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Posted: **Tue Oct 21, 2014 6:09 pm**

I know that graduates who go into government jobs start off in the ~60k a year range. What I haven't read too much about though is pay after getting a few years of experience. Can those accepted to government honor programs, JAG or something like the presidential management fellowship expect to get into the 6-figure range somewhat early in their careers? Can they ever expect to?

Posted: **Tue Oct 21, 2014 7:00 pm**

I suspect the answer will be "it depends on the job", but I'm also interested in this. TLS as a whole sort of handwaves public service jobs with, "Yeah, but you'll only make 50k a year" as though starting salaries are eternal. Even if the question is too broad for a definitive answer, I'd be interested in hearing some anecdotes.

Oh, and JAG attorneys are paid like any other military officer with their rank and years of service. There's no separate pay scale.

Posted: **Tue Oct 21, 2014 7:08 pm**

TheSpanishMain wrote: Oh, and JAG attorneys are paid like any other military officer with their rank and years of service. There's no separate pay school.

Oh yeah, sorry about that. I guess I meant salary for jobs after the initial 4 year commitment if you choose not to re-up. Granted, I know that is wayyyyy too broad for a good answer. Just sort of wondering, for this part of my post, if 4 years of JAG qualifies someone for those $120k+ attorney jobs on USAJobs that I've seen.

Posted: **Tue Oct 21, 2014 7:28 pm**

Totally depends on the organization and the state. its certainly not impossible to get to 100k in 5 years at a number of places but I don't know if that is the norm. I think most prosecutor and public defender offices get you to at least 70k in 5 years.

Posted: **Tue Oct 21, 2014 7:33 pm**

In the vast majority of federal government attorney jobs you will be a GS-14 attorney if you are 3 years out. That means in DC, approximately $110,000 with a bit more in SF and NY and a bit less in lower cost of living areas. Five years out it'll depend on your agency's policy on promotions to GS-15 but would be between 110 and 125k. If you are not in an attorney position (e.g. most PMFs), the salary could be identical to attorneys or a lot lower depending on the maximum grade your position is classified at. Note that a small minority of agencies start attorneys at GS-9 instead of GS-11 meaning it will take you a year longer to get the six figure salary. A small minority of agencies also start you higher, e.g. GS-12, meaning it will take you a year less. And other federal agencies follow their own pay scales which are generally a lot higher than the GS scale. But for the vast majority, the 3 years to GS-14 progression is accurate.

Posted: **Tue Oct 21, 2014 7:37 pm**

My understanding is that with the DOJ and SEC you'll be close to 100k in 5 years. PMF jobs generally won't get you to 100k in the first 10 years unless you get some promotions. Most, but not all, state government jobs will take 10+ years to get to 100k. Though some states like NY pay a lot more. Fortunately most states post their salary scales on the internet somewhere, so you can normally figure out what you'll be looking at your first few years.

Non-profit jobs rarely pay 100k even after 10+ years.

Posted: **Tue Oct 21, 2014 7:41 pm**

Nomo wrote:My understanding is that with the DOJ and SEC you'll be close to 100k in 5 years. PMF jobs generally won't get you to 100k in the first 10 years unless you get some promotions. Most, but not all, state government jobs will take 10+ years to get to 100k. Though some states like NY pay a lot more. Fortunately most states post their salary scales on the internet somewhere, so you can normally figure out what you'll be looking at your first few years.

Non-profit jobs rarely pay 100k even after 10+ years.

I'm a current fedgov attorney and this is not accurate at all for federal jobs. DOJ takes 3 years unless you are a poor performer, and SEC pays much higher than DOJ so I assume it will be faster. Also for most PMFs you will be at 100k long before 10 years but likely several years behind attorneys depending on your position classification.

Posted: **Tue Oct 21, 2014 8:32 pm**

You move up fairly quickly, but for the feds you get capped at $155 - and in state/muni it's usually capped around $180.

Posted: **Tue Oct 21, 2014 9:24 pm**

Thanks for the replies everyone, very helpful information.

Posted: **Tue Oct 21, 2014 9:40 pm**

JAG salaries can be confusing for people who don't know what to look for because people tend to look at only the base pay which is just a part of compensation.

http://militarypay.defense.gov/mpcalcs/ ... s/RMC.aspx

A JAG with 4 years of experience living in DC would make the following:
$65,390.40 (O-3 base pay at 7 years; you get 3 years credit for law school)
$25,164.00 BAH (Single Housing Allowance for DC)
$2,686.08 (BAS- allowance for food basically)
This totals $93,240.48

Since both BAH and BAS are tax free allowances, the Army calculates that you would save $9,676 on taxes but this is obviously dependent on how you do your taxes. The Army thus claims a compensation package of $102,916.50 a year.

You get more money if you are married or have kids, and for a couple other random things but less money if you are stationed in the middle of no where.

So JAG does not pay too badly but I would not recommend it to anyone who is in it for the money.

