Taking the Patent Bar before Law School Forum

[p1921]

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[patogordo]

go for it. it's not that hard but you will have a hard time finding study time once you start working.

[androstan]

Yeah there is no better time to do it.

[Dr. Review]

Background- I will graduate undergrad in the spring 2015 with a BS in biochemistry. I'd like to eventually end up in a midsize or boutique firm, hopefully working in the biotech/biochemical world. I have significant UG research experience and will have two papers published by the time I graduate.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated, thanks in advance.

My advice is to go get at least a masters degree in that area before law school. Having a BS in biochem won't get you very far in the midsize/boutique arena in the biotech/biochemical world. It honestly does not matter if you can or cannot do the work, it's much more about whether you are marketable in that role. With a BS, you aren't.

As to your original question, 0L is a good time to take it. 1L summer is also a good time. While many firms don't require it, it can really only help you to have it done before your work seach begins.

[clintone88]

I would STRONGLY recommend listening to bedsole's advice. Look through patent job postings like http://patentlyo.com/jobs and see how many you find that want a BS in any bio/chem position. There are none. You need a Master's to even have a chance, but really without a PhD you will have a huge uphill battle. You don't want to waste 3 years and a lot of money on law school only to find out you cannot get a job as a patent attorney anywhere.

Unfortunately things like research experience in undergrad do not matter. Firms want to show their clients that their bio attorneys have PhDs, it is simply a matter of having the title, not whether or not you can do the work.

[Dr. Review]

I would STRONGLY recommend listening to bedsole's advice.

If it strengthens my position any, I am a chemical patent attorney.

You need a Master's to even have a chance, but really without a PhD you will have a huge uphill battle.

And not just any master's degree. The PhD that I work with actually says that it's somewhat of a red flag to him if the master's isn't a research-based one.

[coldsteady]

Do it. This may contradict the general consensus regarding the USPTO registration exam, but I found the entire process enjoyable. Having a registration number before 1L probably can't hurt when you are seeking a summer associateship down the road. The "patent bar" isn't difficult if you give the exam its just due and prepare adequately. I think the reason the first-time pass rate is so low is many engineers/scientists are unaccustomed to this type of exam and wrongly assume their problem-solving skills are enough to get the job done.

I will second Bedsole's advice here. You really should earn at least a M.S. with a heavy research component before entering the field. I am not an attorney (yet), but I am an experienced chemistry Ph.D. who has had opportunities to join law firms as an agent since passing the USPTO exam. (Instead, I have chosen to attend law school in order to maximize my opportunities in the field.) I can tell you that the attorneys with whom I have spoken over the past year or so would not have entertained the thought of bringing me onboard if I only had a B.S. This is purely anecdotal, of course, and you will no doubt find patent attorneys in chem/biochem without research degrees. It just seems like your chances are so much better if you follow Bedsole's advice.

Good luck to you!

[p1921]

Thanks for the advice all, I appreciate it. I'm not sold on patent law, and it sounds like it probably isn't practical at this point. With that in mind, would it hurt me to have the patent bar on my resume when looking into other specialties, such as oil and gas, things like that? I've seen in various forums that having passed the patent bar restricts your chances in other areas. Is this true?

[Jchance]

would it hurt me to have the patent bar on my resume when looking into other specialties, such as oil and gas, things like that?

You can always leave your reg number off your resume when u apply for other jobs. No one will know.

[GOATlawman]

Thanks for the advice all, I appreciate it. I'm not sold on patent law, and it sounds like it probably isn't practical at this point. With that in mind, would it hurt me to have the patent bar on my resume when looking into other specialties, such as oil and gas, things like that? I've seen in various forums that having passed the patent bar restricts your chances in other areas. Is this true?

Yes it will absolutely hurt you.

if you don't want to IP but have a strong science background, you will need to do everything possible to convince your interviewer that 1. IP sucks, and 2. you just LOOOOOVE M&A/etc. Definitely don't want him to know you have a registration #

OTOH, IP isn't so bad

And I would just self study for the patent bar now if you have the time. I probably wouldnt spend the $1700 on PLI if you don't want to do patent pros, but the time and $300 or whatever for the test if you pass is probably worth it for a slim chance at a fall-back option into IP if nothing else pans out during LS

[p1921]

Thanks for the advice all, I appreciate it. I'm not sold on patent law, and it sounds like it probably isn't practical at this point. With that in mind, would it hurt me to have the patent bar on my resume when looking into other specialties, such as oil and gas, things like that? I've seen in various forums that having passed the patent bar restricts your chances in other areas. Is this true?

