employment are much greater. It's also a fun place, for what it's worth.

* - Anecdotally, this varies. I know someone slightly below median who will earn 160k in Chicago after graduation. But this person's resume (not transcript) is impressive. Mostly, this person loaded up on extracurrics and, at one point, was president or vice president of all of them. THEIR STORY IS FAR FROM TYPICAL; IT IS NOT THE NORM.

Baby_Got_Feuerbach wrote:If you want an elite firm like L&W, &c., coming out of IU, you'll need to be within the top 1/3* to even get a look, with at least two of the following: i) Moot Court, ii) Indiana Law Journal (our "law review"), iii) leadership post somewhere within the school, i.e., as a "practice group advisor," or on the e-board of a student club, inc. SBA. Oh yeah, and you'll need to interview well.

That's not impossible. And it's more likely than your chances coming out of Loyola. Something like 15% of our class gets legitimate BIGLAW; or, roughly thirty students a year out of ~200. (May I ask why you KNOW you want BIGLAW? How come?)

That does NOT mean it would be a bet worth taking.

This may be an unpopular opinion *but I am not encouraging you to take on needless debt*: the government is making it easier to pay off student loans (see, PAYE, among other programs). All things considered IU may be the better option for you, given that your chances for meaningful employment are much greater. It's also a fun place, for what it's worth.

* - Anecdotally, this varies. I know someone slightly below median who will earn 160k in Chicago after graduation. But this person's resume (not transcript) is impressive. Mostly, this person loaded up on extracurrics and, at one point, was president or vice president of all of them. THEIR STORY IS FAR FROM TYPICAL; IT IS NOT THE NORM.

This is bad advice. To even get a look from a firm like Latham and Watkins, you'd need to be in the top 10% at IU. If you really want an elite law firm, you don't go to any non-t14. Yeah, you could luck out, but you more than likely will not. And the government may change PAYE and other programs so the debt is not worth it