Posted: **Tue Oct 21, 2014 9:59 pm**

For a state example:
Texas Attorney General I
Texas Attorney General II
Texas Attorney General III
Texas Attorney General IV
Texas Attorney General V
Texas Attorney General VI
Texas Attorney General VII

Note that the number does not equal the number of years (except that AG I means baby lawyer and most second-year lawyers are AG II). For example, an AG IV I know (among the top paid AG IVs) has been licensed 11 years and an AG III I know (also among the top paid AG IIIs) has been licensed 10 years.

Also note that the tenure stat can be weird for some people who worked for the state -- e.g. at the legislature -- before they went to law school. That's why you might see an AG II with 10-20 years tenure.

And most, if not all, of the AAG VIIs are division chiefs or similar (e.g. agency general counsel).

Posted: **Tue Oct 21, 2014 10:00 pm**

I currently work for a fed agency. I started at 52k, will move to 62k once I get sworn in, and will be at 75k a year after that. Five years out I will be at 85k if I do not get any promotions, which I really hope is not the case. I know I will never make as much money as some of the private sector lawyers, but for me vacation, pension, 5% tsp matching, and loan forgiveness make up for that.

Posted: **Tue Oct 21, 2014 10:50 pm**

Perplexed Penguin wrote:I currently work for a fed agency. I started at 52k, will move to 62k once I get sworn in, and will be at 75k a year after that. Five years out I will be at 85k if I do not get any promotions, which I really hope is not the case. I know I will never make as much money as some of the private sector lawyers, but for me vacation, pension, 5% tsp matching, and loan forgiveness make up for that.

How on earth is GS14 at 85k a year? Even if you're not in a metro, GS14 at "Rest of the United States" is 97k.

I get the very strong sense that your experience is abnormal.

edit> Also, welcome back from a very long leave of absence.

Posted: **Tue Oct 21, 2014 11:34 pm**

Perplexed Penguin wrote:I currently work for a fed agency. I started at 52k, will move to 62k once I get sworn in, and will be at 75k a year after that. Five years out I will be at 85k if I do not get any promotions, which I really hope is not the case. I know I will never make as much money as some of the private sector lawyers, but for me vacation, pension, 5% tsp matching, and loan forgiveness make up for that.

Is your position's promotion potential GS-12? I've been in government for several years and have never heard of such a low cap for an attorney position. In case you don't know this, you will get promoted a grade every year so long as your performance is at least "meets expectations" and your position has a promotion potential higher than your current grade. You should double check what that promotion potential is since it's highly unlikely to be GS-12. If you're at GS-12 after five years, you will literally be one of the lowest paid attorneys with that much experience in the entire federal government. If you spend more than a year as a 12 you should try to move to a different agency since at most places you would be a candidate for a GS-15 position by the time you are five years in.

Posted: **Wed Oct 22, 2014 7:07 am**

Yea I cap out at gs-12 for automatic promotions. I can go up to gs-15 as an attorney here it is just not automatic. I know its abnormal and I hope that I can move to a different agency at some point.

Posted: **Wed Oct 22, 2014 7:26 am**

lapolicia wrote:In the vast majority of federal government attorney jobs you will be a GS-14 attorney if you are 3 years out. That means in DC, approximately $110,000 with a bit more in SF and NY and a bit less in lower cost of living areas. Five years out it'll depend on your agency's policy on promotions to GS-15 but would be between 110 and 125k. If you are not in an attorney position (e.g. most PMFs), the salary could be identical to attorneys or a lot lower depending on the maximum grade your position is classified at. Note that a small minority of agencies start attorneys at GS-9 instead of GS-11 meaning it will take you a year longer to get the six figure salary. A small minority of agencies also start you higher, e.g. GS-12, meaning it will take you a year less. And other federal agencies follow their own pay scales which are generally a lot higher than the GS scale. But for the vast majority, the 3 years to GS-14 progression is accurate.

+1

And to add a little more insight -- once you're in the GS system you can apply for higher GS positions without as much red tape -- if you've proven you are a hard worker - it's realistic to "apply" up.

Posted: **Wed Oct 22, 2014 8:20 am**

twenty wrote:
Perplexed Penguin wrote:I currently work for a fed agency. I started at 52k, will move to 62k once I get sworn in, and will be at 75k a year after that. Five years out I will be at 85k if I do not get any promotions, which I really hope is not the case. I know I will never make as much money as some of the private sector lawyers, but for me vacation, pension, 5% tsp matching, and loan forgiveness make up for that.
How on earth is GS14 at 85k a year? Even if you're not in a metro, GS14 at "Rest of the United States" is 97k.

I get the very strong sense that your experience is abnormal.

edit> Also, welcome back from a very long leave of absence.

Maybe he forgot to include locality pay

Posted: **Thu Oct 23, 2014 1:05 am**

http://www.opm.gov/policy-data-oversigh ... -schedule/

http://milpaychart.com/2014-military-pay-chart/

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