Yes it will absolutely hurt you.

if you don't want to IP but have a strong science background, you will need to do everything possible to convince your interviewer that 1. IP sucks, and 2. you just LOOOOOVE M&A/etc. Definitely don't want him to know you have a registration #

OTOH, IP isn't so bad

And I would just self study for the patent bar now if you have the time. I probably wouldnt spend the $1700 on PLI if you don't want to do patent pros, but the time and $300 or whatever for the test if you pass is probably worth it for a slim chance at a fall-back option into IP if nothing else pans out during LS

Seems like Jchance makes a good point though. I can always just leave off my reg. number when applying for other positions. Is that not the case?

[GOATlawman]

Yes certainly. Will all come down to your 1l summer job. Reg # will help a lot getting a well paying IP job for 1L summer, but this will make it extremely difficult to leave IP at OCI for 2L summer.

Having a Reg # is obv neutral (assuming left off resume) for other jobs.

[p1921]

Makes sense. Thanks for the advice.

[mecarey]

And I would just self study for the patent bar now if you have the time. I probably wouldnt spend the $1700 on PLI if you don't want to do patent pros, but the time and $300 or whatever for the test if you pass is probably worth it for a slim chance at a fall-back option into IP if nothing else pans out during LS

I'm finding it very difficult to find anything (even anecdotal) on successful study methods that aren't PLI. Is there anyone on here that did self study that DIDN'T use PLI? Any tips and references you'd like to share?

[Dr. Review]

And I would just self study for the patent bar now if you have the time. I probably wouldnt spend the $1700 on PLI if you don't want to do patent pros, but the time and $300 or whatever for the test if you pass is probably worth it for a slim chance at a fall-back option into IP if nothing else pans out during LS

I'm finding it very difficult to find anything (even anecdotal) on successful study methods that aren't PLI. Is there anyone on here that did self study that DIDN'T use PLI? Any tips and references you'd like to share?

I didn't use PLI, but I did use a different course that was also expensive.
This site has a lot of the old questions, but I don't think it has anything after the test changed, so YMMV on how accurate it is. Other than answering ~2000 practice questions, you're basically on your own with the MPEP.

[Attax]

FWIW regarding 1L employment, I don't have a reg number and the one firm I applied to that doesn't do IP autodinged me. All the others were fine because I was targeting IP.

[Dr. Review]

I think that having a reg number is more useful for 2L hiring than 1L, but that NOT having it shouldn't be a significant hurdle for either. If you find yourself in the vale during 3L, that's the best time to have it in hand.

[fats provolone]

just do patbarquestions and there are some other repositories of prior questions. understand the MPEP, particularly what chapters things are in so you can search the PDFs quickly on the exam.

[p1921]

FWIW regarding 1L employment, I don't have a reg number and the one firm I applied to that doesn't do IP autodinged me. All the others were fine because I was targeting IP.

Are you saying you were autodinged because they knew you were targeting IP and they didn't have an IP department? As opposed to being dinged because you didn't have a reg number.

[Freebot]

It is highly improbable that you will make it into patent prosecution with a BS in Biochemistry. Either get a PhD before law school, focus on patent litigation, or go for a different legal specialty.

[Attax]

FWIW regarding 1L employment, I don't have a reg number and the one firm I applied to that doesn't do IP autodinged me. All the others were fine because I was targeting IP.

Are you saying you were autodinged because they knew you were targeting IP and they didn't have an IP department? As opposed to being dinged because you didn't have a reg number.

I was autodinged b/c they probably knew I was targeting IP. My resume is very IP heavy and focused, and I didn't put too much work into the CL to convince them otherwise. I've had plenty that I targeted IP get back to me despite not having a reg number (but I'm also more focused on lit than prosecution).